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[D.Kain]

 Last time, just because I’m a little weak willed, to read through all of these pages and contain thoughts, and I read it all. 

I’m going to make a list of statements with answers here: 

Disclaimer: I am not indoctrinated by Morinth, she is a fictional character.

S: Morinth is an evil remorseless murderer. She kills innocents. 
A: Morinth doesn’t show remorse because she knows what she is doing and because she was deeply offended. She was to live in a ‘comfortable’ prison, or be killed, even thought she hasn’t done anything wrong yet. She doesn’t care for other peoples lives because nobody cared about her life, what comes around goes around. Samara and the rest of the asari are responsible for her cold attitude towards other people. Now if Shepard cares about Morinth, she actually has someone else to care about, and will probably grasp more in time. 

S: Morinth had a chance to live in seclusion and not kill anybody, she chose to be a killer. Morinth get’s high by killing other people, and that’s all she want’s. She will never change.
A: Morinth chose freedom, the fact that she became a killer is Samara’s and asari culture response ability because they didn’t want to accept her fro what she is. She kills because she want’s to survive, because she need power to fight back to strong justicars with decades of training and a whole bunch of other people in the galaxy, since she is all alone. Morinth get’s power by killing other people, it brings her closer to her goal, which is to kill her pursuers and survive. Now that that is out of the way, there are a lot of directions her life can take. 

S: Morinth could have just run away and hide, live celebate, then Samara would never find her because the killings are one of a few reasons Samara get’s Morinth’s trail.
A: Running away isn’t freedom. Living underground is not freedom. Morinth wanted to experience life in it’s fullest ( And having sex is not what I mean by that ). She wanted to listen to music, visit interesting places, meet other people. Now Morinth’s killings is not the ONLY thing that get’s Samara on her tail, Samara and the justicars also have other sources of information, and Morinth would live decades in fear of being discovered. If she would have friends, those could also easily turn her in.

S: Morinth once inslaved a whole village of people. That is evil! Why did she do that?
A: Perhaps the village knew she was and AY and wanted to get rid of her, and she got pissed. Also she was using the villagers to fight off Samara, and perhaps ****** Samara off because Samara was actually the one responsible for those in the village she killed, since it all could have been avoided in general, just by letting Morinth alone, before trying to kill her.

S: Morinth enjoys the hunt and she likes to kill people. She is a predator. Listen to what she says in her apartment! She likes a specific type of people.
A: Morinth has been on the run for decades. She probably melded with plenty of people. Just from my gameplay I can say that my Shepard was nothing like Nef, or Nef was actually some sort of thug. Because my Shepard punched turians and was rude to a krogan, and that was what got Morinth’s attention. I can imagine that in 400 years Morinth was just gathering power and it wasn’t so important for her who to meld with. Though it were probably either those that wanted to hurt her or those that sought dangerous dark places, aka clubs with drugs. Now about Morinth’s apartment. Why would Morinth call the ones she melded with opponents? Right! She is not talking about them, she is actually talking about opponents. I can imagine that she came across a lot of people that wanted to hurt her, so she killed them and they weren’t ready for it. The chess also strongly implies that she is talking about Samara, and her plan to deal with her once she has enough power, aka let Samara find her and make her think that she is close to her goal. 

S: Morinth wants to kill Shepard like everyone else, he is just food in her eyes. Morinth is a sociopath.
A: Well firstly, Shepard is the only person that was nice to Morinth. Secondly Samara is dead and Morinth has that rock of her shoulders, so she would probably want to stop needles killing for awhile or make some other use of her powers for Shepard. What is important though is that Morinth felt something for Shepard and wanted to be close. But she waited for the end of mission, she had doubts, and she asked Shepard, and it would be a stupid move to kill a commander of the ship, because it is a suicide. And no the scene doesn’t prove anything, and go rewatch it again, because she smiles BEFORE Shepard dies, and then it’s sad in the end, and I watched that scene plenty of times. Morinth isn’t a sociopath, I just believe that care has to be mutual for it to actually work, the relationship has begun. 

Q: Why would you choose Morinth over Samara in general? 
A: 1) I am a renegade and Samara get's pissed at me.
2) I don't like Samara too! lol
3) Morinth is better looking and has a better voice, a shame we don't hear it more often. 
4) Morinth is potentialy a stronger biotic.
5) Morinth's other skills could be useful, if Bioware let's us use those in roleplay.
6) Morinth seems like the most loyal squad mate. She is there for Shepard and not the mission, She minds her own business, she is grateful in general.
7) I want to know more about Ardat-Yakshi in general, and there probably won't be any more in ME3, so I want to keep this one alive. Samara is a bad source.
8) Morinth is a very attractive character because she is strong and weak at the same time. I want to give her a hug and I want to have her at my side because she is a badass biotic and killer, and she seems like an inteligent person that I could have interesting conversations with if Bioware will expand her in ME3. She is the most bold but rational character on the ship. She feels attraction for Shepard.
9) I want to see what direction Morinth is going to take after all of these events in her life. 
10) There might be some interesting plot twists that involve Morinth in ME3. 
11) There might actually appear a cure in the future.

