222 réponses à ce sujet

[Valdrane78]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Not worrying about contrived alignment systems makes the galaxy safer.

But it's part of the game none the less and the system, wether you like it or not is part of those major decisions.

[Dave of Canada]

Valdrane78 wrote...

Not if he is in on it, which he clearly is based on the gameplay trailors we have seen. He'll be hailed as a hero to the Krogan, the Warlord who helped cure the Genophage, causing even more clans to flock to his banner.

Except that isn't how the Krogan operate. Wrex is trying to restart their society and tries to keep their ferocity and love of combat at bay by holding all the females hostage, it's the only thing keeping him from being ripped to shreds.

Unless you'd honestly expect that the Krogan who enjoy killing each other would put away their nature because Wrex supposedly cured the genophage? Would they abandon their age old traditions?

Cure the Genophage and you sign the death warrant of Wrex and doom Krogan from ever becoming civilized, in addition to having rapidly expanding Krogan becoming a problem throughout the galaxy.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 29 septembre 2011 - 02:19 .

[Valdrane78]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

Not if he is in on it, which he clearly is based on the gameplay trailors we have seen. He'll be hailed as a hero to the Krogan, the Warlord who helped cure the Genophage, causing even more clans to flock to his banner.

Except that isn't how the Krogan operate. Wrex is trying to restart their society and tries to keep their ferocity and love of combat at bay by holding all the females hostage, it's the only thing keeping him from being ripped to shreds.

Unless you'd honestly expect that the Krogan who enjoy killing each other would put away their nature because Wrex supposedly cured the genophage? Would they abandon their age old traditions?

Cure the Genophage and you sign the death warrant of Wrex and doom Krogan from ever becoming civilized, in addition to having rapidly expanding Krogan becoming a problem throughout the galaxy.

I disagree, yes the Krogan are pissed off but I believe it would be overshadowed by curing the Genophage showing the Krogan that they are not alone that the galaxyy hasn't all turned their backs on them.  Will there be opposition, of course, but many clans agree with Wrex and not just because he is protecting the females, but because they want somethign more.  Give them focus, stop punishing them for past transgressions and watch them possibly flourish.  As you see, they can change, they can take care of their disagreements amicably and it's all because of Wrex.  You don't give the Korgan enough credit and they honestly deserve better.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

Not if he is in on it, which he clearly is based on the gameplay trailors we have seen. He'll be hailed as a hero to the Krogan, the Warlord who helped cure the Genophage, causing even more clans to flock to his banner.

Except that isn't how the Krogan operate. Wrex is trying to restart their society and tries to keep their ferocity and love of combat at bay by holding all the females hostage, it's the only thing keeping him from being ripped to shreds.

Unless you'd honestly expect that the Krogan who enjoy killing each other would put away their nature because Wrex supposedly cured the genophage? Would they abandon their age old traditions?

Cure the Genophage and you sign the death warrant of Wrex and doom Krogan from ever becoming civilized, in addition to having rapidly expanding Krogan becoming a problem throughout the galaxy.

Huh, doesn't seem to have much connection with what we actually see and hear and read in the game. 

For example, the females aren't being held hostage, it was practically their idea. 

Oh well.

[Bad King]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Despite there being 2 variables for letting the council at the end of ME1 (all-human or human-led), the ME2 import doesn't pick up on this- there is only a flag for 'let the council die' and not the aftermath of this. If the council died, things are pretty ambiguous in ME2, however most of the hints point to it being human-led:

1). The intro text says 'human-led', not 'all-human'.
2). Udina is trying to build relations with the other council members (if they were all Alliance councillors, then there would be no need for him to build relations with them).
3). The council refuse to see Shepard as they believe that s/he put human interests ahead of those of the other races at the end of ME1, which implies to me that they are not humans (although they could just be humans who are apologists for the other races).
4). Joram Talid implies that there are aliens on the council who are puppets of humanity.
5). As for the 'former council races' news vid, this can be interpreted as meaning 'races of the former council' rather than 'races who are no longer on the council'. Basically it's a faster way of saying 'Turians, Salarians, and Asari' (the former council consisted of turians, salarians and asari and the new council consists of turians, salarians, asari and humans).
6). Speculation: an all-human council is simply inplausible- Udina at the end of ME1 states that the all-human council's ammunition for staying in power was the other races' fear of a reaper invasion (who would then flock behind a human council out of sheer terror). However, with the council denying the reapers' existance, that ammunition has gone, and there's nothing stopping the other races from simply putting humanity in its place and retaking the council  (humanity are too weak to retain power- the turians alone probably have a larger fleet). This leads me to believe that humanity scrapped the all-human council idea due to fears of losing their power.

