222 réponses à ce sujet

[NugatRevolution]

We don't know enough about how the story plays out to make an accurate and informed decision.

I can easily see how Quarians and Geth being buddies against the reapers could be helpful.

I can also easily see the Quarians stabbing the Geth in the back (or vice versa) and it would have been simpler to exterminate the Geth in the first place.

Or exterminate the Quarians, I suppose.. Although, I don't think that would have helped me get in Tali's Enviro-Pants.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Modifié par NugatRevolution, 28 septembre 2011 - 07:09 .

[ddv.rsa]

Luc0s wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

They wouldn't exactly be thrilled, but I don't see the Salarians and Asari going to war to restore Turian dominance. Even less so for minor species who lost nothing and are actually benefitng from human rule.

There aren't any species benefiting from human rule. The only species benefiting from human rule is humanity.

As I recall Shepard mentions there are. Start a game with a human Council, find the reporter on the Citadel and choose the paragon / charm response.

[GodWood]

Luc0s wrote...
There aren't any species benefiting from human rule. The only species benefiting from human rule is humanity.

Untrue.
Under the Human-led Council the volus are starting to gain some independence.

[The Elder King]

GodWood wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
There aren't any species benefiting from human rule. The only species benefiting from human rule is humanity.

Untrue.
Under the Human-led Council the volus are starting to gain some independence.

We don't really know how the Volus feel about being under the Turian.
In this page [http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Volus] it's stated that the Volus asked fro client status.

About the human Council, I don't think that it's necessary a bad thing, or worse than a normal Council . The Council it's already a holigarchy, and three species (four after ME) control the galaxy. I think that the best solution would be a Council formed by every organic race.

Modifié par hhh89, 28 septembre 2011 - 09:06 .

[Xilizhra]

GodWood wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
There aren't any species benefiting from human rule. The only species benefiting from human rule is humanity.

Untrue.
Under the Human-led Council the volus are starting to gain some independence.

Two benefiting, three shafted. Still a net loss.

[Barquiel]

I doubt the volus will benefit from human rule.

[ddv.rsa]

Xilizhra wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
There aren't any species benefiting from human rule. The only species benefiting from human rule is humanity.

Untrue.
Under the Human-led Council the volus are starting to gain some independence.

Two benefiting, three shafted. Still a net loss.

Boo-hoo. Those three have been shafting everyone else for thousands of years. 

[GodWood]

Xilizhra wrote...
Two benefiting, three shafted. Still a net loss.

You speak as if the other races are no longer on the council.

Barquiel wrote...
I doubt the volus will benefit from human rule.

Well as of now they are.

Modifié par GodWood, 28 septembre 2011 - 09:11 .

[ddv.rsa]

GodWood wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Two benefiting, three shafted. Still a net loss.

You speak as if the other races are no longer on the council.

It's possible they're not.

[GodWood]

ddv.rsa wrote...
It's possible they're not.

Despite Udina's little speech the 'humans only Council' never happens.

[Barquiel]

ddv.rsa wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Two benefiting, three shafted. Still a net loss.

You speak as if the other races are no longer on the council.

It's possible they're not.

There is no "all Human Council" in ME2. You have a human-led council or the old council.

[Sajuro]

Xilizhra wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
There aren't any species benefiting from human rule. The only species benefiting from human rule is humanity.

Untrue.
Under the Human-led Council the volus are starting to gain some independence.

Two benefiting, three shafted. Still a net loss.

More than that I think, probably every Alien race will be shafted if human supremist groups (Cerberus) come to power through the council

[ddv.rsa]

Barquiel wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Two benefiting, three shafted. Still a net loss.

You speak as if the other races are no longer on the council.

It's possible they're not.

There is no "all Human Council" in ME2. You have a human-led council or the old council.

What about the introductory text, and the newsflashes about "dissadents from former Council races"? Then again the new Council refuses to meet with Shepard, but that says nothing of its composition.

Have the devs spoken on this?

[Bad King]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Two benefiting, three shafted. Still a net loss.

You speak as if the other races are no longer on the council.

It's possible they're not.

There is no "all Human Council" in ME2. You have a human-led council or the old council.

What about the introductory text, and the newsflashes about "dissadents from former Council races"? Then again the new Council refuses to meet with Shepard, but that says nothing of its composition.

Have the devs spoken on this?