Q: Would I myself ever deal/punish/kill Morinth?
A: Yes. 
1) If Morinth was allowed to live like everyone else and wasn’t forced into running or prison or death. But she would start killing anyway. 
2) If, now that a protected her from Justicars, she will continue to kill people that have nothing to do with her case, since survival achieved. 

Done. Sorry if I missed any points here. Have a good day. 

Modifié par D.Kain, 01 octobre 2011 - 08:22 .

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

 Hmmm. Indoctrinated by Morinth? Signs point to yes.^

lol. Come on, you have to agree that these points are if not valid then atleast a valid interpritation. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

D.Kain wrote...

jreezy wrote...

 Hmmm. Indoctrinated by Morinth? Signs point to yes.^

lol. Come on, you have to agree that these points are if not valid then atleast a valid interpritation. 

Not really.  You're making crap up, warping what's seen on the screen and what's said by the characters, and regarding a serial murderer and rapist as more important than her victims. 

[dreman9999]

jreezy wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
I know life in a ****. That thing with most problems in life, it gets better with time. Mornith's condition is not one of the things that get better or goes away. She has it for life. It was the main reason why she choose to live the way she does. That needs to be sympathized, the burden that gave her the push to her decision. Her actions of murder don't need to be sympathized, just that fact that her choice in the matter is limited.

She could have either lived peacefully in seclusion like her sisters or give into her condition and the dangers that come with that decision. She chose the latter. Why do you call her condition a burden? Morinth doesn't seem to think it is. 

YES, she could have live a life forced on her, alianated from the rest of the universe with the only people she could interact with is her sisters, which is limited to the intimacy of family. And yes, she does think is a burden, she make it clear when her mother tell her she always has a choice.

[Killjoy Cutter]

She could have also fled, but not killed.

[D.Kain]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Not really.  You're making crap up, warping what's seen on the screen and what's said by the characters, and regarding a serial murderer and rapist as more important than her victims. 

Ok, so analyzing the game and coming to a conclusion is making crap up..
Is she more important than those she kills? Yes, while she is shown injustice.

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

She could have also fled, but not killed. 

Wrong. I adressed that.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

She could have also fled, but not killed.

If she did that, it would be no different from staying at the monistary... The problem is that she can't have any deep intimacy with anyone because that runs the risk of wanting to have sex. Being that she can be attracted to any race or sex, being in an area with lot of people would be a problem with her. It would be like taking someone who use to be a crack addict, bring him to a room filled with crack, telling him not to have any of it and locking him in.

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 octobre 2011 - 04:51 .

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Not really.  You're making crap up, warping what's seen on the screen and what's said by the characters, and regarding a serial murderer and rapist as more important than her victims. 

Ok, so analyzing the game and coming to a conclusion is making crap up..
Is she more important than those she kills? Yes, while she is shown injustice.

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

She could have also fled, but not killed. 

Wrong. I adressed that.

More like your warping the issue. Yes, she is evil for putting her want over someones need but you cut out the burden she has with her condition. If she tries to make sure no one die form her condition she has to live a life without intimacy.

[D.Kain]

Interesting dreman, you look at it from the other side. You think Morinth really couldn't live in the society successfully if she wasn't hunted?

I think Morinth CAN live a life without melding if not cut off from other life aspects. Controling herself for the people that are nice to her.

Modifié par D.Kain, 01 octobre 2011 - 04:45 .

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

Interesting dreman, you look at it from the other side. You think Morinth really couldn't live in the society successfully if she wasn't hunted?

No, even if she was not hunted. She would indulge herself. In fact I would have to say the best part of her life was when she was worshiped by a village as a god and given sacrifies. She would most likely try to do that to have want she wants and be in a place isolated enough not togain attention.
It was never the fact that she was being hunted that made her act they way she did...It was the burden she has. Trying to be free and not have intimacy would be like serving two different masters.

[BlueMagitek]

D.Kain wrote...

 Last time, just because I’m a little weak willed, to read through all of these pages and contain thoughts, and I read it all. 

I’m going to make a list of statements with answers here: 

Disclaimer: I am not indoctrinated by Morinth, she is a fictional character.

S: Morinth is an evil remorseless murderer. She kills innocents. 
A: Morinth doesn’t show remorse because she knows what she is doing and because she was deeply offended. She was to live in a ‘comfortable’ prison, or be killed, even thought she hasn’t done anything wrong yet. She doesn’t care for other peoples lives because nobody cared about her life, what comes around goes around. Samara and the rest of the asari are responsible for her cold attitude towards other people. Now if Shepard cares about Morinth, she actually has someone else to care about, and will probably grasp more in time. 

