3434 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Kain]

SandTrout wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

If my point of view exists it only proves that there is not enough evidence to support your view. Deal with it. You made a conclusion just like me, only a different one.

Your point of view only exists because you ignore evidence and refuse to use logic. No amount of evidence is capable of overcoming willful blindness.

I pointed out every dialog with Morinth, I made refferences. I told you how I understood those lines. You could only tell me what you do right know if i didn't even bother to make those refferences.

And again, I wish for blindness because? 

I mean is it interesting to discuss this with you? Yes it is. But I wouldn't bother making up a random point of view JUST for the sake of discusion.

Modifié par D.Kain, 01 octobre 2011 - 10:50 .

[1136342t54_]

Well 2 things: 

1) Either she couldn't do it. 

She could. She even left Thessia by using her Mother's identity and she is competent.

2) She wanted to deal with the justicars eventually for their unjustice at the same time trying to enjoy life while she can.

So she wanted revenge instead of freedom which would mean your belief that she wanted freedom is false.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

Well 2 things: 

1) Either she couldn't do it. 

She could. She even left Thessia by using her Mother's identity and she is competent.

2) She wanted to deal with the justicars eventually for their unjustice at the same time trying to enjoy life while she can.

So she wanted revenge instead of freedom which would mean your belief that she wanted freedom is false.

1) Well I am not sure how would a JUSTICAR identity not get chekced and allowed a normal life.

2) Revenge came form the inbability to live a free life then, and that is still not something I should blame her for.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...
1) Well I am not sure how would a JUSTICAR identity not get chekced and allowed a normal life.

By using her identiy (Samara wasn't a Justicar at that time) proves she is smart and resourceful enough to live on her own and escape authorities.

2) Revenge came form the inbability to live a free life then, and that is still not something I should blame her for.

Oh yeah you don't blame her for childish revenge which led her to killing hundreds of innocent people? Is her revenge killing innocent people? I only see her running from the Justicar instead of actually fighting. Either way she deserves no sympathy. She could have stayed off the grid and escaped the Authorities instead she chose a life in which she would kill without remorse.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 01 octobre 2011 - 10:58 .

[AlexXIV]

D.Kain wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

You are just trying to put me down with every letter I write. I am sharing my opinion on the subject.

It's an illogical opinion, and therefore you should not expect anyone to be swayed by your 'passion' for the topic. I will not show respect to someone who acts in the manner that you do because it does not command respect. It crys out for disdain.

I am not an idiot, all the conclusions I came to are based on what i got.

You're basing your conclusions on what you want to believe and not a logical analysis of the evidence. The fact that your conclusions are completely counter to logic prove this point, and you admit as much.

Why do you think I would perpesly argue on something if it was stupid? Why???

Because you like to argue and troll.

If my point of view exists it only proves that there is not enough evidence to support your view. Deal with it. You made a conclusion just like me, only a different one.

Are you saying all conclusions have the same value, even if one makes sense and the other doesn't? In that case I could just start making random conlusions about random topics and then claim they are worth as much as those of people who actually spend a lot of time and effort with the subject.

Point is that you argue that if life treats you bad you can treat as many people bad as necessary to make you feel better. Which is wrong. Which you don't understand. No matter how badly life treats/treated you, nothing justifies making other people's life miserable just because yours is. And nothing justifies that you fulfill your sexual or whatever fantasies/desires on the expense of others, especially if they die from it. No, drugs or any sort of addiction don't justify anything either. It is your choice to become addicted to begin with. That's exactly what I meant that you could as well defend child molesters. Is it their fault they are into children? No, it is their nature. So why don't we all have a bit sympathy for child molesters? Did you understand this now? Because I really can't get any clearer ... you cannot tolerate everything. Because if you tolerate this then your children may be the next.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

By using her identiy (Samara wasn't a Justicar at that time) proves she is smart and resourceful enough to live on her own and escape authorities.

Oh yeah you don't blame her for childish revenge which led her to killing hundreds of innocent people? Is her revenge killing innocent people? I only see her running from the Justicar instead of actually fighting. Either way she deserves no sympathy. She could have stayed off the grid and escaped the Authorities instead she chose a life in which she would kill without remorse.

Sow how is looking like her mother ( since they looked similiar due to being related ) and practising Samaras voice, being uber resourseful? 