So, to conclude, we will either be seeing an all-human council or a human-led council in Mass Effect 3, and the evidence seems to point to human-led (although the evidence is so ambiguous, BioWare could probably justify an all-human council in ME3 without making too many retcons).

An 'all-human council' import does change the intro text compared to a new game. Doesn't that show the game can pick up on the difference?

But if you're right that sucks. In that case why are aliens so resentful, and why can the Asari cede their share of defense responsbility? I thought Council races were obliged to contribute troops.

It doesn't. Whether you imported a game with an all-human council or a human-led council, the intros have the exact same text (this is because there's only one flag which is 'dead council' - it doesn't specify the state of the new council). However, starting a new game in ME2 without importing (default dead council) gives you slightly different intro text for some reason. As for why the aliens are so resentful, that's due to the fact that the council is dominated by humanity. Although all four species are represented, they are not equally represented.

[Dave of Canada]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Huh, doesn't seem to have much connection with what we actually see and hear and read in the game. 

For example, the females aren't being held hostage, it was practically their idea. 

Oh well.

I mean they're held hostage as in... Clan Whatshisface invades Clan Urdnot, the other clans have to defend Urdnot because Urdnot holds all the females.

[Dave of Canada]

Valdrane78 wrote...

You don't give the Korgan enough credit and they honestly deserve better.

I think you're giving them too much credit, the species which decided to invade Council space and wouldn't have been stopped without the Genophage wouldn't change no matter how much they feel they aren't "alone". Considering they were practically heroes before the genophage was deployed.

[Aumata]

Wrex doesn't is screwed if the krogan get the genophage, wreave getting the genophage on the other hand gives him the advantage as he is traditionalist. As Dave pointed out, the only reason why Wrex is dead is because of the genophage, cure it and he loses his power, and the krogan goes back to the way they started. Wreave on the other hand does have the advantage. The Rachni I honestly can't tell which is right, considering that Bioware made them both appear even if you kill the Rachni or not.

[Bad King]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

You don't give the Korgan enough credit and they honestly deserve better.

I think you're giving them too much credit, the species which decided to invade Council space and wouldn't have been stopped without the Genophage wouldn't change no matter how much they feel they aren't "alone". Considering they were practically heroes before the genophage was deployed.

Not to mention the attrocities they committed during that war (such as dropping asteroids on turian worlds). It appears that the krogan are biologically predisposed to violence:

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Aliens:_Non-Council_Races#Krogan:_Blood_Rage

Modifié par Bad King, 30 septembre 2011 - 12:30 .

[RyuujinZERO]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

You don't give the Korgan enough credit and they honestly deserve better.

I think you're giving them too much credit, the species which decided to invade Council space and wouldn't have been stopped without the Genophage wouldn't change no matter how much they feel they aren't "alone". Considering they were practically heroes before the genophage was deployed.

Personally, the reason I'll be seeking to "fix" the genophage isn't out of morality or kindness, but the knowledge that if we're to beat the reapers then in theory (given their past record of wiping out the galaxy succesfully) we're gonna have to pull out every stop to have even the slightest chance of success. A krogan dominated galaxy is still an improvement on a reaper dominated one

[GodWood]

RyuujinZERO wrote...
Personally, the reason I'll be seeking to "fix" the genophage isn't out of morality or kindness, but the knowledge that if we're to beat the reapers then in theory (given their past record of wiping out the galaxy succesfully) we're gonna have to pull out every stop to have even the slightest chance of success. A krogan dominated galaxy is still an improvement on a reaper dominated one

The amount of time it'd take to have the krogan breed, give birth, raise and then train their young only to use them as ground troops takes away any 'pragmatic' reason to cure it.
All your doing is wasting your time and (if you even survive) creating a massive future problem.

It'd be smarter just to continue Okeer's work and create an army of clones.

[Collider]

I assume the utility of having the genophage cured would be to rally the krogan, because they have a future to look forward to should they survive the reaper assault.

[RyuujinZERO]

GodWood wrote...