S: Morinth had a chance to live in seclusion and not kill anybody, she chose to be a killer. Morinth get’s high by killing other people, and that’s all she want’s. She will never change.
A: Morinth chose freedom, the fact that she became a killer is Samara’s and asari culture response ability because they didn’t want to accept her fro what she is. She kills because she want’s to survive, because she need power to fight back to strong justicars with decades of training and a whole bunch of other people in the galaxy, since she is all alone. Morinth get’s power by killing other people, it brings her closer to her goal, which is to kill her pursuers and survive. Now that that is out of the way, there are a lot of directions her life can take. 

S: Morinth could have just run away and hide, live celebate, then Samara would never find her because the killings are one of a few reasons Samara get’s Morinth’s trail.
A: Running away isn’t freedom. Living underground is not freedom. Morinth wanted to experience life in it’s fullest ( And having sex is not what I mean by that ). She wanted to listen to music, visit interesting places, meet other people. Now Morinth’s killings is not the ONLY thing that get’s Samara on her tail, Samara and the justicars also have other sources of information, and Morinth would live decades in fear of being discovered. If she would have friends, those could also easily turn her in.

S: Morinth once inslaved a whole village of people. That is evil! Why did she do that?
A: Perhaps the village knew she was and AY and wanted to get rid of her, and she got pissed. Also she was using the villagers to fight off Samara, and perhaps ****** Samara off because Samara was actually the one responsible for those in the village she killed, since it all could have been avoided in general, just by letting Morinth alone, before trying to kill her.

S: Morinth enjoys the hunt and she likes to kill people. She is a predator. Listen to what she says in her apartment! She likes a specific type of people.
A: Morinth has been on the run for decades. She probably melded with plenty of people. Just from my gameplay I can say that my Shepard was nothing like Nef, or Nef was actually some sort of thug. Because my Shepard punched turians and was rude to a krogan, and that was what got Morinth’s attention. I can imagine that in 400 years Morinth was just gathering power and it wasn’t so important for her who to meld with. Though it were probably either those that wanted to hurt her or those that sought dangerous dark places, aka clubs with drugs. Now about Morinth’s apartment. Why would Morinth call the ones she melded with opponents? Right! She is not talking about them, she is actually talking about opponents. I can imagine that she came across a lot of people that wanted to hurt her, so she killed them and they weren’t ready for it. The chess also strongly implies that she is talking about Samara, and her plan to deal with her once she has enough power, aka let Samara find her and make her think that she is close to her goal. 

S: Morinth wants to kill Shepard like everyone else, he is just food in her eyes. Morinth is a sociopath.
A: Well firstly, Shepard is the only person that was nice to Morinth. Secondly Samara is dead and Morinth has that rock of her shoulders, so she would probably want to stop needles killing for awhile or make some other use of her powers for Shepard. What is important though is that Morinth felt something for Shepard and wanted to be close. But she waited for the end of mission, she had doubts, and she asked Shepard, and it would be a stupid move to kill a commander of the ship, because it is a suicide. And no the scene doesn’t prove anything, and go rewatch it again, because she smiles BEFORE Shepard dies, and then it’s sad in the end, and I watched that scene plenty of times. Morinth isn’t a sociopath, I just believe that care has to be mutual for it to actually work, the relationship has begun. 

Q: Why would you choose Morinth over Samara in general? 
A: 1) I am a renegade and Samara get's pissed at me.
2) I don't like Samara too! lol
3) Morinth is better looking and has a better voice, a shame we don't hear it more often. 
4) Morinth is potentialy a stronger biotic.
5) Morinth's other skills could be useful, if Bioware let's us use those in roleplay.
6) Morinth seems like the most loyal squad mate. She is there for Shepard and not the mission, She minds her own business, she is grateful in general.
7) I want to know more about Ardat-Yakshi in general, and there probably won't be any more in ME3, so I want to keep this one alive. Samara is a bad source.
8) Morinth is a very attractive character because she is strong and weak at the same time. I want to give her a hug and I want to have her at my side because she is a badass biotic and killer, and she seems like an inteligent person that I could have interesting conversations with if Bioware will expand her in ME3. She is the most bold but rational character on the ship. She feels attraction for Shepard.
9) I want to see what direction Morinth is going to take after all of these events in her life. 
10) There might be some interesting plot twists that involve Morinth in ME3. 
11) There might actually appear a cure in the future.

