3434 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Aeowyn wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@wiggles89 - it's only a great thought experiment if you agree with it.

We have no indication that Samara would be any more a drone to Shepard than any other NPC squadmate - and that's because it's designed that way.

Even Morinth would "obey" - because the game is not designed to give the NPCs their own free will.

When the game is taken out of the player's absolute control - a self-indulgent fan base cries foul.

====

Yes, I get it - you're enlightened because you want to be free from what you perceive as restricting moral codes - and, so long as everyone else thinks just like you - you're okay with them.

You're very current.

====

As for the punching reporters - you might see that as perfectly acceptable behavior - I see that as an act of a violent animal - I would no more allow a mugger to run free than I would a Shepard that solves problems by assaulting civilians.

And any such persona that argues for compassion for a serial killer - has no real chance for an accord with me (hence - my use of it as a reason for disregarding such opinions)

Eh.... I never punched the reporter or spared Morinth and I still think Samara is a monster. I'm sorry, but killing people because they don't live lives that are acceptable with her black and white code is not justice. 

Edit: As for Alex's post about Shepard killing too. Well you know, Shepard actually has a choice NOT to kill people, it's called the majority of the paragon decisions. Samara is forced to kill someone if they even try to BRIBE her. Yeah, how does bribery = death exactly?

I wouldn't know that Justicars have no choice at all. Their choices may be quite limited by the code, but I really doubt they have no choice. And I doubt they have to kill people who try to bribe them. Any source or did you make that up? Anyway, Spectres may do anything they feel is necessary. Actually Spectres have more of a 'get out of jail' ticket than Justicars, since there is no code that stopps Spectres from making their own law as they go. That makes Spectres less predictable. I mean if you know Justicars and the code then you know how to act to not get into trouble. A Spectre can just kill you for no apparent reason and claim it was necessary.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 26 septembre 2011 - 07:09 .

[Aeowyn]

AlexXIV wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@wiggles89 - it's only a great thought experiment if you agree with it.

We have no indication that Samara would be any more a drone to Shepard than any other NPC squadmate - and that's because it's designed that way.

Even Morinth would "obey" - because the game is not designed to give the NPCs their own free will.

When the game is taken out of the player's absolute control - a self-indulgent fan base cries foul.

====

Yes, I get it - you're enlightened because you want to be free from what you perceive as restricting moral codes - and, so long as everyone else thinks just like you - you're okay with them.

You're very current.

====

As for the punching reporters - you might see that as perfectly acceptable behavior - I see that as an act of a violent animal - I would no more allow a mugger to run free than I would a Shepard that solves problems by assaulting civilians.

And any such persona that argues for compassion for a serial killer - has no real chance for an accord with me (hence - my use of it as a reason for disregarding such opinions)

Eh.... I never punched the reporter or spared Morinth and I still think Samara is a monster. I'm sorry, but killing people because they don't live lives that are acceptable with her black and white code is not justice. 

Edit: As for Alex's post about Shepard killing too. Well you know, Shepard actually has a choice NOT to kill people, it's called the majority of the paragon decisions. Samara is forced to kill someone if they even try to BRIBE her. Yeah, how does bribery = death exactly?

I wouldn't know that Justicars have no choice at all. Their choices may be quite limited by the code, but I really doubt they have no choice. And I doubt they have to kill people who try to bribe them. Any source or did you make that up? Anyway, Spectres may do anything they feel is necessary. Actually Spectres have more of a 'get out of jail' ticket than Justicars, since there is no code that stopps Spectres from making their own law as they go. That makes Spectres less predictable. I mean if you know Justicars and the code then you know how to act to not get into trouble. A Spectre can just kill you for no apparent reason and claim it was necessary.

Talk to the Officer who tells you to take the cab to where Samara is. 

And yes, that makes Spectres less predicatable, but it still doesn't change the fact that they have the choice of freedom that Samara doesn't have. Samara kills without remorse, and no remembering all of her kills is not remorse. 

[AlexXIV]

Aeowyn wrote...

Talk to the Officer who tells you to take the cab to where Samara is. 

And yes, that makes Spectres less predicatable, but it still doesn't change the fact that they have the choice of freedom that Samara doesn't have. Samara kills without remorse, and no remembering all of her kills is not remorse. 

Well it's like the officer's opinion. We don't really know if it is true, and as I said, I doubt it. I'd have to see the line in the justicar codex that says that they have to kill everyone who tries to bribe them. And as I said I think they always have a choice. They are people, not machines. So it is impossible for Justicars to never make mistakes. And that's where choice comes in. I actually even doubt there is one machine/computer out there that does not have one or two flaws.

About remorse. Remorse means to feel bad or guilty if you did something wrong. Justicars do feel that, but they believe that acting according to the letter of the code is always right. So if you don't do anything wrong, why feel guilty? It's not the same as being a psychopath or sociopath who just does not care about other people. It's about having the power to change things for the better and picking the 'lesser evil' choice for the better of all. She certainly does feel bad about killing people, but she believes it is necessary. I doubt she enjoys killing, she thinks it is necessary. I see no difference to Shepard. Despite paragon choices there still die alot of people in Shepard's way. Some of them may have deserved a second chance, but we will never learn that.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 26 septembre 2011 - 07:47 .

[Someone With Mass]

I'm with Grunt on this one.

[AlexXIV]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'm with Grunt on this one.

Grunt's got a crush on FemShep. That's why.

[SandTrout]

This is one of the few Renegade decisions that I think should be punished. It's completely irrational, illogical, and generally just a bad idea.

[ddv.rsa]

SandTrout wrote...

This is one of the few Renegade decisions that I think should be punished. It's completely irrational, illogical, and generally just a bad idea.

Agreed.