The amount of time it'd take to have the krogan breed, give birth, raise and then train their young only to use them as ground troops takes away any 'pragmatic' reason to cure it.
All your doing is wasting your time and (if you even survive) creating a massive future problem.

It'd be smarter just to continue Okeer's work and create an army of clones.

It took the protheans centuries to be truly eradicated. The krogan are a hardy lot and proven difficult to eradicate, they might well be the spacefaring equivalent to a cockroach for the reapers, turning up and breeding rapidly in regions thought cleansed decades down the line ...


...cockroaches with guns, armour and two pairs of balls of steel each

[Killjoy Cutter]

GodWood wrote...

RyuujinZERO wrote...
Personally, the reason I'll be seeking to "fix" the genophage isn't out of morality or kindness, but the knowledge that if we're to beat the reapers then in theory (given their past record of wiping out the galaxy succesfully) we're gonna have to pull out every stop to have even the slightest chance of success. A krogan dominated galaxy is still an improvement on a reaper dominated one

The amount of time it'd take to have the krogan breed, give birth, raise and then train their young only to use them as ground troops takes away any 'pragmatic' reason to cure it.
All your doing is wasting your time and (if you even survive) creating a massive future problem.

It'd be smarter just to continue Okeer's work and create an army of clones.

Offering up a cure for the genophage isn't about breeding an army, it's about rallying the existing Krogan to your cause. 

[Valdrane78]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

You don't give the Korgan enough credit and they honestly deserve better.

I think you're giving them too much credit, the species which decided to invade Council space and wouldn't have been stopped without the Genophage wouldn't change no matter how much they feel they aren't "alone". Considering they were practically heroes before the genophage was deployed.

And the Genophage just made it worse, yes there aren't as many Krogan, but they are more pissed off than ever.  On top of the cure, you have Wrex who is leading them in a new, less violent direction which seems to be working, albeit slowly. 

Lets also get the obvious out of the way, the Turians used a biological weapon to win a war,  which is a war crime.  The slow genocide of a people is still genocide no matter how you look at it, the Genophage is crushing anything that the Krogan can become.  And what happens when mother nature takes it's course and the Krogan begin to adapt to it.  The STG modifies it, doing it all over again.

Don't you think they atleast deserve the chance to prove that they can become productive members of galactic society?

[ddv.rsa]

Valdrane78 wrote...

Don't you think they atleast deserve the chance to prove that they can become productive members of galactic society?

They had a chance and they blew it.

[ddv.rsa]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Offering up a cure for the genophage isn't about breeding an army, it's about rallying the existing Krogan to your cause. 

Not worth it imo. The existing Krogan are relatively few in number, and since they lack a navy all they can contribute is infantry. Aside from the fact that infantry will do little to defeat the Reapers, they are not exactly in short supply. The Alliance Marines, Turian Legions, Asari Huntresses, etc. are all available. Probably with superior numbers, training and equipment.

[naledgeborn]

Renegade. However it makes the galaxy unsafe for any human outside the Sol system. Paragon is a hell of a gamble, but humans are more accepted by the rest of the galaxy. Pick your poison.

[Aumata]

It's a war crime to stop a overaggressive species that breeds like rats, and spread like a locust horde, through modifying there genes to a safe level? It is not a sterility plague and Wrex said it best in Mass Effect 1, the only reason the Krogan are dying is because they refuse to try to populate their species instead they opt for doing the same or giving up. As far as I am concern they deserved to die off if that is they response. Good thing Wrex is doing what should have been done some time ago, but the unfortunate thing is that it is all bad timing on his part.

[Orpehus]

Both can help I think, renegades lead to a safer galaxy (Less threats) and Paragon leads to a peaceful one (More alliances).
In the end though Paragon probably works better because Shepard cant kill every villain in the galaxy but he can make more Heros. Its seems to be Paragon has confirmed slight peace and renegade has a gamble, everything or nothing. How much are you willing to gamble.

[Collider]

I may say that renegon may work better. Get rid of threats, but support the council and be diplomatic with the other races.

[Arcadian Legend]

 

Lets be honest, almost every time a thread like this pops uo it leads to a huge morality arguement over which one is better. I honestly don't think they will reward or punish either side, but that doesn't mean that your actions will be ignored either. Hopefully. :innocent:

[tjzsf]

Neither. Paragade.
Philosophies serve people, not the other way around.