Q: Would I myself ever deal/punish/kill Morinth?
A: Yes. 
1) If Morinth was allowed to live like everyone else and wasn’t forced into running or prison or death. But she would start killing anyway. 
2) If, now that a protected her from Justicars, she will continue to kill people that have nothing to do with her case, since survival achieved. 

Done. Sorry if I missed any points here. Have a good day. 

And here I thought we were done.

1)  Nobody cared for her life?  Her mother was (from the sounds of the Shadow Broker files) clearly in anguish.  Did her sisters not care for her?  Regardless of what she feels about other people, she isn't justified in killing people who have absolutely nothing to do with how she was treated or her condition. And yes, she has no remorse, you said so yourself.    Yeah, she got screwed as an AY, but that doesn't mean she can go around and slaughter people.

2) Using the same old argument?  I thought we dealt with this. What makes Morinth's life so much more important than everyone elses?  You have yet to give an adequete answer to this.  What gives her the right to amass power by killing innocent people (who once again have nothing to do with her or her condition)?  Asari can mate with damn near everything due to the mind meld; if she really wanted to amass power quickly, why didn't she just take out a zoo?  

3)  Where is your evidence that Samara has alternate sources of information on Morinth's location?  How could Samara find Morinth on Omega if Morinth had not killed anyone?  The only reason you're able to locate her is because she's a murderer.  Wanting more in life doesn't mean you can kill innocent people.

4)  I'm actually saddened that you're serious about this.  What we know is that Morinth took control of the village and made them present her with sacrifices.  Assuming she did it "to ****** off Samara and because the villagers had it coming", is wrong.  It's also wrong to kill someone for their opinion and it's wrong to kill someone to make someone else angry.   And Samara letting Morinth alone so she wouldn't need to kill the villagers?  Yes, let's just allow the monster to go about and take over more villages so we don't have to kill them.  Grand idea.

5)  Once again, we don't allow fanfiction into the discussion.  And no, the chess was not about Samara, it was with other people in general.  She sees others as prey and likes to fool around with them and let them have a chance before killing them.  Or else she wouldn't have minded Samara breaking in.

6)  AHAHAHA! Oh that is funny. But no.  How was Nef cruel to her again?  Oooh, you admit that Morinth goes around needlessly killing people.  And no, she's happy because she's got her prey where she wants him.  Because there is nothing that implies that Shepard would have survived.   She's obviously messing with you.  You don't need to be an admiral to tell that it's a trap.

7)  Those are some nice opinions there.  But no, there would be no cure for AY.  There isn't even a mention of it anywhere.  As opposed to the cure that's being researched for Turians (Garrus' mother is inflicted, I believe) and the cure for Thane's condition.  

8)  So you agree she needs to die?  She does kill Shepard, you know.  Away from the Justicars.  After he protected her. 

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

And here I thought we were done.

1)  Nobody cared for her life?  Her mother was (from the sounds of the Shadow Broker files) clearly in anguish.  Did her sisters not care for her?  Regardless of what she feels about other people, she isn't justified in killing people who have absolutely nothing to do with how she was treated or her condition. And yes, she has no remorse, you said so yourself.    Yeah, she got screwed as an AY, but that doesn't mean she can go around and slaughter people.

2) Using the same old argument?  I thought we dealt with this. What makes Morinth's life so much more important than everyone elses?  You have yet to give an adequete answer to this.  What gives her the right to amass power by killing innocent people (who once again have nothing to do with her or her condition)?  Asari can mate with damn near everything due to the mind meld; if she really wanted to amass power quickly, why didn't she just take out a zoo?  

3)  Where is your evidence that Samara has alternate sources of information on Morinth's location?  How could Samara find Morinth on Omega if Morinth had not killed anyone?  The only reason you're able to locate her is because she's a murderer.  Wanting more in life doesn't mean you can kill innocent people.

4)  I'm actually saddened that you're serious about this.  What we know is that Morinth took control of the village and made them present her with sacrifices.  Assuming she did it "to ****** off Samara and because the villagers had it coming", is wrong.  It's also wrong to kill someone for their opinion and it's wrong to kill someone to make someone else angry.   And Samara letting Morinth alone so she wouldn't need to kill the villagers?  Yes, let's just allow the monster to go about and take over more villages so we don't have to kill them.  Grand idea.

5)  Once again, we don't allow fanfiction into the discussion.  And no, the chess was not about Samara, it was with other people in general.  She sees others as prey and likes to fool around with them and let them have a chance before killing them.  Or else she wouldn't have minded Samara breaking in.

6)  AHAHAHA! Oh that is funny. But no.  How was Nef cruel to her again?  Oooh, you admit that Morinth goes around needlessly killing people.  And no, she's happy because she's got her prey where she wants him.  Because there is nothing that implies that Shepard would have survived.   She's obviously messing with you.  You don't need to be an admiral to tell that it's a trap.