But didn't I say that she would eventually face Samara herself and kill her? Shepard either killed her before she gathered enough power or helped her do it faster. 
And for like 100 time, running and hiding is NOT freedom.

[D.Kain]

AlexXIV wrote...

Are you saying all conclusions have the same value, even if one makes sense and the other doesn't? In that case I could just start making random conlusions about random topics and then claim they are worth as much as those of people who actually spend a lot of time and effort with the subject.

Point is that you argue that if life treats you bad you can treat as many people bad as necessary to make you feel better. Which is wrong. Which you don't understand. No matter how badly life treats/treated you, nothing justifies making other people's life miserable just because yours is. And nothing justifies that you fulfill your sexual or whatever fantasies/desires on the expense of others, especially if they die from it. No, drugs or any sort of addiction don't justify anything either. It is your choice to become addicted to begin with. That's exactly what I meant that you could as well defend child molesters. Is it their fault they are into children? No, it is their nature. So why don't we all have a bit sympathy for child molesters? Did you understand this now? Because I really can't get any clearer ... you cannot tolerate everything. Because if you tolerate this then your children may be the next.

1) Well yes, if there is not enough evidance to threaten your conclusion it is valid. In my case there isn't. 

2) You can't blame people that are threatened for their actions! Justicars are responsible. If somebody needs to die for Nef then it's Samara. I am not talking about addciction. It is not what justifies Morinth in my opinion. 
Child molesters are give equal rights to begin with unlike Morinth did. You don't have to tolarate bad things you have to change them. Putting a child molester in a prison before he even did it with 1 child is not justified at all.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...
Sow how is looking like her mother ( since they looked similiar due to being related ) and practising Samaras voice, being uber resourseful? 

Have the same voice, mannerisms, ideas. Even Samara said Morinth was the strongest and smartest of her daughters. Morinth isn't a ****ing stupid and it has been said many times Morinth was intelligent. Many Asari at the age of 40 or even 50 don't always stay home. Young Asari LEAVE home in a state of rebellion or trying to have fun. Even Aetheyta complained about that ****. Its not freaking hard to get off of Thessia for her anyway. She can dissappear even within Asari space. The only reasons why they kept findign her was due to Morinth constantly killing. Prove otherwise.

But didn't I say that she would eventually face Samara herself and kill her? Shepard either killed her before she gathered enough power or helped her do it faster. 
And for like 100 time, running and hiding is NOT freedom.

Explain how the hell is that Justifiable. That is in no way right for Morinth. If she wants some stupid as **** revenge by killing Samara. It isn't like they won't send anyone else after her. Morinth deserves to be killed. There is no sympathy for a monster. Even Dreman is more reasonable than you. You actually think Morinth deserves to live but she doesn't. Your twisted sense of morality seems to justify the deaths of innocent civillians. She even was going to sacrifice children for her survival.

If you truly believe Morinth deserves to live and her actions were justifiable than you are no worse than her and expect your points to be treated as if they are insane, ridiculous and immoral as Morinth is.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

If you truly believe Morinth deserves to live and her actions were justifiable than you are no worse than her and expect your points to be treated as if they are insane, ridiculous and immoral as Morinth is.

I'm just going to take that then. That is what I believe, and I am being honest about it. 

All the rage that you have for Morinth should be directed at Justicars, the ones who actually began this insane f*ckup. 

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

If you truly believe Morinth deserves to live and her actions were justifiable than you are no worse than her and expect your points to be treated as if they are insane, ridiculous and immoral as Morinth is.

I'm just going to take that then. That is what I believe, and I am being honest about it. 

All the rage that you have for Morinth should be directed at Justicars, the ones who actually began this insane f*ckup. 

Are you retarded? The Asari government are in charge of this. They are likely the ones who actually put AY in seclusive areas. The purpose of the Justicar order is to fight injustice not kill AY although rogue AY would likely be a part of the injustice.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

If you truly believe Morinth deserves to live and her actions were justifiable than you are no worse than her and expect your points to be treated as if they are insane, ridiculous and immoral as Morinth is.

I'm just going to take that then. That is what I believe, and I am being honest about it. 

All the rage that you have for Morinth should be directed at Justicars, the ones who actually began this insane f*ckup. 