Despite there being 2 variables for letting the council at the end of ME1 (all-human or human-led), the ME2 import doesn't pick up on this- there is only a flag for 'let the council die' and not the aftermath of this. If the council died, things are pretty ambiguous in ME2, however most of the hints point to it being human-led:

1). The intro text says 'human-led', not 'all-human'.
2). Udina is trying to build relations with the other council members (if they were all Alliance councillors, then there would be no need for him to build relations with them).
3). The council refuse to see Shepard as they believe that s/he put human interests ahead of those of the other races at the end of ME1, which implies to me that they are not humans (although they could just be humans who are apologists for the other races).
4). Joram Talid implies that there are aliens on the council who are puppets of humanity.
5). As for the 'former council races' news vid, this can be interpreted as meaning 'races of the former council' rather than 'races who are no longer on the council'. Basically it's a faster way of saying 'Turians, Salarians, and Asari' (the former council consisted of turians, salarians and asari and the new council consists of turians, salarians, asari and humans).
6). Speculation: an all-human council is simply inplausible- Udina at the end of ME1 states that the all-human council's ammunition for staying in power was the other races' fear of a reaper invasion (who would then flock behind a human council out of sheer terror). However, with the council denying the reapers' existance, that ammunition has gone, and there's nothing stopping the other races from simply putting humanity in its place and retaking the council  (humanity are too weak to retain power- the turians alone probably have a larger fleet). This leads me to believe that humanity scrapped the all-human council idea due to fears of losing their power.

So, to conclude, we will either be seeing an all-human council or a human-led council in Mass Effect 3, and the evidence seems to point to human-led (although the evidence is so ambiguous, BioWare could probably justify an all-human council in ME3 without making too many retcons).

Modifié par Bad King, 29 septembre 2011 - 12:11 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
There aren't any species benefiting from human rule. The only species benefiting from human rule is humanity.

Untrue.
Under the Human-led Council the volus are starting to gain some independence.

Two benefiting, three shafted. Still a net loss.

Quality over quantity; three are not necessarily better than two.

[ddv.rsa]

Bad King wrote...

Despite there being 2 variables for letting the council at the end of ME1 (all-human or human-led), the ME2 import doesn't pick up on this- there is only a flag for 'let the council die' and not the aftermath of this. If the council died, things are pretty ambiguous in ME2, however most of the hints point to it being human-led:

1). The intro text says 'human-led', not 'all-human'.
2). Udina is trying to build relations with the other council members (if they were all Alliance councillors, then there would be no need for him to build relations with them).
3). The council refuse to see Shepard as they believe that s/he put human interests ahead of those of the other races at the end of ME1, which implies to me that they are not humans (although they could just be humans who are apologists for the other races).
4). Joram Talid implies that there are aliens on the council who are puppets of humanity.
5). As for the 'former council races' news vid, this can be interpreted as meaning 'races of the former council' rather than 'races who are no longer on the council'. Basically it's a faster way of saying 'Turians, Salarians, and Asari' (the former council consisted of turians, salarians and asari and the new council consists of turians, salarians, asari and humans).
6). Speculation: an all-human council is simply inplausible- Udina at the end of ME1 states that the all-human council's ammunition for staying in power was the other races' fear of a reaper invasion (who would then flock behind a human council out of sheer terror). However, with the council denying the reapers' existance, that ammunition has gone, and there's nothing stopping the other races from simply putting humanity in its place and retaking the council  (humanity are too weak to retain power- the turians alone probably have a larger fleet). This leads me to believe that humanity scrapped the all-human council idea due to fears of losing their power.

So, to conclude, we will either be seeing an all-human council or a human-led council in Mass Effect 3, and the evidence seems to point to human-led (although the evidence is so ambiguous, BioWare could probably justify an all-human council in ME3 without making too many retcons).

An 'all-human council' import does change the intro text compared to a new game. Doesn't that show the game can pick up on the difference?

But if you're right that sucks. In that case why are aliens so resentful, and why can the Asari cede their share of defense responsbility? I thought Council races were obliged to contribute troops.

[Dave of Canada]

Barquiel wrote...

I doubt the volus will benefit from human rule.

They seem to be enjoying their new planet and partnership quite fine.

[ddv.rsa]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

I doubt the volus will benefit from human rule.

They seem to be enjoying their new planet and partnership quite fine.

New planet? Partnership?

[Dave of Canada]

ddv.rsa wrote...

New planet? Partnership?

Volus were given a new planet and have formed a partnership alongside the elcor with the human council, starting political rallies and such.

[Yezdigerd]

ddv.rsa wrote...

An 'all-human council' import does change the intro text compared to a new game. Doesn't that show the game can pick up on the difference?

But if you're right that sucks. In that case why are aliens so resentful, and why can the Asari cede their share of defense responsbility? I thought Council races were obliged to contribute troops.

They are probably upset by the railroading. USA, Russia and China face an alien invasion that Italy's puny forces is instrumental in stopping by being in the right place at the right time, as a result all other nations chose to defer to Italy's political and military leadership.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 29 septembre 2011 - 11:18 .

