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[didymos1120]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Am I correct in assuming you need to do some missions/assignments after recruiting Legion and doing his LM to get the first shown dialogue before the SM, hence why getting this elusive dialogue option costs you (part of) the crew?

Yes.  You have to advance his dialogue to that conversation.  I didn't have a save handy where he'd just been acquired, so I don't know the exact number, but it's three missions/assignments after you have the talk about your N7 armor.

[marshalleck]

The title of the thread reminds me of how all the bad guilds in MMORPGs take some phrase and then run it through a Latin translator in an attempt to sound sophisticated.

[Xewaka]

I rescued the whole crew yet still got that dialogue. Could be a bug, but I got it during/after resolving the Firewalker pack missions.

[snfonseka]

Nice one....

[Fiery Phoenix]

Not bad at all. Thanks, Didy!

Legion is full of highly interesting dialogue. It's too bad he got shafted.

[Pride Demon]

So didymos, the cut dialogue you found were EDI mentioned registering an amalgam of human neural patterns emanating from the Human Reaper is actually confirmed...

And it can thus be inferred this

It was lonely. It called to us.
It wanted to remember. The Masters had been gone so long.
The Masters were lost when it was shattered.
Currents swept through their inner worlds. They were turned to noise. Babble.
The worlds were empty. But the body lived. It lay fallow.
The heart pumped. The lungs breathed. But the mind forgot the Masters.
It called and They did not answer.
We have become an echo of Their echo.
We have become more than we were.
Join us. Know us. Remember all our lives.
We are no longer afraid.
You would never be lonely again.
We are not your enemy. We only wish to share ourselves.
We can join them. We can be like them.
We can reach the end of evolution.
Do not fear. It is wonderful to be us. We understand ourselves.
You cannot defeat them. They will lead us into eternity.
If you could only see how we see. Know what we've learned.
They were called imshai. Those who lived here before.
Reaper. One. A mechanical device used to cut ripened grain. Two. One who gathers a harvest.
Harvest. One. The consequence of an event or series of events. Two. The yield of a growing season. Three. To gather.
Shepard. They know you. They wish you to understand. They are shepherds, too.

was meant to be the melted colonists/crew "speaking" to Shepard through the Human Reaper larva...

Lots of interesting question arise...
For instance:

- Indoctrination is often referred to as whispering, could it be it's the Reapers actually beaming concentrated thought patterns through the magnetic field of their mass effect core?

- Thoughts are supposedly jolts of electrochemical reactions happening inside the brain, melding enough toghether and imbuing them with dark energy could make the magnetic field generated by said thoughts strong enough to modify the brain wave pattern of another?

- Is the failure the Prothean Reaper proved to be due to them having inherently "different" minds (perhaps not bound by the same electrochemical reactions) that prevented them from correctly melding together?

- Do the Reapers think they are actually doing good by destroying everything and "uplifting" the most worthy species? The last sentence in the quoted section seems to indicate this...

- Have we misjudged Harbinger and the Reapers so much? Many say that since the Reapers seen themselves as superior it should avoid taunting Shepard so much, maybe it merely employs psychological warfare or maybe it actually cares about what Shepard thinks: maybe it sees itself as some sort of hard-loving father-figure offering a great gift to a herd that needs guidance and Shepard is seen as a foolish inexperienced child who just likes being difficult, its insults tend to be quite patronizing after all (its stance in Arrival also made me think of a scolding father)...
Maybe it genuinely can't understand why anyone would not want to be a Reaper... Maybe...

I guess we'll have to wait till March to find out... 
Sorry for the long post, but this was quite an interesting find...

EDIT: OT, by the way, do I see a hint to Lucretius in the title? XD

Modifié par Pride Demon, 26 septembre 2011 - 03:04 .

[Thargorichiban]

Great to finally have confirmation that organic species not only provide a fine "slurry" for Reaper creation, but actual neural patterns and memories.

I suppose in this case the Reapers might want to avoid harvesting species that already have a hive-mind since in that case they might be able to go rogue against the rest of them.

[hitorihanzo]

This does feed back into what Sovereign told us on Virmire, that there is a realm of existence far beyond our own comprehension. We can't comprehend how our thoughts could possibly be salvaged from the destruction of our physical bodies. I like this origin much better than the "technology run amuck" theory that some posters have hypothesized.