Are you retarded? The Asari government are in charge of this. They are likely the ones who actually put AY in seclusive areas. The purpose of the Justicar order is to fight injustice not kill AY although rogue AY would likely be a part of the injustice.

Ok, ok asari goverment f*cked up. Happy now? Justicars are just that awesome for following f*cked up regulations. 

[AlexXIV]

D.Kain wrote...

1) Well yes, if there is not enough evidance to threaten your conclusion it is valid. In my case there isn't. 

2) You can't blame people that are threatened for their actions! Justicars are responsible. If somebody needs to die for Nef then it's Samara. I am not talking about addciction. It is not what justifies Morinth in my opinion. 
Child molesters are give equal rights to begin with unlike Morinth did. You don't have to tolarate bad things you have to change them. Putting a child molester in a prison before he even did it with 1 child is not justified at all.

1) That's just your opinion.

2) Morinth has killed people before, she is not innocent. The Asari treat the Ardat-Yakshi the way they do out of experience. You cannot live 'free' or 'normal' if you having sex means that somebody dies and at the same time you get sort of addicted which makes it even more likely that it won't just happen once. Have you read the codex about Ardat-Yakshi at all? It is nature who treats Ardat-Yakshi bad, not Justicars. Justicars just try to stop them from harming people.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...
Ok, ok asari goverment f*cked up. Happy now? Justicars are just that awesome for following f*cked up regulations. 

You either have short term memory or don't listen. The whole point of separating AY from society is due to there history with them. Even a small amount of AY are incredibly dangerous to Asari society in the way that a small amount Justicars are if they think the Asari government is run by injustice. Through history AY has done a lot of damage. If they are just let into the public it would be heavily irresponsible and the knowledge about AY getting out into the galaxy would screw up Asari reputation. The fact that some Asari can be ruthless super powered space succubus is not good for reputation.

In short AY are separated from society due to Politics and general safety of the population. 

[D.Kain]

AlexXIV wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

1) Well yes, if there is not enough evidance to threaten your conclusion it is valid. In my case there isn't. 

2) You can't blame people that are threatened for their actions! Justicars are responsible. If somebody needs to die for Nef then it's Samara. I am not talking about addciction. It is not what justifies Morinth in my opinion. 
Child molesters are give equal rights to begin with unlike Morinth did. You don't have to tolarate bad things you have to change them. Putting a child molester in a prison before he even did it with 1 child is not justified at all.

1) That's just your opinion.

2) Morinth has killed people before, she is not innocent. The Asari treat the Ardat-Yakshi the way they do out of experience. You cannot live 'free' or 'normal' if you having sex means that somebody dies and at the same time you get sort of addicted which makes it even more likely that it won't just happen once. Have you read the codex about Ardat-Yakshi at all? It is nature who treats Ardat-Yakshi bad, not Justicars. Justicars just try to stop them from harming people.

I can perfectly imagine myself being celibate if my condition threatened other people that much. I can imagine giving many things up. But that is because I have friends and a loving family. You think I would want to suffer for others if I was an outcast? No. 

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

You either have short term memory or don't listen. The whole point of separating AY from society is due to there history with them. Even a small amount of AY are incredibly dangerous to Asari society in the way that a small amount Justicars are if they think the Asari government is run by injustice. Through history AY has done a lot of damage. If they are just let into the public it would be heavily irresponsible and the knowledge about AY getting out into the galaxy would screw up Asari reputation. The fact that some Asari can be ruthless super powered space succubus is not good for reputation.

In short AY are separated from society due to Politics and general safety of the population. 

Maybe you too have a short memory? 

D.Kain wrote...

Here is my stand for these 4 people: 

I don't think that it is ok to lock up potently dangerous people up for the safety of others. I don't think it is ok to lock up potently dangerous people for MY safety. I think that everybody should be treated equally, and that judgement should come only AFTER/ONLY if they STILL make crimes. 

That is the core of our disagreement here. The where it all starts and the thing that we do not agree on at the start. Everything else is what happens afterwards.

Samara is with those 4 people. Morinth is with me on this.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

I can perfectly imagine myself being celibate if my condition threatened other people that much. I can imagine giving many things up. But that is because I have friends and a loving family. You think I would want to suffer for others if I was an outcast? No. 