[didymos1120]

rapscallioness wrote...

I'm surprised she didn't have a pic collection of her victims after they were dead.

She kept trophies.  That's what a lot of the stuff in her apartment was.

[thatguy212]

SandTrout wrote...

This is one of the few Renegade decisions that I think should be punished. It's completely irrational, illogical, and generally just a bad idea.

Its a judgement call, shepard is looking for the best of the best so that he and his crew have the best chance to destroy the collectors and survive, it doesn't matter what their background is, just that they will increase the odds of success, some people think having someone thats younger and has mind controlling powers is better than a 1000 year old specialized super asari warrior, both are of equal strength so its up to the player to decide which one they think would be better for the mission, either are valid choices, and i can't see how this choice would even be punishable, it not like anyone knows that its actually Morinth and not Samara, and even if they did its not like anyone would really care, the only person that actually wanted Morinth dead was Samara, everyone else just wanted her to go away or stay away from them

[AlexXIV]

thatguy212 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

This is one of the few Renegade decisions that I think should be punished. It's completely irrational, illogical, and generally just a bad idea.

Its a judgement call, shepard is looking for the best of the best so that he and his crew have the best chance to destroy the collectors and survive, it doesn't matter what their background is, just that they will increase the odds of success, some people think having someone thats younger and has mind controlling powers is better than a 1000 year old specialized super asari warrior, both are of equal strength so its up to the player to decide which one they think would be better for the mission, either are valid choices, and i can't see how this choice would even be punishable, it not like anyone knows that its actually Morinth and not Samara, and even if they did its not like anyone would really care, the only person that actually wanted Morinth dead was Samara, everyone else just wanted her to go away or stay away from them

Well maybe all those people who lost family members and friends because of Morinth wanted her dead too. Just an idea. Also, if Shep does not step in the fight between Morinth and Samara, Samara wins. Samara is chasing Morinth while Morinth is playing the run and hide game, another clue that Samara is stronger. If Morinth could imagine to have a chance against Samara, she'd have lured her in a trap earlier. Finally, Samara is bound to Shep by her code, while Morinth would even kill Shepard if he/she lets her. I don't know, but I have to agree with SandTrout. There is no sense in choosing Morinth over Samara unless Shep's a total ass, weak willed, or dislikes Samara for some irrational reason. But then Shep just didn't need to take Samara. It is your choice to pick her up or not to begin with.

[SandTrout]

The problem with choosing Morinth is that I have yet to see anyone present a valid argument as to why she would be the better choice than Samara.

The age difference is a non-issue because the Reapers are going to arrive with a few years, at most.

You have no real reason to believe that Morinth will remain loyal and not jump-ship at the first opportunity, while you have the Justicar's oath from Samara.

We know that they are both roughly comparable in biotic power, so combat aptitude is a non-issue.

I don't see any advantages for choosing Morinth, but I do see potential disadvantages. Yes, it is a judgment call, but I seriously question the judgment of anyone who chooses Morinth for any reason that to see how the game plays if you do.

[didymos1120]

thatguy212 wrote...

...and even if they did its not like anyone would really care, the only person that actually wanted Morinth dead was Samara, everyone else just wanted her to go away or stay away from them

Well, except for, you know, Nef's mom.

[didymos1120]

SandTrout wrote...

We know that they are both roughly comparable in biotic power, so combat aptitude is a non-issue.

Actually, that's not a non-issue.  You have no reason to believe Morinth is as skilled as Samara when it comes to non-biotic combat.

[Someone With Mass]

Yeah, Morinth is a psychotic serial killer/rapist, and you let her aboard your ship filled with people. I can't see how anything good can happen. You're just asking to get someone mind-zapped.

Granted, Samara isn't that much better with her Code, but at least she wouldn't be a direct threat to everyone on the ship.

[SandTrout]

Of all the things Morinth is, she is not a rapist. All of her partners that we know of were consensual.

[AlexXIV]

SandTrout wrote...

Of all the things Morinth is, she is not a rapist. All of her partners that we know of were consensual.

Consensual of having sex, not being consumed by it. But yeah, not exactly rape.

[thatguy212]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, Morinth is a psychotic serial killer/rapist, and you let her aboard your ship filled with people. I can't see how anything good can happen. You're just asking to get someone mind-zapped.

Granted, Samara isn't that much better with her Code, but at least she wouldn't be a direct threat to everyone on the ship.

In all fairness they would be cerberus victims, and being with cerberus is like being a red shirt, its only a matter of time until you die horribly

[didymos1120]

Dunstan wrote...

I thought this would be about the Rachni Queen.
Trusting a monster who's race threatened hundreds of thousands across numerous species seems more punishable than trusting one Ardat Yakshi.

And how exactly is the queen a monster?  She was an egg during the Rachni Wars, and the only thing she ever "did" was get hatched in a Binary Helix lab and forced to produce offspring.  Are you basing that characterization solely on the fact that she looks like a giant arthropod?

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

SandTrout wrote...

Of all the things Morinth is, she is not a rapist. All of her partners that we know of were consensual.

Or not: She did try to take control of my mind whith her powers when I was chatting with her. Doing so (by using drugs) to have sex is considered rape IRL.

[Izhalezan]

AlexXIV wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Of all the things Morinth is, she is not a rapist. All of her partners that we know of were consensual.

Consensual of having sex, not being consumed by it. But yeah, not exactly rape.

She's basically a Succubus. With biotics.

[SandTrout]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

Or not: She did try to take control of my mind whith her powers when I was chatting with her. Doing so (by using drugs) to have sex is considered rape IRL.

True, but the impression that I got was that she only did this to people who clearly wanted to have sex with her in any case, and Shepard does lay it on pretty heavy in order to get Morinth to take him/her to her appartment.