3434 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Gh0st_00 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Gh0st_00 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Gh0st_00 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

RyuujinZERO wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

I already said that running is not freedom. Running when you are weak is also not that easy. 

But it IS possible. There is always a choice, but rarely is the right choice the easy choice.

How many more time. Ok YOU are given a choice: 

1) You die
2) You live a life that is worse than death
3) You kill other people so that you don't die and live a more or less interesting life.

So what makes my life any more valuable than the people I kill? How is making my life 'interesting' justification for taking away the lives of others? Who says they weren't troubled individuals trying to live a normal life?

Simple...Because it's you life...Your only life. Why would you or anyone want to suffer a life of endless suffering because you have to denie yourself of all the nature part of life? Would you really be able to hadle that burden of force self denial?

Thing is though, who says that the AY who live in seclusion are suffering?

Would a person who is force to seclusion ever be happy with it?
Think of it this way, Life sentences are really death sentence....Your never going to see the outside world again. The only way out is death, only that you have to wait to die. Your basically dead to the world. It maybe easier in Mornith case if she is with family, but her sister also can be a constant reminders of her condition.  Let not forget it's forced. Anything you want to do in life by choice is over. If you had any dream of becoming someone.....It's gone. The most you can do is what ever distraction you have available to you, the people you can interact with, and whom ever you can talk to on another side of a computer screen(vis LotSB, we now that last on is very limited as well.)
In truth, it would be a very lonely exsistance.

Those are good points, the only problem is we are thinking of how humans do life sentences. We don't know how asari would do it.

That's irrelivent. Comfortable imprisonment is still imprisonment. You still haveno choice in your life if it forced on you. Being isolated in a prison is no different from being isolated in a palace. You still want human contact in the end.

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

Yet you keep defending Morinth's choices.

Yes I am.

[D.Kain]

I see that Dreman9999 completely understands what I am talking about and agrees with me. The only difference is he thinks that Morinth is lost and cannot change, so she must be put down out of mercy, where I want to defend her.

[ThePwener]

D.Kain wrote...

Well sorry if my english dictionary doesn't let me make it sound more mature. Because that is the most important thing right now.

Sorry.....

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Yet you keep defending Morinth's choices.

Yes I am.

Exactly. With all the evidence that people have stated to utterly destroy the validity of your defense of Morinth to keep defending her is not sound. A reasonable man would just admit he's wrong and move on.

Because I think that the situation at hand should be dealt with differently. Killing Morinth is not the solution. 

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

jreezy wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Because I'm the same age as you are.

What does it matter? How does this relate to the topic at hand? 

Because your thought process doesn't seem as sound as I would've expected of a 20 year old.

Dude I am a very curious person. I study anthropology and psycology, I read books and watch a lot of interesting matirials. So everything is ok with my though process.

Then it's your youth that give you that naive ideology.
 Let's flip this abit, what if it's you that she has sights on....Would you let her have her way with you, knowing her past history, or would you fight back?

[CuseGirl]

why is this thread still going? it's not even close to the OP anymore.....

[ThePwener]

D.Kain wrote...

Maybe it will come to that. But I'm not doing that until I show her all sides of friendship and kill all the justicars that come for her.

You're starting to sound like one of her victims. Like when a kinapped, you fall for your kidnapper. Her story is a sad one, and then ending not a happy one. To her and those around her.

Even if she dies, her actions left her mother a broken shadow of her former self. She is/was a self-destructing individual with sociopth tendencies brought upon by her addiction to her unique condition.

[D.Kain]

dreman9999 wrote...

Then it's your youth that give you that naive ideology.
 Let's flip this abit, what if it's you that she has sights on....Would you let her have her way with you, knowing her past history, or would you fight back?

I would fight her back there and at the moment for my life. I wouldn't blame her if she killed me. And if I was asked to solve the issue I wouldn't kill her but would try to make her understand friendship and help her to kill justicars.

[Gh0st_00]

dreman9999 wrote...

Gh0st_00 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Gh0st_00 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Gh0st_00 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

RyuujinZERO wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

I already said that running is not freedom. Running when you are weak is also not that easy. 

But it IS possible. There is always a choice, but rarely is the right choice the easy choice.

How many more time. Ok YOU are given a choice: 

1) You die
2) You live a life that is worse than death
3) You kill other people so that you don't die and live a more or less interesting life.

So what makes my life any more valuable than the people I kill? How is making my life 'interesting' justification for taking away the lives of others? Who says they weren't troubled individuals trying to live a normal life?

Simple...Because it's you life...Your only life. Why would you or anyone want to suffer a life of endless suffering because you have to denie yourself of all the nature part of life? Would you really be able to hadle that burden of force self denial?

Thing is though, who says that the AY who live in seclusion are suffering?

Would a person who is force to seclusion ever be happy with it?
Think of it this way, Life sentences are really death sentence....Your never going to see the outside world again. The only way out is death, only that you have to wait to die. Your basically dead to the world. It maybe easier in Mornith case if she is with family, but her sister also can be a constant reminders of her condition.  Let not forget it's forced. Anything you want to do in life by choice is over. If you had any dream of becoming someone.....It's gone. The most you can do is what ever distraction you have available to you, the people you can interact with, and whom ever you can talk to on another side of a computer screen(vis LotSB, we now that last on is very limited as well.)
In truth, it would be a very lonely exsistance.

Those are good points, the only problem is we are thinking of how humans do life sentences. We don't know how asari would do it.