So does this mean that by killing The Reapers that we are destroying the last remnants of thousands of species that came before us?

Are the race that "ascended" by uploading themselves into virtual space (their name escapes me) going to have a larger role than we realized, since they have also achieved immortality- but on a different path than what the Reapers designed for the galaxy. Perhaps they can reason with the Reapers in a way that we can't?

Either way, I'm very stoked for Mass Effect 3.

[Kekkis]

Thargorichiban wrote...

Great to finally have confirmation that organic species not only provide a fine "slurry" for Reaper creation, but actual neural patterns and memories.

I suppose in this case the Reapers might want to avoid harvesting species that already have a hive-mind since in that case they might be able to go rogue against the rest of them.

So human reaper would be BSN with 2 000 000 000 active members. That thing is going to get worst headache in  history of the universe.

[Shepard the Leper]

Nice find.

But when were humans offered: "Everything the Geth aspire to. True unity. Understanding. Transcendence." and when did humans: "Rejected it. You even refused the possibility of using the Old Machines' gifts to achieve it on your species' own terms."

Legion also knows what they (the Reapers) are. Why didn't Legion tell us earlier? It's pretty obvious Shepard could use such info. Why does a "hidden" part of the game contains potential critical information? If Legion got the info out of the Heretics, why can't we salvage one to extract more data?

This would make Legion's subplot a lot more important than the main plot (aka Collector BS).

[hitorihanzo]

A BSN Reaper would be destroyed exactly 10 seconds after it was created for excessive whining while everyone else is hibernating.

[Escapulario100]

This creates a moral dilemma about The Reapers, if it is true, every time we kill a Reaper, we'll be committing genocide, but is they or us

[Eudaemonium]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Nice find.

But when were humans offered: "Everything the Geth aspire to. True unity. Understanding. Transcendence." and when did humans: "Rejected it. You even refused the possibility of using the Old Machines' gifts to achieve it on your species' own terms."

This is what Legion says to you if you destroy the Collector Base.

Legion also knows what they (the Reapers) are. Why didn't Legion tell us earlier? It's pretty obvious Shepard could use such info. Why does a "hidden" part of the game contains potential critical information? If Legion got the info out of the Heretics, why can't we salvage one to extract more data?)

Legion didn't know, it simply states that it was one of several hypotheses, one which was ultimately proven correct.  I think what Legion is stating re: the heretics was that when Nazara made contact Geth touched its minds, and thus were given a glimpse of how it differed from their own. He didn't get the information "from a heretic", merely at the same time the heretics chose or were coerced (via indoctrination) to break away.


Hmmm, considering I have to play through ME2 again (since I lost my canon save), I might go for this dialogue option.

[Calamity Abounds]

Escapulario100 wrote...

This creates a moral dilemma about The Reapers, if it is true, every time we kill a Reaper, we'll be committing genocide, but is they or us

As Mordin says when talking about the Protheans becoming Collectors,

"No glands, replaced by tech, no digestive system, replaced by tech--no souls, replaced by tech."

The Reapers have already committed cultural genocide on these races so us destroying them is a mercy kill at this point.

Of course this is just my opinion and could be debatable.


Thanks for posting this didymos!

[Zall]

Calamity Abounds wrote...

Escapulario100 wrote...

This creates a moral dilemma about The Reapers, if it is true, every time we kill a Reaper, we'll be committing genocide, but is they or us

As Mordin says when talking about the Protheans becoming Collectors,

"No glands, replaced by tech, no digestive system, replaced by tech--no souls, replaced by tech."

The Reapers have already committed cultural genocide on these races so us destroying them is a mercy kill at this point.

While killing the Collectors is a mercy kill indeed, each Reaper has its own unique and remarkable "nation". Imagine, thousands of species, interacting with each other, serving the goal of sharing their immortality with other lesser races. Imagine, millions of history of different species to be lost if we completely eradicate the Reapers.

The Reapers have to be destroyed, no doubt. Still, it's kinda sad.

Also, it puts a different aspect to killing the Human larva. We have just killed hundred thousands of humans that were contained in that Human Reaper. Some of them may have been our crew and may have recognized us as we were lining up the shots. What have they felt? "Shepard, don't do it. They are not evil." or "Kill us, before we cause more harm"?

