3434 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Kain]

SandTrout wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

It would be better to kill those people, than lock them up then. Or atleast completely sepperate them from society so what nobody feels injust.

You realize that Morinth had this option and rejected it, right?

No she didn't. And scratch sepperate it wouldn't work. 

Wrong (again). She was offered a life of comfort and seclusion, and rejected it. The Asari speficically attempt to separate them from society in a manner that is least unjust to everyone involved.

Kill the AY or let them be free. Other options don't work. Atleast not for everybody. 

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...
HEY you brought THAT up, good. Because I am SO with Anders on that one. 

Anders is a ****ing idiot during Act 3 and if it wasn't because my Hawke romanced him he would be dead.  

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...
Running isn't freedom. How many more time? 

She became a monster because she was ALREDY treated like one.

She was treated like a very very very dangerous person. Dangerous Person =/=Monster

She was treated like a monster for running for freedom.

[1136342t54_]

[quote]D.Kain wrote...
Wrong (again). She was offered a life of comfort and seclusion, and rejected it. The Asari speficically attempt to separate them from society in a manner that is least unjust to everyone involved.
[/quote]

Kill the AY or let them be free. Other options don't work. Atleast not for everybody. 

[/quote]

If Samara's children were killed Samara would likely not stand for that. Even before being a Justicar she could kick some ass. Killing the AY would raise a whole new set of problems. The family would try to save them leaving more alive AY that are on the run who are more likely to kill.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

She was treated like a monster for running for freedom.

Nice goal post.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...
HEY you brought THAT up, good. Because I am SO with Anders on that one. 

Anders is a ****ing idiot during Act 3 and if it wasn't because my Hawke romanced him he would be dead.  

He did everythingg right. If people don't want to live peacefully with innocent mages, then there is no compromise.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...
He did everythingg right. If people don't want to live peacefully with innocent mages, then there is no compromise.

That is retarded. The Circle isn't perfect but you do remember what life was life when there was no circle? Even one of the Bioware Dragon age devs commented on this. There were many many more abominations and monsters roaming the land.

Thedas was very very dangerous place. 

[Arkitekt]

In our penal system, people who are addicted to killing people are jailed and treated in psychological asylums. If there is no cure for this person's disease, then we should protect the society from her "urges".

Because we are discussing something that happens in the 23rd century, we can invent and imagine something novel to do with these people that guarantee the following:

- the dignity of these problematic people (they are still people nevertheless);
- the protection of all others;
- freedom of all involved.

Because these points intersect and are incompatible somewhat, there is space here for creativity.

[D.Kain]

[quote]1136342t54 wrote...

[quote]D.Kain wrote...
Wrong (again). She was offered a life of comfort and seclusion, and rejected it. The Asari speficically attempt to separate them from society in a manner that is least unjust to everyone involved.
[/quote]

Kill the AY or let them be free. Other options don't work. Atleast not for everybody. 

[/quote]

If Samara's children were killed Samara would likely not stand for that. Even before being a Justicar she could kick some ass. Killing the AY would raise a whole new set of problems. The family would try to save them leaving more alive AY that are on the run who are more likely to kill.

[/quote]

Yes instead she was ok with killing one daughter herself and seeing other 2 live in a comfortable prison for the rest of their life, how nice..

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...
Yes instead she was ok with killing one daughter herself and seeing other 2 live in a comfortable prison for the rest of their life, how nice..

Of course she was. There is a difference between killing someone before they did something wrong than killing after they did.


Edit: If you don't know the difference then there is no point in discussing this.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 01 octobre 2011 - 09:34 .

[Arkitekt]

Kain, stopping murders is not a matter of nicety.

[Arcadian Legend]

 Maybe you'll run into another Justicar asking why they haven't heard from Samara in a long time.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...
Yes instead she was ok with killing one daughter herself and seeing other 2 live in a comfortable prison for the rest of their life, how nice..

Of course she was. There is a difference between killing someone before they did something wrong than killing after they did.


Edit: If you don't know the difference then there is no point in discussing this.

But ofcourse I do!!!! That is my argument in the first place. But see it went like this chronologicaly:

1) Morinth is considered murderer and is haunted
2) Morinth actually became a murderer.
3) Samara met Morinth.

[SandTrout]

D.Kain wrote...

Kill the AY or let them be free. Other options don't work. Atleast not for everybody.

