222 réponses à ce sujet

[Zall]

Renegades makes the galaxy a safer, but emptier place.

The rachni are dead, the krogan are splintered and still affected by genophage, turians, asari and salarians do not hold a seat in the Council anymore. No race will challenge the humans in the near future (except for batarians, but they're nuts anyway).

[AlexXIV]

Rezources wrote...

I haven't seen any negative repercussions for any paragon or renegade decisions yet. You only screw yourself over if you go neutral it seems.

Anyway, this thread is about to get crazy full of absolutists who haven't realized this yet.

Why do you screw yourself over if you are neutral? Because you lose dialogue options? Because I am pretty sure those who go the middle ground can also successfully die in the end end the Reaper threat.

[ddv.rsa]

AlexXIV wrote...

People always recite the Rachni Queen and the Genophage. I personally don't care either way. Keeping the cure and setting the Rachni Queen was my personal choice, independed of paragon/renegade. Well as are all my decisions. But one thing I had really trouble with is Zaheeds quest. I wanted Vido dead, just like Zaheed. But at the point let the people in the factory burn I felt like the biggest ass in the galaxy and just couldn't go on. Yeah it's true in all my playthroughs, even renegade playthrough, I never killed Vido. Even though I wish I could. Point is, the people die and Vido will just be replaced by someone else. The Blue Suns are not any weaker if you kill Vido, it is only Zaheeds personal revenge. But for me personally it feels a bit odd to fail the mission on purpose. But better than letting the workers die in the fire.

If Vido escapes he'll just carry on doing the same crimes and worse. If your attitude is "why bother, someone will replace him" then for that matter why punish any criminal?

Eldfell-Ashland bears responsibility for any workers killed, not Shepard or Zaeed. What are they thinking, setting up  a plant in the Terminus? Even the workers are partly to blame: the second any human goes into the Terminus they are taking their life into their own hands.

[Saberchic]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

And some renegades might see those actions as impractical. Cure the genophage and the krogans will more than likely rise up again (this time more pissed and ready for revenge); let the Rachni Queen go and watch as a fierce race gets re-indoctrinated by the reapers or threatens the lives of the council races again. 

I doubt that. How do you know Bioware? <_<

I don't doubt that at all.

And I was playing the devil's advocate to you. You gave reasons that you said most paragons use. I gave a version of what some renegades might think in that same situation.

AlexXIV wrote...
But one thing I had really trouble with is
Zaheeds quest. I wanted Vido dead, just like Zaheed. But at the point
let the people in the factory burn I felt like the biggest ass in the
galaxy and just couldn't go on. Yeah it's true in all my playthroughs,
even renegade playthrough, I never killed Vido. Even though I wish I
could. Point is, the people die and Vido will just be replaced by
someone else. The Blue Suns are not any weaker if you kill Vido, it is
only Zaheeds personal revenge. But for me personally it feels a bit odd
to fail the mission on purpose. But better than letting the workers die
in the fire.

Yeah, only my really jerk Shepards ever leave those people to die. It really depends on their personalities. I have lots of paragade and renegon Sheps. I only have a few strictly paragon and renegade ones.

Modifié par Saberchic, 27 septembre 2011 - 07:49 .

[AlexXIV]

ddv.rsa wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

People always recite the Rachni Queen and the Genophage. I personally don't care either way. Keeping the cure and setting the Rachni Queen was my personal choice, independed of paragon/renegade. Well as are all my decisions. But one thing I had really trouble with is Zaheeds quest. I wanted Vido dead, just like Zaheed. But at the point let the people in the factory burn I felt like the biggest ass in the galaxy and just couldn't go on. Yeah it's true in all my playthroughs, even renegade playthrough, I never killed Vido. Even though I wish I could. Point is, the people die and Vido will just be replaced by someone else. The Blue Suns are not any weaker if you kill Vido, it is only Zaheeds personal revenge. But for me personally it feels a bit odd to fail the mission on purpose. But better than letting the workers die in the fire.

If Vido escapes he'll just carry on doing the same crimes and worse. If your attitude is "why bother, someone will replace him" then for that matter why punish any criminal?

Eldfell-Ashland bears responsibility for any workers killed, not Shepard or Zaeed. What are they thinking, setting up  a plant in the Terminus? Even the workers are partly to blame: the second any human goes into the Terminus they are taking their life into their own hands.

Well if you can eliminate criminals without letting a bunch of innocents burn in a fire, then I am all for it. But it was a matter of costs. They were too high. It's not my philosophy to let people die if I can help it. Even if it was their own fault. It's the same if someone breaks into ice when skating. Are you not going to help because it was their own fault that they risked it?

[ddv.rsa]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well if you can eliminate criminals without letting a bunch of innocents burn in a fire, then I am all for it. But it was a matter of costs. They were too high. It's not my philosophy to let people die if I can help it. Even if it was their own fault. It's the same if someone breaks into ice when skating. Are you not going to help because it was their own fault that they risked it?

It isn't as simple as whether or not you'd like to help. At least not for me. If I can help someone without risking something worse then I will. For example, healing the injured Salarian in the Dantius towers. In a case like Zaeed's mission, too bad.

[AlexXIV]

ddv.rsa wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well if you can eliminate criminals without letting a bunch of innocents burn in a fire, then I am all for it. But it was a matter of costs. They were too high. It's not my philosophy to let people die if I can help it. Even if it was their own fault. It's the same if someone breaks into ice when skating. Are you not going to help because it was their own fault that they risked it?