How do you think others in society will treat you huh? When people are scared they do stupid things. Not everyone will be very supportive of you. Many would probably try to kill you. The seclusion woul likely be to keep you safe from outside world and keep the outside world safe from you.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

Maybe you too have a short memory? 

Oh yeah I forget your morals are so screwed up you will easily sacrifice general population for a very dangerous serial killer.

Edit: Wait a sec I wrote that wrong lol.

Edit: Now its fixed.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 01 octobre 2011 - 11:26 .

[AlexXIV]

D.Kain wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

1) Well yes, if there is not enough evidance to threaten your conclusion it is valid. In my case there isn't. 

2) You can't blame people that are threatened for their actions! Justicars are responsible. If somebody needs to die for Nef then it's Samara. I am not talking about addciction. It is not what justifies Morinth in my opinion. 
Child molesters are give equal rights to begin with unlike Morinth did. You don't have to tolarate bad things you have to change them. Putting a child molester in a prison before he even did it with 1 child is not justified at all.

1) That's just your opinion.

2) Morinth has killed people before, she is not innocent. The Asari treat the Ardat-Yakshi the way they do out of experience. You cannot live 'free' or 'normal' if you having sex means that somebody dies and at the same time you get sort of addicted which makes it even more likely that it won't just happen once. Have you read the codex about Ardat-Yakshi at all? It is nature who treats Ardat-Yakshi bad, not Justicars. Justicars just try to stop them from harming people.

I can perfectly imagine myself being celibate if my condition threatened other people that much. I can imagine giving many things up. But that is because I have friends and a loving family. You think I would want to suffer for others if I was an outcast? No. 

Are you outcast if you had a highly contageous deadly disease and government decided to lock you up because of that? Is that enough reason to break free and doom every poor soul you meet afterwards to die? You're either obsessed with Morinth or with blaming society for everything. Truth is, **** happens. Ardat-Yakshi have had **** comming to them, but it is, I repeat myself, nature that makes them. It is not like Justicars are to blame that pure blooded Asari have the chance to becoming a monster. It is nature. We don't know why exactly it happens, and neither do the Asari as it seems. But if it happens there is a 99.9 % chance that an Ardat-Yakshi kills someone. That's why they are contained. They are basically walking timebombs.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 01 octobre 2011 - 11:27 .

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

I can perfectly imagine myself being celibate if my condition threatened other people that much. I can imagine giving many things up. But that is because I have friends and a loving family. You think I would want to suffer for others if I was an outcast? No. 

How do you think others in society will treat you huh? When people are scared they do stupid things. Not everyone will be very supportive of you. Many would probably try to kill you. The seclusion woul likely be to keep you safe from outside world and keep the outside world safe from you.

And that is something to work on. Work on being more carring for one another, teach people to respect, care and look out for each other, to trust each other. You have to practise that. Killing or putting people that you don't like to prison is not what you should do. You should work on getting along.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

And that is something to work on. Work on being more carring for one another, teach people to respect, care and look out for each other, to trust each other. You have to practise that. Killing or putting people that you don't like to prison is not what you should do. You should work on getting along.

People haven't gotten incredibly nicer in centuries. Maybe less primative which would lead to less random violence but no matter how much you teach people to respect and care for each other (which what many parents do) that doesn't stick especially when you tell that person that you have to hang out with a powerful succubus that may or may not have melded and got addicted to killing people. Your little fantasy land rarely even happen in fantasy.

This isn't about killing people you don't like. This is about protecting the general population in which you seem to not care about. What is the point in arguing this if you explicitly don't even care about the lives the majority?

[D.Kain]

AlexXIV wrote...

Are you outcast if you had a highly contageous deadly disease and government decided to lock you up because of that? Is that enough reason to break free and doom every poor soul you meet afterwards to die? You're either obsessed with Morinth or with blaming society for everything. Truth is, **** happens. Ardat-Yakshi have had **** comming to them, but it is, I repeat myself, nature that makes them. It is not like Justicars are to blame that pure blooded Asari have the chance to becoming a monster. It is nature. We don't know why exactly it happens, and neither do the Asari as it seems. But if it happens there is a 99.9 % chance that an Ardat-Yakshi kills someone. That's why they are contained. They are basically walking timebombs.

I believe that those 99.9% would go down quickly if people cared for AY. And if and AY kills it should be treated with regret with sympathy. That AY should be put down, and other AY should be shown how unfortunate it is and how unhappy it makes other people, and they are respected and loved for holding themselves together.