[rapscallioness]

Wow! Although, I can't believe this dialogue was all tucked away like that.

Raises more questions:

1) Transcended flesh-billions of organic minds. What I'm wondering is exactly how this is meant? Was this an act by the original Reaper race. Maybe tp preserve their own species from a cataclysm. Or the search for immortality.

Or, are these billions of organic minds the result of harvesting organics every 50,000 for 37 million years?

2) Why? Still, why are they doing this to other organics over and over?

3) Why do all the Reapers look alike? If new Reapers are made in the image of the genetic material of whatever race they're using, wouldn't there be a variety of different looking Reapers? Or, do they konk out and have to be replaced, thus giving a unified look. I mean, are these shells really immortal, or do they have to upgraded every 50,000 years in order to survive?

4) How does the theme of dark..wat was it? matter, or energy? come into play? That creeping destruction that was talked about in ME2--I always thought that it had something to do with the Reapers. As in they generated it somehow. Now, I wonder if this dark matter destruction is what the Reapers are/and were trying to survive against by preserving the minds of the species. But if that's so, how could the Reaper shell still exist? Wouldn't dark matter gobble that up, too?

5) These billions of transcended minds are very tech savvy. They rely on alot of tech to accomplish their goals. Not just the mesmerism of their collective brain power. They use implants; they teched out the Protheans....and what was it with the protheans that they couldn't use their genetic material? And why didn't the Reapers know this beforehand? A simple preliminary tissue sample woulda told them that.

6)Saren: so a portion of these minds possessed Saren's dead body--and turned it inot something quite weird looking. When we destroyed it, it made Sovereign vulnerable for just enough time to effectively attack it. So Harbinger assumes direct control..with what? Brain energy? So what happened to the minds that possessed Saren? Did they free fall for a moment? Was some important connection briefly cut and they had to reestablish an "uplink"?

7) Where is dark space? There are other galaxys outside of the milky way. They're never mentioned. With the Reapers, I woulda immediately thought they were just some species from another galaxy invading ours b4 we got strong enough to figure out how to get to theirs...and destroy them.

8) Nazara is really a beautiful name. There was a thread on here once that was trying to figure out what it meant. Everything I could google basically came down to something to do with vision or eyes; watchers; guardians; keepers of the truth...

sorry about the tl;dr, but wow didymos. Nice find, really. This is becoming trippy as heck.

I like it!

[JerkyJohnny14]

Woah.

[rapscallioness]

Oh, and how would you.."upload" Minds from the genetic material of a species?

And are these billions of organic minds and the reaper shells necessarily one and the same? I mean, are these Reapers using these billions of organic minds to fuel their systems , so to say?

Are they trapped in there? Are the Reapers "soul eaters"?

I'm done for real this time. *slinks away*

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

Pretty cool

[Epic777]

Saphra Deden wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Oh, and how would you.."upload" Minds from the genetic material of a species?

Techno-babble.

It wouldn't be scifi without it

[didymos1120]

rapscallioness wrote...

Oh, and how would you.."upload" Minds from the genetic material of a species?

Keep in mind, the "genetic paste" thing came from Chakwas....who was trapped in a pod at the time and watching other people get gooified.  There's basically zero chance she knew what was actually going on with the process.  She even admits as much when Shep asks why they'd do that.

[111987]

Wow, awesome find! I can't believe no-one has found this before....then again, it is hidden really well! I wonder why they wouldn't make it easier to find...oh well. Thanks for posting the video!

Also, does this remind everyone of the Virtual Aliens from the Cerberus Daily News? It's pretty much the exact same thing as the Reapers. I always figured the Reapers were something like the VA's, but it's great to get proof.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Virtual_Alien

Modifié par 111987, 26 septembre 2011 - 07:39 .

[brain_damage]

If this is correct, wouldn't destroying the Reapers be akin to commiting genocide? Dozens of nations and species and all trillions of minds/people. And you kill them so you can save your own species. Bravo, Shepard, bravo.

[111987]

brain_damage wrote...

If this is correct, wouldn't destroying the Reapers be akin to commiting genocide? Dozens of nations and species and all trillions of minds/people. And you kill them so you can save your own species. Bravo, Shepard, bravo.

But the Reapers are the one initiating the conflict, not Shepard or humanity. There's nothing immoral about fighting back.