It isn't as simple as whether or not you'd like to help. At least not for me. If I can help someone without risking something worse then I will. For example, healing the injured Salarian in the Dantius towers. In a case like Zaeed's mission, too bad.

As you say, risking something worse. I didn't find it worse to let Vido go ... this time. Reason is as I said, someone else will lead the Blue Suns. You have no way to know if his successor is better or worse than him. What you can know is that the people will die without your help.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 27 septembre 2011 - 08:09 .

[Thompson family]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Renegade because it eliminates variables more often than does Paragon.

Elimination of variables = alone and trapped.

Renegade = Paranoid.

Modifié par Thompson family, 27 septembre 2011 - 08:23 .

[DarkDragon777]

A combination of both. I know Renegade is supposed to represent pragmatism, but imo sometimes paragon choices are more pragmatic.

[ddv.rsa]

Thompson family wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Renegade because it eliminates variables more often than does Paragon.

Elimination of variables = alone and trapped.

Renegade = Paranoid.

Are you for real? Destroying the genophage cure and killing the Rachni Queen are paranoid? I strongly suggest you read the codex entries on the Krogan Rebellions and Rachni Wars. Frankly I'd rather be "paranoid" if the alternative is gambling with billions of lives.

As for destroying the Collector Base because you distrust a group sworn to defend humanity- that is paranoid.

[Almostfaceman]

It really can go either way, and the Bioware people tip us off to that in the little dialogue with Garrus on his Dr. Heart mission in Mass Effect 1. I usually go the Paragon route on this one, and Dr. Heart attacks anyway - even if you spare his life. Then Garrus asks "so what was the point?" And you reply "well I can control what I do, after that the ball's in their court". So I expect that some Paragon actions are gonna bite us in the arse as with some Renegade. In the end I suppose you just have to be comfortable with your decisions and see how it plays out.

[RamirezWolfen]

Neither. The best solution would be a mix of both.

[Barquiel]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Are you for real? Destroying the genophage cure and killing the Rachni Queen are paranoid?

I would describe killing the rachni queen as paranoid. The asari and salarians had problems with the rachni 2000! years ago.
The rachni technology is still the same.
The asari/salarians have better ships, more colonies and more allies (turians, humans).

The rachni are not a threat anymore.

Modifié par Barquiel, 27 septembre 2011 - 09:34 .

[ddv.rsa]

Barquiel wrote...

I would describe killing the rachni queen as paranoid. The asari and salarians had problems against the rachni 2000! years ago.
The rachni technology is still the same.
The asari/salarians have better ships, more colonies and more allies (turians, humans).

The rachni are not a threat anymore.

Until the games, technology has been largely stagnant in the Mass Effect universe. The Turians had mass effect technology for thousands of years, but human ships produced a few years after finding the ruins on Mars were a match for them.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Renegade, because Saphra and Dave say so.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 27 septembre 2011 - 09:50 .

[Han Shot First]

Some situations would be better resolved with a paragon approach, others with a renegade.

But out of the two extremes a pure paragon path probably ends with a safer and more secure galaxy. The problem with the pure Renegade path is that even if human dominance is achieved, it is achieved in such a way that it has no chance of lasting. It is also achieved in such a way that humanity's inevitable fall is likely to be both violent and destructive. The other civilizations aren't going to be content to be under humanity's boot once the external threat (Reapers) is removed.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 27 septembre 2011 - 09:51 .

[Urazz]

I'd say paragades or renegons would end up making the galaxy safer. They both use diplomacy when applicable but use brute force when appropiate.

ddv.rsa wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

I would describe killing the rachni queen as paranoid. The asari and salarians had problems against the rachni 2000! years ago.
The rachni technology is still the same.
The asari/salarians have better ships, more colonies and more allies (turians, humans).

The rachni are not a threat anymore.

Until the games, technology has been largely stagnant in the Mass Effect universe. The Turians had mass effect technology for thousands of years, but human ships produced a few years after finding the ruins on Mars were a match for them.

I think the ruins on Mars had more intact technology than what the Asari, Salarians, or Turians found, hence why humanity teched up so fast to an equivalent level.

Modifié par Urazz, 27 septembre 2011 - 09:53 .

[ddv.rsa]

Urazz wrote...

I'd say paragades or renegons would end up making the galaxy safer. They both use diplomacy when applicable but use brute force when appropiate.

Somewhat off topic, but what exactly is a paragade / renegon? I've been on these boards for ages but I've never seen a definition.

[Ramus Quaritch]

I think Paragade is the best because there are times where you need to make unpopular but necessary choices to harden the galaxy and prepare it for the trials it will face. At the same time, the galaxy won't be safer if you are killing/antagonizing potential allies. So I think it is best for the galaxy if you strike a balance between the two.

[Han Shot First]

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

I think Paragade is the best because there are times where you need to make unpopular but necessary choices to harden the galaxy and prepare it for the trials it will face. At the same time, the galaxy won't be safer if you are killing/antagonizing potential allies. So I think it is best for the galaxy if you strike a balance between the two.

This.

Somewhat off topic, but what exactly is a paragade / renegon? I've been on these boards for ages but I've never seen a definition.

Paragade and Renegon is forum slang for playthrough styles where the player doesn't lean too heavily towards either a Paragon or a Renegade style of play. They are somewhere in the middle between the two extremes, with paragades leaning slightly more paragon and renegons leading slightly more renegade. They wear gray hats, rather than white or black.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 27 septembre 2011 - 10:02 .