428 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

If i'd abhore combat, I would write for adventure games.

You forget that BioWare is extremely uncommon in that they have positions for "writers" as distinct from other designers.

[Mr.House]

Personally I don't see what's wrong with this option, if people can skip dialog just to kill things why can't people skip combat to hear dialog? Not everyone cares for combat in rpgs, more so Bioware games. I would not miss combat at all in a Bioware game.

/raises flameshield

[UrkOfGreyhawk]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Way to miss the point there, son. Kick that straw man's ass!

There was't anything there anyway, dad, just some rambling of an old man completely oblivious to passions of the yonger. Here's hot chocolate for you.

Son, get help. Your "yong man's passion" is wasted on video games. Pour that energy into your work (or your education), your wife, your children... real life. Things that matter. Set real goals, and take real steps to achieve them. Take pride in that.

Yes it's hard. Yes, it's stressful. Yes, failure has REAL consequences. That's what makes real life achievments real. That's why it's healthy to take pride in them.

Video games are for having fun. There is no real stress. There are no real consequences for failure. Taking pride from beating a video game is just kinda lame.

And no thanks. I prefer coffee.

Modifié par UrkOfGreyhawk, 29 septembre 2011 - 09:10 .

[Sidney]

stragonar wrote...

Take the challenge out of a game and it's not a game anymore. If you want to implement the option skipping combat, fine...but at least replace it with another challenge, so that the concept of gameplay still exists. This way those who wish to only sometimes skip combat would still feel immersed and challenged. A lot of rpgs are famous for minigames that can be played aside from story and combat, maybe having the mingame option to replace combat would appeal to these people?

So is LA Noire not a game? They have skippable action sequences for people who want to just play the dective game and not the (badly) implemented chase/gunfight sequences. I've played DAO a bunch of times, I've beaten all the big baddies. I've proven my video game machismo. When I fight the dragons and other stupid bosses I set the game to casual because the challenge and interest of those fights is dead to me now.

I continue to be amazed at how something that doesn't affect the way you play a game bother you because someone else isn't playing the game the way you want it played.

[DarkDragon777]

Mr.House wrote...

Personally I don't see what's wrong with this option, if people can skip dialog just to kill things why can't people skip combat to hear dialog? Not everyone cares for combat in rpgs, more so Bioware games. I would not miss combat at all in a Bioware game.

/raises flameshield

Um, if you skip combat, you might not get the dialouge beacuse it had something to do with the combat. And would you really want to skip combat just to hear dialouge, and play an interactive movie that can be beat in a few hours instead of a game?

[hoorayforicecream]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

My point was just that even if she held the opinion that all combat-based gameplay was bad, forever, and she wanted to turn Dragon Age into a dating sim, she's (I believe) not in a position to get it done.

If i'd abhore combat, I would write for adventure games.

Where does she say she abhors combat? I thought she was talking about hypothetical female consumers, such as busy adult women.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Son, get help. Your "yong man's passion" is wasted on video games. Pour that energy into your work (or your education), your wife, your children... real life. Things that matter. Set real goals, and take real steps to achieve them. Take pride in that.

I can't! Those video games, they're like leeches that stick into me and I can't get a hold on myself to do anything exept shoving my ass into the office chair one more time to beat Baldur's Gate 2 with a female dwarf cleric of Lathander!
If only there were someone for me, someone to show me the wrongs of my ways, show me the light...

You forget that BioWare is extremely uncommon in that they have positions for "writers" as distinct from other designers.

Can you please elaborate? You mean writers work like just by themselves, aside from the team?

[SgtElias]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

My point was just that even if she held the opinion that all combat-based gameplay was bad, forever, and she wanted to turn Dragon Age into a dating sim, she's (I believe) not in a position to get it done.

If i'd abhore combat, I would write for adventure games.

That's a rather drastic interpretation of the text.

Also, you're not Jennifer Hepler.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Where does she say she abhors combat? I thought she was talking about hypothetical female consumers, such as busy adult women.

Why would busy adult women want to skip part of a gameplay?

Edit.: Hehe, "..that's a riddle for you Alice."

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 29 septembre 2011 - 09:12 .

[stragonar]

Sidney wrote...

stragonar wrote...

Take the challenge out of a game and it's not a game anymore. If you want to implement the option skipping combat, fine...but at least replace it with another challenge, so that the concept of gameplay still exists. This way those who wish to only sometimes skip combat would still feel immersed and challenged. A lot of rpgs are famous for minigames that can be played aside from story and combat, maybe having the mingame option to replace combat would appeal to these people?

So is LA Noire not a game? They have skippable action sequences for people who want to just play the dective game and not the (badly) implemented chase/gunfight sequences. I've played DAO a bunch of times, I've beaten all the big baddies. I've proven my video game machismo. When I fight the dragons and other stupid bosses I set the game to casual because the challenge and interest of those fights is dead to me now.

I continue to be amazed at how something that doesn't affect the way you play a game bother you because someone else isn't playing the game the way you want it played.