7)  Those are some nice opinions there.  But no, there would be no cure for AY.  There isn't even a mention of it anywhere.  As opposed to the cure that's being researched for Turians (Garrus' mother is inflicted, I believe) and the cure for Thane's condition.  

8)  So you agree she needs to die?  She does kill Shepard, you know.  Away from the Justicars.  After he protected her. 

Ok I'm sorry if this is shoking to you but, I am actually going do disagree. 

In my opinion the fact that Morinth got screwed as an AY, DOES mean that she can go around and slaughter people. But I am talking about a different type of screwment. 

I am going to talk from my own perspective: If I was born a mutant and my parent would tell me that I shouldn't have sex ever, because my partners would die, I could live with that. I would give up sex for other people, granted that other aspects of my life aren't touched. 
Now if my parent told me that I am a desiese that should be purged, and that I would have to be live imprisoned or die, I would stop giving a damn about having to give up sex, and I would run away. 

Morinth life is not more important in universal sense, but I can't blame her for her actions and she is more important to my Shepard because she is a badass squadmate. 

So you think living on Omega is possible on your own if you are not a strong person? And that Morinth would never want to visit more civilized places, where registration is required. And how the heck would she be able to move around undetected if she wasn't a strong biotic and didn't use her abileties at all? You think everybody can work with eclipse? 

Chess is about Samara, that's my opinion. She wasn't ready yet, but it worked out anyway with Shepard.

I don't admit that Morinth kills people needlesly. She kills people needfully. And again village had it comming, and Nef went to the dark club to have fun and use drugs, that is asking for trouble.

I told you that she doesn't want to kill Shepard and that it is an unfortunate accident if you agree.

I also said what would change my opinion on her life. If that happens in ME3 I will deal with her. 

I could actiually hear your words from Samara's mouth to Morinth too: The fact that we screwed you over doesn't give you the right to kill people! The fact that I am going to kill you or imprison you doesn't mean that you can live like you do! The fact that society doesn't accept you doesn't mean that you do not have to do you your best to please that society!

Modifié par D.Kain, 01 octobre 2011 - 06:24 .

[D.Kain]

dreman9999 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Interesting dreman, you look at it from the other side. You think Morinth really couldn't live in the society successfully if she wasn't hunted?

No, even if she was not hunted. She would indulge herself. In fact I would have to say the best part of her life was when she was worshiped by a village as a god and given sacrifies. She would most likely try to do that to have want she wants and be in a place isolated enough not togain attention.
It was never the fact that she was being hunted that made her act they way she did...It was the burden she has. Trying to be free and not have intimacy would be like serving two different masters.

Well, if she proves to be like that in ME3 I will deal with her. I don't think it is so though.

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Interesting dreman, you look at it from the other side. You think Morinth really couldn't live in the society successfully if she wasn't hunted?

No, even if she was not hunted. She would indulge herself. In fact I would have to say the best part of her life was when she was worshiped by a village as a god and given sacrifies. She would most likely try to do that to have want she wants and be in a place isolated enough not togain attention.
It was never the fact that she was being hunted that made her act they way she did...It was the burden she has. Trying to be free and not have intimacy would be like serving two different masters.

Well, if she proves to be like that in ME3 I will deal with her. I don't think it is so though.

Agreed.

[BlueMagitek]

D.Kain wrote...
Ok I'm sorry if this is shoking to you but, I am actually going do disagree. 

In my opinion the fact that Morinth got screwed as an AY, DOES mean that she can go around and slaughter people. But I am talking about a different type of screwment. 

I am going to talk from my own perspective: If I was born a mutant and my parent would tell me that I shouldn't have sex ever, because my partners would die, I could live with that. I would give up sex for other people, granted that other aspects of my life aren't touched. 
Now if my parent told me that I am a desiese that should be purged, and that I would have to be live imprisoned or die, I would stop giving a damn about having to give up sex, and I would run away. 

Morinth life is not more important in universal sense, but I can't blame her for her actions and she is more important to my Shepard because she is a badass squadmate. 

So you think living on Omega is possible on your own if you are not a strong person? And that Morinth would never want to visit more civilized places, where registration is required. And how the heck would she be able to move around undetected if she wasn't a strong biotic and didn't use her abileties at all? You think everybody can work with eclipse? 

Chess is about Samara, that's my opinion. She wasn't ready yet, but it worked out anyway with Shepard.

I don't admit that Morinth kills people needlesly. She kills people needfully. And again village had it comming, and Nef went to the dark club to have fun and use drugs, that is asking for trouble.

I told you that she doesn't want to kill Shepard and that it is an unfortunate accident if you agree.

I also said what would change my opinion on her life. If that happens in ME3 I will deal with her. 

Totally.

