472 réponses à ce sujet

[zazally]

I am doing a playthrough as a mage and I am coming close to the deep roads exhibition in act 1 and for some reason through out the whole of act 1 I have been killing a lot of mages and I have been helping the templars which is something that doesn't feel right. I want to be killing the templars and saving the mages since I find it sick and disgusting as to what they do to mages have I done something wrong? or will I get my chance to kill templars and become enemies with them in act 2 or act 3? I don't mind spoilers but if they are towards the end of act 3 please keep them to yourselves since I haven't finished the game yet I got close but restarted since I wanted to be a mage.


Thank you so much in advance look forward to reading some helpful replies

To let you know exactly where I got up to it was the quest where I had to help merill repair her mirror in act 3

Modifié par zazally, 27 septembre 2011 - 07:31 .

[Dr. rotinaj]

Don't worry, you'll be killing many templars later on.

[Gervaise]

The balance shifts backwards and forwards so if this is your first run through, play it as your conscience dictates and you should be fine.

[zazally]

Dr. rotinaj wrote...

Don't worry, you'll be killing many templars later on.

Does Bioware let you do certain dialogue options that makes them more hostile towards you? because in act 1 I felt so bad helping my enemies I fet like I was Jesus.

Modifié par zazally, 27 septembre 2011 - 07:33 .

[caradoc2000]

They'll be more hostile.

[zazally]

caradoc2000 wrote...

They'll be more hostile.

So I should just finish act 1 and don't worry about it?

Modifié par zazally, 27 septembre 2011 - 07:37 .

[caradoc2000]

Just continue, you'll get the chance to pick sides.

[TastesLikeTNT]

Don't worry about it. Side with the mages whenever you can, and you'll be right as peaches.

[dragonflight288]

Just take each situation and consider who is presenting what information. Each character has an agenda and what they feel is right. Most of them are loyal Andrastians and Chantry worshipers and so their opinions are shaped by that.

[LobselVith8]

Unfortunately, the narrative does have a tendency of preventing the protagonist from doing certain actions that he may feel inclined to pursue, especially when it comes to mages and templars. Your Hawke will have the chance to make some choices in favor of mages in Act III.

[Drasanil]

You'll have the opportunity to kill templars later on.... but considering how rage inducingly stupid the mages get in later acts you might not want to. Thinking of a certain some one you save in a certain act who shows up later and wants to kill you because you saved them *derp*

[zazally]

Thanks guys for keeping it spoiler free also thank you for replying I enjoyed reading what you all had to say I am now going to finish act 1 feeling a bit more relieved

[BioFan (Official)]

the whole game is pretty much made for you to side with the templars. supporting the mages, regarless of class just doesnt work.....

but if u play as a templar supporter, the story runs in a way that seems like it was meant to. (NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS BIOWARE)

[Morroian]

Ericander77 wrote...

the whole game is pretty much made for you to side with the templars. supporting the mages, regarless of class just doesnt work.....

Yeah it does when you consider what Meredith is actually planning to do, especially if Bethany is in the circle.

[TastesLikeTNT]

Ericander77 wrote...

the whole game is pretty much made for you to side with the templars. supporting the mages, regarless of class just doesnt work.....

but if u play as a templar supporter, the story runs in a way that seems like it was meant to. (NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS BIOWARE)

Really? I felt the opposite, especially given Hawke's lineage. I wish they had portrayed the mage/templar situation more like they did in Origins, because then I'd be able to actually make a templar-supporting character while it's impossible for me to do so in Dragon Age 2.

[Nimrodell]

Ericander77 wrote...

the whole game is pretty much made for you to side with the templars. supporting the mages, regarless of class just doesnt work.....

but if u play as a templar supporter, the story runs in a way that seems like it was meant to. (NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS BIOWARE)

Actually, the game works almost just like real life and dominant media you have. One needs to be more liberal, with broader views in order to see behind 'templar wall'. Chantry's teachings are dominant 'media' in Kirkwall - meaning, magic is regarded as dangerous and that's the starting point for majority. Dominant media says something is bad or dangerous or evil and usually the majority abides by it. It has been always like that.

Even bigger problem is that actual templar abuses are hidden pretty well while mage abuses are more visible and tangible (one can see templar abuse in Act 1 - with Karl and then, again connected to Anders - Ella - everything else is more like hints, for example Carver's letter or Bethany's letter if they were left home). We don't get actually to see what Meredith and her zealots are doing - we just vaguely hear about it from Thrask, Kerran, Samson and Cullen - but that's the trick, we hear about it, not see it, it doesn't affect us personally. Where, from the very start we see with our own eyes mages gone evil - Tharone, Quentin, Decimus, Gascard DuPuis (unless Hawke is actually open-minded, then Gascard is actually something that shows that mages can control themselves), Evelyne, Huon...

To make that situation looking even more like true 'leap of faith' - your own companions fortify the sense of 'mages always go evil' - Anders and Merril - and that's where actually majority of players failed - seeing only ending result without considering what led to it and who else is responsible for such outcomes. For instance, in Merill's case, either she's a friend or rival, it all comes to one thing - either her clan didn't believe in her or Hawke didn't.

To cut the story short - tis like in real life and what you hear from your own pre-dominant media, that's what forms the picture - let me use 'Iron Curtain' example (won't go into more recent history). Western media were forming one image of people living in Eastern block and Eastern block media did the same. In West people thought that all comunists are prone to totalitarism, have bad taste in clothing and don't even have simple things like soaps or shampoo (yup, it went to such trivial things) and that poverty is something that is mandatory. And people from the East thought that capitalists are evil, decadent, selfish (ah I still remember the stories about New York and people dying there on streets, no one stopping to help them - rich or poor - and by standers just leaving their corpses there without even a wink lol). Occasional media picture was just cementing those ridiculous beliefs. Thank God, there were always people with broader views on both sides aware that good and evil happens on both sides and that individuals are responsible not a collective. But yes, that's how it works.