There is no alternative gameplay option in DA like the game you mentioned. This is the main reason I made the suggestion. Does this make more sense now?

[xkg]

stragonar wrote...

Sidney wrote...

stragonar wrote...

Take the challenge out of a game and it's not a game anymore. If you want to implement the option skipping combat, fine...but at least replace it with another challenge, so that the concept of gameplay still exists. This way those who wish to only sometimes skip combat would still feel immersed and challenged. A lot of rpgs are famous for minigames that can be played aside from story and combat, maybe having the mingame option to replace combat would appeal to these people?

So is LA Noire not a game? They have skippable action sequences for people who want to just play the dective game and not the (badly) implemented chase/gunfight sequences. I've played DAO a bunch of times, I've beaten all the big baddies. I've proven my video game machismo. When I fight the dragons and other stupid bosses I set the game to casual because the challenge and interest of those fights is dead to me now.

I continue to be amazed at how something that doesn't affect the way you play a game bother you because someone else isn't playing the game the way you want it played.

There is no alternative gameplay option in DA like the game you mentioned. This is the main reason I made the suggestion. Does this make more sense now?

Ok. Let's remove combat from Dragon Age. How is it different now frm so much popular Point and Click adventure games and there are so many out there ?

Do you mean those "things" aren't games and they have no gamepley.
WTH is "gameplay" anyway ?

Modifié par xkg, 29 septembre 2011 - 09:19 .

[Mr.House]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Personally I don't see what's wrong with this option, if people can skip dialog just to kill things why can't people skip combat to hear dialog? Not everyone cares for combat in rpgs, more so Bioware games. I would not miss combat at all in a Bioware game.

/raises flameshield

Um, if you skip combat, you might not get the dialouge beacuse it had something to do with the combat. And would you really want to skip combat just to hear dialouge, and play an interactive movie that can be beat in a few hours instead of a game?

The only dialog in combat for Bioware games is combat banter, skippnig dialog and walknig around to hear banter can still be there. But nah it's ok for peopel to skip dialog swo they can kill things but noooooooooooooooooo opeopel can't skip combat, that's bad and combat makes a game.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Ok. Let's remove combat from Dragon Age. How is it different now frm so much popular Point and Click adventure games and there are so many out there ?

Ow, ow, I know!
There's no point and click!

[Mr.House]

People seem to be confusing combat and walking around/buying stuff/talking to NPCs.

[hoorayforicecream]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Where does she say she abhors combat? I thought she was talking about hypothetical female consumers, such as busy adult women.

Why would busy adult women want to skip part of a gameplay?

Edit.: Hehe, "..that's a riddle for you Alice."

Because they are interested in the story, but less so in the combat? I thought that was the point Hepler was making.

[Heather Cline]

I have to say that she doesn't speak for all women though her response seems to think she does.

That said, she's a writer, not a game developer. So she's entitled to her opinion even if it isn't a popular one.

[MerinTB]

Mr.House wrote...

Personally I don't see what's wrong with this option, if people can skip dialog just to kill things why can't people skip combat to hear dialog? Not everyone cares for combat in rpgs, more so Bioware games. I would not miss combat at all in a Bioware game.

/raises flameshield

Not always on the same side on issues with you, Mr.House, but I'm offering to help you hold up that shield.

I agree.  BioWare's strong suit is NOT combat, and half the time I feel like it's the chore to get at the story.  Heck, that's HOW I thought about Wing Commander back in the day - I have to put up with this space flight sim combat to get at the story I'm interested in!

I don't mind combat, especially turn-based, tactical combat.  But I'm just as well to not play it in certain games.  If I could have skipped a ton of the fights in FF XIII, for example, my already great experience with that game would have sky-rocketed.

Or there's the Total War games.  You CAN skip combat, having the computer compare the two armies and decide the outcome.  While I actually LOVE TW's combat, I do still "skip" probably half to two thirds of the fights.  I like the big picture strategy even more than the tactics on the field.

[Mr.House]

MerinTB wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Personally I don't see what's wrong with this option, if people can skip dialog just to kill things why can't people skip combat to hear dialog? Not everyone cares for combat in rpgs, more so Bioware games. I would not miss combat at all in a Bioware game.

/raises flameshield

Not always on the same side on issues with you, Mr.House, but I'm offering to help you hold up that shield.

I agree.  BioWare's strong suit is NOT combat, and half the time I feel like it's the chore to get at the story.  Heck, that's HOW I thought about Wing Commander back in the day - I have to put up with this space flight sim combat to get at the story I'm interested in!

I don't mind combat, especially turn-based, tactical combat.  But I'm just as well to not play it in certain games.  If I could have skipped a ton of the fights in FF XIII, for example, my already great experience with that game would have sky-rocketed.

Or there's the Total War games.  You CAN skip combat, having the computer compare the two armies and decide the outcome.  While I actually LOVE TW's combat, I do still "skip" probably half to two thirds of the fights.  I like the big picture strategy even more than the tactics on the field.