[AlexXIV]

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

And that is something to work on. Work on being more carring for one another, teach people to respect, care and look out for each other, to trust each other. You have to practise that. Killing or putting people that you don't like to prison is not what you should do. You should work on getting along.

People haven't gotten incredibly nicer in centuries. Maybe less primative which would lead to less random violence but no matter how much you teach people to respect and care for each other (which what many parents do) that doesn't stick especially when you tell that person that you have to hang out with a powerful succubus that may or may not have melded and got addicted to killing people. Your little fantasy land rarely even happen in fantasy.

This isn't about killing people you don't like. This is about protecting the general population in which you seem to not care about. What is the point in arguing this if you explicitly don't even care about the lives the majority?

You'd first have to build a perfect world. Equality in every aspect, etc. But that's never gonna happen, because the world isn't perfect, it's not even meant to be perfect. If anything it's meant to teach how to live with imperfection.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...
I believe that those 99.9% would go down quickly if people cared for AY. And if and AY kills it should be treated with regret with sympathy. That AY should be put down, and other AY should be shown how unfortunate it is and how unhappy it makes other people, and they are respected and loved for holding themselves together.

Your right. Plus I think we should forget about the victim of the accidental melding. In fact we should blame it all on the victim of the murder. In fact the victim effectively committed suicide by being around the AY.

[AlexXIV]

D.Kain wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Are you outcast if you had a highly contageous deadly disease and government decided to lock you up because of that? Is that enough reason to break free and doom every poor soul you meet afterwards to die? You're either obsessed with Morinth or with blaming society for everything. Truth is, **** happens. Ardat-Yakshi have had **** comming to them, but it is, I repeat myself, nature that makes them. It is not like Justicars are to blame that pure blooded Asari have the chance to becoming a monster. It is nature. We don't know why exactly it happens, and neither do the Asari as it seems. But if it happens there is a 99.9 % chance that an Ardat-Yakshi kills someone. That's why they are contained. They are basically walking timebombs.

I believe that those 99.9% would go down quickly if people cared for AY. And if and AY kills it should be treated with regret with sympathy. That AY should be put down, and other AY should be shown how unfortunate it is and how unhappy it makes other people, and they are respected and loved for holding themselves together.

Ardat-Yakshi get a choice. They can go to a monastry with other Ardat-Yakshi. I don't know what you think what evil things are happening to them in monastries, but they are with like-minded people who have the same problem. They can have friends and even love. They just cannot have sex, because that would just make them kill each other.

[TobyHasEyes]

D.Kain wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Here is my stand for these 4 people:

I don't think that it is ok to lock up potently dangerous people up for the safety of others. I don't think it is ok to lock up potently dangerous people for MY safety. I think that everybody should be treated equally, and that judgement should come only AFTER/ONLY if they STILL make crimes.

That is the core of our disagreement here. The where it all starts and the thing that we do not agree on at the start. Everything else is what happens afterwards.

Samara is with those 4 people. Morinth is with me on this.

 I do think our disagreement stems from our lack of complete knowledge of the AY condition..

 Presumably if someone had a genetic condition which meant that would emit airbourne toxins following puberty if around others, then you would agree with them with locked up, as it is certain to happen and beyond their control

 If the AY condition is as determined as the above case, then we are right in suggesting that should be the case.. I presume in that instance you would also

 The point is that we, in the real world, do not know enough about this fictional condition

It would be better to kill those people, than lock them up then. Or atleast completely sepperate them from society so what nobody feels injust.

Then again a completely loving society would wear rebreathers around those peole. I just can't hope for that kind of society..

 What in your mind is different between being seperated from society and the isolation imposed on the AY?

 Because, as in the above example, if the individuals offenses can be (within reason) guaranteed to occur, you suggest that they should be killed or "completely seperate them from society"

 Entertaining the idea that the AY's offenses can be (within reason) guaranteed to occur, then you appear to support them being seperated from society.. presuming (as would seem to be the case) there is no way of society adjusting to guarantee safety from the AY's condition (as rebreathers would suggest)

 Granted you might not believe that the AY's offenses are as guaranteed as in the case I described above, however the point I made was that we do not know enough to say either way, so what I am suggesting is that if it is the case that they are determined, then what?