Why?  Why does she get to go around and kill people to feed her addiction?  She doesn't need to kill people to live, she needs to meld (thereby killing people) to get her fix.

And after that would you begin killing people who don't know about your condition and have nothing to dow ith you?

If her life isn't more important than everyone else, then she is at fault for killing all those people.  And while she may be useful to Shepard *now*, that doesn't forgive the 400 or so years of killing.

I don't quite understand what you're asking.  I'll be more specific.  If Morinth hadn't killed anyone with her melding, she would have been undetected by Samara.  She still has normal biotic powers and weapons.  Every other Asari gets along fine with it, if she needs to meld as a crutch, well, she's just weak then. 

I hesitate to tell you your opinion is wrong, but I strongly disagree.  And no, it did not work out with Shepard, I'm afraid.

...So people deserve to die beecause they dislike her?  And Nef deserved to die because she wanted to have fun and possibly use drugs (on Omega, the horror!).   No.  That isn't right at all.  Neither Nef nor the village deserved what Morinth gave to them.  You're a horrible person for believing such a thing. 

So we have your word vs. the game and the lore regarding AY.   The right side wins.

I'm sure you will.

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Totally.

Why?  Why does she get to go around and kill people to feed her addiction?  She doesn't need to kill people to live, she needs to meld (thereby killing people) to get her fix.

And after that would you begin killing people who don't know about your condition and have nothing to dow ith you?

If her life isn't more important than everyone else, then she is at fault for killing all those people.  And while she may be useful to Shepard *now*, that doesn't forgive the 400 or so years of killing.

I don't quite understand what you're asking.  I'll be more specific.  If Morinth hadn't killed anyone with her melding, she would have been undetected by Samara.  She still has normal biotic powers and weapons.  Every other Asari gets along fine with it, if she needs to meld as a crutch, well, she's just weak then. 

I hesitate to tell you your opinion is wrong, but I strongly disagree.  And no, it did not work out with Shepard, I'm afraid.

...So people deserve to die beecause they dislike her?  And Nef deserved to die because she wanted to have fun and possibly use drugs (on Omega, the horror!).   No.  That isn't right at all.  Neither Nef nor the village deserved what Morinth gave to them.  You're a horrible person for believing such a thing. 

So we have your word vs. the game and the lore regarding AY.   The right side wins.

I'm sure you will.

Read the last line I line I added. 

A person that is not accepted by the society is not a part of that society, and doesn't owe that society anything.

When I hear from Morinth that she can't go on without melding, or see it, I will believe that. 

This is basically all that it comes down to. 

[D.Kain]

 Seriously though, I have the right to ask Morinth to be nice. Because I treat her as a person, because I am nice to her. You want her to live in a prison, or to run and hide, or to die. You don't have the right to ask her anything, or wait for her to act good. 

Modifié par D.Kain, 01 octobre 2011 - 06:47 .

[BlueMagitek]

If she doesn't owe the society anything, why does she deserve to take from it? Nef accepted her, she didn't know she was an AY, I doubt she knew what an AY was. And yet she ate her up too.

You hear from Samara, who knows Morinth more than any other person. And if Morinth can go on without melding, she's just a predator who is addicted to her melding.

Nef treated her as a person, look how that went.

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

If she doesn't owe the society anything, why does she deserve to take from it? Nef accepted her, she didn't know she was an AY, I doubt she knew what an AY was. And yet she ate her up too.

You hear from Samara, who knows Morinth more than any other person. And if Morinth can go on without melding, she's just a predator who is addicted to her melding.

Nef treated her as a person, look how that went.

Why do you act like you know Nef? She can be a bitc*h for all I know. All I hear on her journal is mindless worship of Morinth, due to Morinth's hypnotise abilities, most likely. I know that my Shepard acted like a thug boss in the club and got Morinth's attention. Nef could have been anyone until when she lost her head. 
Some mother tears an you are ready to kill anyone, without a second though.. Mother didn't know that Nef was into dark clubs with drugs. 
Morinth sure can go on without melding, that is if she is willing to risk her life to Justicars or other thugs on the galaxy.

[SandTrout]

D.Kain wrote...

S: Morinth is an evil remorseless murderer. She kills innocents. 
A: Morinth doesn’t show remorse because she knows what she is doing and because she was deeply offended. She was to live in a ‘comfortable’ prison, or be killed, even thought she hasn’t done anything wrong yet. She doesn’t care for other peoples lives because nobody cared about her life, what comes around goes around. Samara and the rest of the asari are responsible for her cold attitude towards other people. Now if Shepard cares about Morinth, she actually has someone else to care about, and will probably grasp more in time.

Wrong. She is being hunted to her death because she kills, not because she ran away. If she ran away and did not kill, there would be A) No way to find her, and No motivation to find her. Either way, taking out the unfairness of her condition on innocent people is in no way justified.