Also if people can skip dialog to get to the combat, why can't peopel skip combat to get to the dialog? It's only fair imho. I'm not saying I will use the system but it's something to consider, plus if your a PC user you already have runscript killallhostiles

[tmp7704]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

And would you really want to skip combat just to hear dialouge, and play an interactive movie that can be beat in a few hours instead of a game?

Sure. There's only a few fights in a typical RPG that actually have any relevance to the plot, or mean something. It's amazing how many people seem to have difficulty grasping that the rest could be safely skipped, and that for some other people the ability to shape the story and see how their choices play out ... is interesting enough on its own.

(heck, if i remember right even Mr.Laidlaw has admitted he came to think perhaps DA2 had too much combat. Which to some seems to be equivalent of saying that the game had too much gameplay, eh)

Modifié par tmp7704, 29 septembre 2011 - 09:50 .

[mesmerizedish]

tmp7704 wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

And would you really want to skip combat just to hear dialouge, and play an interactive movie that can be beat in a few hours instead of a game?

Sure. There's only a few fights in a typical RPG that actually have any relevance to the plot, or mean something. It's amazing how many people seem to have difficulty grasping that the rest could be safely skipped, and that for some other people the ability to shape the story and see how their choices play out ... is interesting enough on its own.

Planescape: Torment famously has only like two or three combats that are actuall required. Every other combat can be avoided in some fashion.

The point is that combat was far from the core gameplay of one of the greatest games ever made. No one criticized it of being an "interactive movie."

Other games, like Origins and DAII, focus a lot more on combat for their gameplay, and that's fine too. But a "skip combat" button would be useful to players who like playing games like Torment.

Would I ever use such a button? Maybe in the same way that jlb uses "killallhostiles,' without which she couldn't possibly finish Origins ever again, but never when I'm actually trying to experience the game. But is it a horrible idea that sucks the "game" out of the game? Absolutely not! The idea that gameplay = combat is just absurd.

[stragonar]

tmp7704 wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

And would you really want to skip combat just to hear dialouge, and play an interactive movie that can be beat in a few hours instead of a game?

Sure. There's only a few fights in a typical RPG that actually have any relevance to the plot, or mean something. It's amazing how many people seem to have difficulty grasping that the rest could be safely skipped, and that for some other people the ability to shape the story and see how their choices play out ... is interesting enough on its own.

(heck, if i remember right even Mr.Laidlaw has admitted he came to think perhaps DA2 had too much combat. Which to some seems to be equivalent of saying that the game had too much gameplay, eh)

Memories of "choose you own adventure" books. Unfortunately, DA2 fails at this since there are far too many options that take you to the same page. If this weren't the case,  I might be inclined to agree that it would still be considered a game of sorts. 

[Addai]

stragonar wrote...

Take the challenge out of a game and it's not a game anymore. If you want to implement the option skipping combat, fine...but at least replace it with another challenge, so that the concept of gameplay still exists. This way those who wish to only sometimes skip combat would still feel immersed and challenged. A lot of rpgs are famous for minigames that can be played aside from story and combat, maybe having the mingame option to replace combat would appeal to these people?

The point is to have the option, if you're rushed or bored or re-playing or that particular sequence is badly designed, to skip a combat sequence if you want to in order to get to the next story element.  If I'm in that mood, I don't want to be "challenged."  A minigame would be just another way to put in a nerdy obstacle to advancing the story.

[Xewaka]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
The idea that gameplay = combat is just absurd.

About two thirds of my top ten games of all time have little to no combat in them. And they usually have from thirty to sixty hours of gameplay.

[Zjarcal]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
Would I ever use such a button? Maybe in the same way that jlb uses "killallhostiles,' without which she couldn't possibly finish Origins ever again, but never when I'm actually trying to experience the game. But is it a horrible idea that sucks the "game" out of the game? Absolutely not! The idea that gameplay = combat is just absurd.

This.

I myself would never use it if I was doing a serious playthrough, but if I'm just fooling around and want to advance the story to see something in particular, it is absolutely NO different than skipping a cutscene to quickly start a fight.

And considering that in BW games the dialogue is just as important as the combat (if not more so), then it's only fair to have an equal option to skip either if one so desires.

[stragonar]

Addai67 wrote...

stragonar wrote...

Take the challenge out of a game and it's not a game anymore. If you want to implement the option skipping combat, fine...but at least replace it with another challenge, so that the concept of gameplay still exists. This way those who wish to only sometimes skip combat would still feel immersed and challenged. A lot of rpgs are famous for minigames that can be played aside from story and combat, maybe having the mingame option to replace combat would appeal to these people?

The point is to have the option, if you're rushed or bored or re-playing or that particular sequence is badly designed, to skip a combat sequence if you want to in order to get to the next story element.  If I'm in that mood, I don't want to be "challenged."  A minigame would be just another way to put in a nerdy obstacle to advancing the story.

Are you ever in that "mood" the first time you play through the game though? That is really what is the issue here. If you provide players the option to skip through challenges they haven't even faced before just because they don't like combat and do not provide an alternative challenge..well, let's just say those nerdy obstacles are the difference between a game and a book.