That's irrelivent. Comfortable imprisonment is still imprisonment. You still haveno choice in your life if it forced on you. Being isolated in a prison is no different from being isolated in a palace. You still want human contact in the end.

That really depends on the person being imprisoned though, some would see it as imprisonment, some would see it as a necesary sacrifice. Besides, the AY still have contact with their families, Samara's daughters have each other, and then there's the AY monastery mentioned in the game, you can't have a monastery without being in contact with others.

[Gh0st_00]

Also that's a big quote pyramid, it might be best to start with a new post.

[D.Kain]

ThePwener wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Maybe it will come to that. But I'm not doing that until I show her all sides of friendship and kill all the justicars that come for her.

You're starting to sound like one of her victims. Like when a kinapped, you fall for your kidnapper. Her story is a sad one, and then ending not a happy one. To her and those around her.

Even if she dies, her actions left her mother a broken shadow of her former self. She is/was a self-destructing individual with sociopth tendencies brought upon by her addiction to her unique condition.

I want to make it better. Not only for Morinth but for other AY as well. Killing her is not the way to do that. Killing Samara is a good start. Preventing Morinth from killing more innocent people while she is with me right now is also a good start.

[Gh0st_00]

CuseGirl wrote...

why is this thread still going? it's not even close to the OP anymore.....

That's a good question. I'm not sure why it hasn't been locked when we're so off topic.

[CuseGirl]

::in mordin:: Pointless. Pointless waste of forum space.

[D.Kain]

CuseGirl wrote...

::in mordin:: Pointless. Pointless waste of forum space.

It's jsut one thread. If you don't like it you can see others. 

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

I see that Dreman9999 completely understands what I am talking about and agrees with me. The only difference is he thinks that Morinth is lost and cannot change, so she must be put down out of mercy, where I want to defend her.

Not really.
I don't agree with you idea that the killing in not her fault. I fell that she is a fault and should be judge or confined for it. I just understand it was the limit of choice in her life that made her make that choice in life, being one choice would be to carry an extremely heavy burden and the other being able to truly live. She is not as big of a monster people make her out to be.. She is tragic. But I do fell that people have the freedom to do what ever they want in life but also is liable for any consequence of the choice they choose in life. Just because you have freedom does not mean you'll not get consequence for your actions.

[ThePwener]

D.Kain wrote...

Preventing Morinth from killing more innocent people while she is with me right now is also a good start.

And how do you propose to do that? It's not that she can fight it, it's that she needs it. Have you seen what happens when a junkie doesn't get his fix? It's an ugly sight let me tell you.

add to that a perfectly healthy specimen with superpowers and you have a real mess waiting to happen. Hell, I doubt even Jack could easily take her down if she goes on a rampage just because she needs to mind**** someone.

[D.Kain]

Dunstan wrote...

So when Morinth found out she and her sisters were Ardat Yakshi she had to make a choice from these options:

A) Go into a seclusion home with her sisters and live life without the temptation or opportunity of killing innocents. Which may confine her life, but It's better than option B and much better than going on a killing spree. So tough luck and deal with it  is my advice to Morinth, It's not our fault you're an AY is it.

Die... tempting but I think I'd rather take option A.

But nope, what does she do:
C) Run away and kill people. Selfish, heartless, cold-blooded psychopath much? 

Oh sooo heartless. For Morinth A) is worse than , and is death. 

Heartless is whoever gave Morinth that choice in the first place. 

[dreman9999]

Gh0st_00 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

That really depends on the person being imprisoned though, some would see it as imprisonment, some would see it as a necesary sacrifice. Besides, the AY still have contact with their families, Samara's daughters have each other, and then there's the AY monastery mentioned in the game, you can't have a monastery without being in contact with others.

Then inthat case, it's even more of a burden for Mornith beacuse she did not want to be confined.
Also, any prisoner can contact with their family. But the intercation is limited. It really would not make a life sentence better.

Modifié par dreman9999, 03 octobre 2011 - 05:18 .

[ThePwener]

Dunstan wrote...

So when Morinth found out she and her sisters were Ardat Yakshi she had to make a choice from these options:

A) Go into a seclusion home with her sisters and live life without the temptation or opportunity of killing innocents. Which may confine her life, but It's better than option B and much better than going on a killing spree. So tough luck and deal with it  is my advice to Morinth, It's not our fault you're an AY is it.

Die... tempting but I think I'd rather take option A.

But nope, what does she do:
C) Run away and kill people. Selfish, heartless, cold-blooded psychopath much? 

You're taking it out of context. She escaped when she was an adolescent (asari years - around 50) or near adolescence.

How many teens have not escaped they're homes for far lower things? Put yourself in her shoes. She was young, rebellious and fed up with her confined life. I don't hold it against her wanting to be free. What I do look down upon is the manipulation, the killing and the drugs.

[D.Kain]

ThePwener wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Preventing Morinth from killing more innocent people while she is with me right now is also a good start.

And how do you propose to do that? It's not that she can fight it, it's that she needs it. Have you seen what happens when a junkie doesn't get his fix? It's an ugly sight let me tell you.

add to that a perfectly healthy specimen with superpowers and you have a real mess waiting to happen. Hell, I doubt even Jack could easily take her down if she goes on a rampage just because she needs to mind**** someone.

She can't mind**** anyone unless they open their mind to her. I believe that she is strong. She went celebate for dacades while she was un the run. She just needs something worth holding on too like friendship, so that melding wouldn't be everything she has left.