S: Morinth had a chance to live in seclusion and not kill anybody, she chose to be a killer. Morinth get’s high by killing other people, and that’s all she want’s. She will never change.
A: Morinth chose freedom, the fact that she became a killer is Samara’s and asari culture response ability because they didn’t want to accept her fro what she is. She kills because she want’s to survive, because she need power to fight back to strong justicars with decades of training and a whole bunch of other people in the galaxy, since she is all alone. Morinth get’s power by killing other people, it brings her closer to her goal, which is to kill her pursuers and survive. Now that that is out of the way, there are a lot of directions her life can take.

Wrong. If she wanted solely to survive, she would not kill, because it is her killings that allow her to be tracked.

S: Morinth could have just run away and hide, live celebate, then Samara would never find her because the killings are one of a few reasons Samara get’s Morinth’s trail.
A: Running away isn’t freedom. Living underground is not freedom. Morinth wanted to experience life in it’s fullest ( And having sex is not what I mean by that ). She wanted to listen to music, visit interesting places, meet other people. Now Morinth’s killings is not the ONLY thing that get’s Samara on her tail, Samara and the justicars also have other sources of information, and Morinth would live decades in fear of being discovered. If she would have friends, those could also easily turn her in.

It's the closest thing she will ever have to freedom because she has already committed multiple counts of murder. If she had simply remained celebate and aquired a new identity, she could have done all those things that don't require her to kill. Samara is chasing her because she is a killer, not because she ran away.

S: Morinth once inslaved a whole village of people. That is evil! Why did she do that?
A: Perhaps the village knew she was and AY and wanted to get rid of her, and she got pissed. Also she was using the villagers to fight off Samara, and perhaps ****** Samara off because Samara was actually the one responsible for those in the village she killed, since it all could have been avoided in general, just by letting Morinth alone, before trying to kill her.

Wrong. Morinth was being worshiped a god/angel/demon/whatever in that village and was asking for their daughters in sacrifice.

S: Morinth enjoys the hunt and she likes to kill people. She is a predator. Listen to what she says in her apartment! She likes a specific type of people.
A: Morinth has been on the run for decades. She probably melded with plenty of people. Just from my gameplay I can say that my Shepard was nothing like Nef, or Nef was actually some sort of thug. Because my Shepard punched turians and was rude to a krogan, and that was what got Morinth’s attention. I can imagine that in 400 years Morinth was just gathering power and it wasn’t so important for her who to meld with. Though it were probably either those that wanted to hurt her or those that sought dangerous dark places, aka clubs with drugs. Now about Morinth’s apartment. Why would Morinth call the ones she melded with opponents? Right! She is not talking about them, she is actually talking about opponents. I can imagine that she came across a lot of people that wanted to hurt her, so she killed them and they weren’t ready for it. The chess also strongly implies that she is talking about Samara, and her plan to deal with her once she has enough power, aka let Samara find her and make her think that she is close to her goal.

Not valid justification for murder, and in general, a bad idea. She could escape Samara much easier by not killing than by killing enough to be able to kill Samara. Not to mention that she would still need to evade legal authorities that want to arrest her for murder.

S: Morinth wants to kill Shepard like everyone else, he is just food in her eyes. Morinth is a sociopath.
A: Well firstly, Shepard is the only person that was nice to Morinth. Secondly Samara is dead and Morinth has that rock of her shoulders, so she would probably want to stop needles killing for awhile or make some other use of her powers for Shepard. What is important though is that Morinth felt something for Shepard and wanted to be close. But she waited for the end of mission, she had doubts, and she asked Shepard, and it would be a stupid move to kill a commander of the ship, because it is a suicide. And no the scene doesn’t prove anything, and go rewatch it again, because she smiles BEFORE Shepard dies, and then it’s sad in the end, and I watched that scene plenty of times. Morinth isn’t a sociopath, I just believe that care has to be mutual for it to actually work, the relationship has begun.

Wrong. You are ignorant of the nature of addiction. Morinth has been going at this for so long that it is highly doubtful that she can break her addiction's hold on her without entering into seclusion similar to what her sisters are in.

Q: Why would you choose Morinth over Samara in general? 
A: 1) I am a renegade and Samara get's pissed at me.
2) I don't like Samara too! lol
3) Morinth is better looking and has a better voice, a shame we don't hear it more often. 
4) Morinth is potentialy a stronger biotic.
5) Morinth's other skills could be useful, if Bioware let's us use those in roleplay.
6) Morinth seems like the most loyal squad mate. She is there for Shepard and not the mission, She minds her own business, she is grateful in general.
7) I want to know more about Ardat-Yakshi in general, and there probably won't be any more in ME3, so I want to keep this one alive. Samara is a bad source.
8) Morinth is a very attractive character because she is strong and weak at the same time. I want to give her a hug and I want to have her at my side because she is a badass biotic and killer, and she seems like an inteligent person that I could have interesting conversations with if Bioware will expand her in ME3. She is the most bold but rational character on the ship. She feels attraction for Shepard.
9) I want to see what direction Morinth is going to take after all of these events in her life. 
10) There might be some interesting plot twists that involve Morinth in ME3. 
11) There might actually appear a cure in the future.