[Valdrane78]

Well lets take a look at it shall we, each choice and it's paragon and renegade action and what it does for us. This is just the major stuff, not all the piddly crap.

ME1
Noveria
Paragon: Save Rachni Queen
Renegade: Kill Rachni Queen
If you decide to kill her, then that is it you have taken her and any actions she may take out of the equation, end of line. However if you save her, on Illium you find out she is doing her best and that she is loyal to you. She will fight for you. The Rachni are a powerful people and you will do well to keep them alive. However, there is the very small chance they will become indoctrinated again and turn on you, but I doubt it.
Advantage: Paragon

Wrex
Paragon: Save Wrex
Renegade: Kill Wrex
Wrex is without a doubt, the most level headed Krogan in the galaxy. He wants what is best for his people, but doesn't know how to go about starting it. If you decide to save him, he begins to unite the Krogan spawning a new age for Krogan. However, if you kill him you get his brother Wreave, who is a traditionalist and is only out to strengthen Clan Urdnot.
Advantage: Neither, we have yet to find out how it will effect the overall arc.

The Council
Paragon: Save Council
Renegade: Kill Council outright
Neutral: Kill Sovereign
Saving the Council mends many bridges and allows humanity to gain the galaxies trust, but at the cost of way too many human lives, thus weakening humanity. Killing the Council outright tends to lead the other species to mistrust us and sparks an arms race between the Turians and Humanity, which could prove useful in the future. Going the neutral route, kills off the council but puts humanity on the fence, no one blames them outright, but it still sparks and arms race.
Advantage: Neither, time will tell, but I my personal opinion is that the advantage goes to the neutral choice.

ME2
Tuchanka
Paragon: Save Genophage research
Renegade: Destroy it
If you go ahead and decide to save the research, then there is a chance that Mordin can create a cure, and a chance that the Krogan will rejoice and give Shep and humanity their complete loyalty. But this greatly depends on if you let Wrex survive, under Wrex's leadership I believe that the Krogan will prosper and become a very valuable member of the galaxy, under Wreave, not so much. Destroying the cure will undoubtly ****** all the Krogan off and Mordin will have to start from scratch.
Advantage: Paragon

Migrant Fleet: Tali loyalty mission
Paragon: Defend her and win
Renegade: Defend her and loose
Tali can either be booted from the fleet or stay. We know that Tali is a major part of the fleet and an important ally within that fleet. The migrant fleet will be a major player in the future, and having her in that fleet could be a major boon to us. However, if she is exiled, you loose that ally within the fleet.
Advantage: unknown


Collector Base
Paragon: Destroy it
Renegade: Give it to Cerberus
You either destroy it an dno one learns all of it's secrets, or you save it and give it to the one grouyp who you KNOW will exploit the hell out of it only to the benefit of humanity.
Advantage: neither, yer screwed either way.

The Heretics
Paragon: Rewrite heretics
Renegade: Destroy heretic base
If you rewrite the heretics, the true Geth gain an advantage in numbers, albeit a very small gain. But the chances of the heretics ever comming back are almost 0, it does however put the Quarians at a disadvantage when the try to retake their homeworld. If you destroy the heretics, you help the Quarians in their fight, but you didn't get them all, and there is a chance they will rebuild. It is unclear however how the true Geth will take it. They are far more emotional than they first seem and destroying their brothers may have a negative impact.
Advantage: Renegade


Overall.  It looks in my opinion that the advantage goes to Paragons, but it is a very slim advantage, and coudl go either way.  My best guess is that each path willhave severalpossibilites and that neither willheavily effect the outcome.

Modifié par Valdrane78, 29 septembre 2011 - 01:28 .

[ddv.rsa]

I disagree with your views on the genophage cure and rachni queen.You talk about gaining allies while completely glossing over the dangers. You talk about Wrex uniting the Krogan, but curing the genophage would completely undermine any authority he might have. I also don't see why it would be particularly hard to indoctrinate the Rachni again, assuming the queen wasn't just lying.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Not worrying about contrived alignment systems makes the galaxy safer.

[Valdrane78]

ddv.rsa wrote...

I disagree with your views on the genophage cure and rachni queen.You talk about gaining allies while completely glossing over the dangers. You talk about Wrex uniting the Krogan, but curing the genophage would completely undermine any authority he might have. I also don't see why it would be particularly hard to indoctrinate the Rachni again, assuming the queen wasn't just lying.

Not if he is in on it, which he clearly is based on the gameplay trailors we have seen. He'll be hailed as a hero to the Krogan, the Warlord who helped cure the Genophage, causing even more clans to flock to his banner.  And I didn't gloss over a damn thing with the Rachni queen.  She already knows the score, knows that her ancestors were indoctrinated, I highly doubt they will fall for it again.