Well, Samara set out to kill Morinth, so what's wrong with that? Or do you think that AYs wont try to run from being killed? Comfortable incarceration is better than death for most people. Hell, it's better than freedom for some (who I have little respect for, but that another topic).

For some reason, death is better than a comfortable, protected incarcertion to you, and while I would personally fight and risk my life for freedom, I would also seclude myself if my freedom cost the lives of innocents on a regular basis.

[D.Kain]

Arkitekt wrote...

In our penal system, people who are addicted to killing people are jailed and treated in psychological asylums. If there is no cure for this person's disease, then we should protect the society from her "urges".

Because we are discussing something that happens in the 23rd century, we can invent and imagine something novel to do with these people that guarantee the following:

- the dignity of these problematic people (they are still people nevertheless);
- the protection of all others;
- freedom of all involved.

Because these points intersect and are incompatible somewhat, there is space here for creativity.

So do you punish people that are addicted to before they killed?? 

[D.Kain]

DarkRiku7 wrote...

 Maybe you'll run into another Justicar asking why they haven't heard from Samara in a long time.

Well that will be a long interesting talk, if the Justicar will want to listen, otherwise she woill join Samara.

[D.Kain]

SandTrout wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Kill the AY or let them be free. Other options don't work. Atleast not for everybody.

Well, Samara set out to kill Morinth, so what's wrong with that? Or do you think that AYs wont try to run from being killed? Comfortable incarceration is better than death for most people. Hell, it's better than freedom for some (who I have little respect for, but that another topic).

For some reason, death is better than a comfortable, protected incarcertion to you, and while I would personally fight and risk my life for freedom, I would also seclude myself if my freedom cost the lives of innocents on a regular basis.

Maybe not for you maybe not for everybody but it is EXACTLY what Morinth said, that it is freedom or death for her and that she doesn't want seclusion. She is not alone to think that.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...
But ofcourse I do!!!! That is my argument in the first place. But see it went like this chronologicaly:

1) Morinth is considered murderer and is haunted
2) Morinth actually became a murderer.
3) Samara met Morinth.

Considering that Morinth NEVER HAD TO ESCAPE! She left because she wanted to meld period. If Morinth didn't want to kill then she could have easily stayed off the grid.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...
He did everythingg right. If people don't want to live peacefully with innocent mages, then there is no compromise.

That is retarded. The Circle isn't perfect but you do remember what life was life when there was no circle? Even one of the Bioware Dragon age devs commented on this. There were many many more abominations and monsters roaming the land.

Thedas was very very dangerous place. 

Circle is stupid. There are other ways to handle problems with abominations. I mean the circle can just be a school for example.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...
But ofcourse I do!!!! That is my argument in the first place. But see it went like this chronologicaly:

1) Morinth is considered murderer and is haunted
2) Morinth actually became a murderer.
3) Samara met Morinth.

Considering that Morinth NEVER HAD TO ESCAPE! She left because she wanted to meld period. If Morinth didn't want to kill then she could have easily stayed off the grid.

SHE HAD TO ESCAPE. Don't you understand? Freedom meant so much for her that she would rather die than live in seclusion, but she wasn't killed so she ran away.

[SandTrout]

D.Kain wrote...

So do you punish people that are addicted to before they killed??

 Usually that kind of addiction is not recognized before a murder is commited, but in many cases of mental illness, people are commited ot asylums before they have commited any crime. Even then, they are not being 'punished' they are being held for their own and the public's protection. Are Morinth's sisters being punished, or are are they being protected from their condition is the most practical, and just manner?

[SandTrout]

D.Kain wrote...

SHE HAD TO ESCAPE. Don't you understand? Freedom meant so much for her that she would rather die than live in seclusion, but she wasn't killed so she ran away.

Rather dieing than living in bondage is an admirable trait, but that is not what she chose. She chose to kill, repeatedly, and with disregard to her own safety.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

SHE HAD TO ESCAPE. Don't you understand? Freedom meant so much for her that she would rather die than live in seclusion, but she wasn't killed so she ran away.

Then she deserves to die and I have no sympathy for her. She chose Freedom over the lives of others.

[tjzsf]

If a drug addict runs away from rehab and mugs someone to refuel their habit, how does their addicted state absolve them of anything?

The one valid reason to kill Samara is if you've been so much of a Renegade that Samara's liable to kill you once the mission's over. Whereas Morinth won't because she doesn't care.