1) Fair enough
2) Fair enough, from an OOC perspective.
3) They look the same, just different outfits. OOC reason in any case.
4) In how many years, and how many lives latter, though? Also, judgeing by powers, Samara is the stronger biotic.
5) The ones she has (evasion, identity obfuscation, ect.) aren't of much use against the Reapers.
6) She's a manipulative sociopath who knows that Shepard can kill her. Of course she is going to pretend to be loyal.
7) Actually, Samara's information seems to be about as good as it gets regarding AY.
8) You place your sympathy poorly.
9) OOC reason as you are preventing the same from Samara.
10) OOC reason as you are preventing the same from Samara.
11) That's a bit of a leap to assume that there is a cure that Shepard can find that the Asari have not been able to for the last however many mellinium.

Q: Would I myself ever deal/punish/kill Morinth?
A: Yes. 
1) If Morinth was allowed to live like everyone else and wasn’t forced into running or prison or death. But she would start killing anyway. 
2) If, now that a protected her from Justicars, she will continue to kill people that have nothing to do with her case, since survival achieved.

There was only ever a justicar after her because she chose to kill. She didn't start killing because there was a Justicar after her.

Done. Sorry if I missed any points here. Have a good day. 

Your points seem to be thurough, but universally flawed.

[AnAccountWithNoName]

D.Kain wrote...

 Seriously though, I have the right to ask Morinth to be nice. Because I treat her as a person, because I am nice to her. You want her to live in a prison, or to run and hide, or to die. You don't have the right to ask her anything, or wait for her to act good. 

I just don't understand you D.Kain.  The way you blame the people who were killed by the Monster, as it being their own fault that they died.  It does not seem right at all.

Although those deaths are just fictional.....it really makes me wonder how do YOU really think?  In the real world, how much value do you have for human life?  Say in RL, you hear on the news that there is a complete monster.  This monster enjoys having sex with people, it just so happens that he kills them every time he has sex.  He knows that this act kills them, but it doesn't matter to the monster for he has no regard for human life, and he puts his lust/happiness (in having sex) over the importance of the lives of other people.

Since this man is a monster and has already killed, and for some reason this "condition" (the urge to kill someone after having sex with said someone) can not be cured.  The reasonable solution is to......

1.  Off him.....aka death row (if this happens in the USA)

2.  Life imprisionment (the more likley option)

Now is that fair to you?  Is not the continued existance of many people, more important then this Man's happiness?  Isn't it right  to lock him up, to make that in the future, more people would not die by his hands?

If you don't believe that, then there is no hope for you, and how much you regard (or lack of) the lives of other people, is perhaps a similarity you share with.......the Monster.



How much "humanity" do you have Mr. Kain?

Modifié par AnAccountWithNoName, 01 octobre 2011 - 07:19 .

[D.Kain]

@Sandtrout I will get to you in a moment. 

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

I just don't understand you D.Kain.  The way you blame the people who were killed by the Monster, as it being their own fault that they died.  It does not seem right at all.

Although those deaths are just fictional.....it really makes me wonder how do YOU really think?  In the real world, how much value do you have for human life?  Say in RL, you hear on the news that there is a complete monster.  This monster enjoys having sex with people, it just so happens that he kills them every time he has sex.  He knows that this act kills them, but it doesn't matter to the monster for he has no regard for human life, and he puts his lust/happiness (in having sex) over the importance of the lives of other people.

Since this man is a monster and has already killed, and for some reason this "condition" (the urge to kill someone after having sex with said someone) can not be cured.  The reasonable solution is to......

1.  Off him.....aka death row (if this happens in the USA)

2.  Life imprisionment (the more likley option)

Now is that fair to you?  Is not the continued existance of many people, more important then this Man's happiness?  Isn't it right  to lock him up, to make that in the future, more people would not die by his hands?

If you don't believe that, then there is no hope for you, and how much you regard (or lack of) the lives of other people, is perhaps a similarity you share with.......the Monster.

How much "humanity" do you have Mr. Kain?

But ofcourse you can both kill him or lock him up. In your scenario the kills came first not after. Morinth case is that it was BEFORE, simple as that. 

If people locked him up before he started killing because they thought that he MIGHT kill, then he would be perfectly justified. 

Modifié par D.Kain, 01 octobre 2011 - 07:24 .