The only problem I see in DA2 and feeling that mages were depicted as 'going evil' is exactly that - not having enough palpable scenes of templar abuses - pro templar Hawke should have been allowed to doubt her/himself, just like pro mage Hawke was. All templar abuses are too intangible, too hidden, in theory, in 'what someone told me' not in 'what I've seen with my own eyes'.

[Gervaise]

The real problem in DA2 is that the moderate people are killed off or betrayed, including Hawke if that is how you play them. There is no third way and at the end you are told in no uncertain terms that this is the case - the companion's words clearly mirror the intentions of the writers. However, real life shows us that ultimately compromise is inevitable if you do not want to be constantly at war - which really benefits no one. With some big evils, like the Blight/Darkspawn, there is no compromise (although the sparing the Architect could be classed as such) which is why the Grey Wardens are never totally superfluous even if there is no Archdemon raging across the lands. But inspite of the writers polarising views on chantry/templars and mages into them and us. it really is not that simple and I live in hope that this will be redressed in subsequent releases.

[schalafi]

***SLIGHT SPOILER ALERT***



If there was to be a mage/templar conflict and we were to take sides, as the game dictates pretty clearly, then there should have been a choice in the third act, to have one side win. There was no resolution at all in this game, it was a lose-lose situation, and I think that was it's biggest flaw.

Modifié par schalafi, 28 septembre 2011 - 04:00 .

[Porenferser]

So being a mage is all about killing templars for some people, ha?

Modifié par Porenferser, 28 septembre 2011 - 06:46 .

[LobselVith8]

Porenferser wrote...

So being a mage is all about killing templars for some people, ha?

I think being a mage protagonist, for some people, is about having the opportunity to protect and help the mages, even if it's from templars and the Chantry. If you consider that some view the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery, then some people aren't likely to support the Chantry of Andraste or its Order of Templars. If you consider that some people want their protagonist Hawke to protect mages from the templars, then it's likely part of what these people would want their respective pro-mage Hawkes to do. 

Of course, there are stupid and insane mage antagonists in the narrative, but I don't see that as enough of a reason to condemn every mage.

[dragonflight288]

So being a mage is all about killing templars for some people, ha?

What almost every pro-mage player has issues with isn't "Templars and Chantry is evil, Mages are pure and innocent" crap. It's "there's a problem with the current system that punishes people whose only crime is existing. And the one in charge is punishing an entire group for the actions of a single apostate not even a part of the circle."

Yes, there are blood mages, yes there are abominations. But at the time Meredith is presenting an ultimatum to Hawke, she can produce absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the Circle is full of blood mages.

And we as players don't see enough of the Circle from within. We only see apostates and a templar led rebellion. And Meredith accuses the Champion of being influenced by blood magic because there's no evidence Orsino was involved. She is desperately looking for an excuse to Annul the circle.

Thrask was a good guy. Cullen I can respect (regardless of people's opinions on him not standing up to Meredith until the end). Greigore has nothing but honest respect from me. Ser Bryant who can spot the Warden being a mage on first glance but chooses to ignore it in favor of the Darkspawn has my respect too. As does Ser Otto in the alienage.

But I cannot respect or even attempt to do so to someone like Meredith, Alrik, or Kerras. They punish mages for crimes committed by others (Meredith), minor misdemeanors (Alrik) or even outright brutality far exceeding the actual crime (Kerras). It is those kind of templars mage supporters hate. And the current system by the Chantry allows them to come to power, and then misuse it.

[Porenferser]

I was responding to the bull**** written in the first few posts (*I want to kill more templars*).

Also, you don't have to tell me.
Even I as a Templar-Supporter know that subjects like Alrik und Meredith have to be removed.
But I don't agree about what you say about the circle.
imO the Kirkwall-Circle was rotten to the root.
Just look at how many abominations and Bloodmages you have to fight at the end in the gallows.
That one scene really made me laugh, where the templars where about to execute that girl, crying *I am innocent! I have done nothing wrong* (or something like that) and moments later it turned into an Abomination:D
Yeah, pretty much nothing that you have done wrong^^

[Gemini1179]

Porenferser wrote...

I was responding to the bull**** written in the first few posts (*I want to kill more templars*).

Also, you don't have to tell me.
Even I as a Templar-Supporter know that subjects like Alrik und Meredith have to be removed.
But I don't agree about what you say about the circle.
imO the Kirkwall-Circle was rotten to the root.
Just look at how many abominations and Bloodmages you have to fight at the end in the gallows.
That one scene really made me laugh, where the templars where about to execute that girl, crying *I am innocent! I have done nothing wrong* (or something like that) and moments later it turned into an Abomination:D
Yeah, pretty much nothing that you have done wrong^^

Templars and the Chantry have created a culture of fear over Magic and magic users. Neither attempt to foster a positive culture in that regard. Fear weakens the will, when the will is weak, the demon pounces. So who's at fault, the lion, or the lion handler who whips him?

It's the old case of who polices the police? Clearly Elthina was incapable of it as she was unaware of Patrice's obvious mechinations, and neither her nor Meredith seemed to be on top of the Ser Alrik situation.

The funny thing is that Isabela has probably the most-level headed view on the whole Mage/Templar/Anders Intentions debate in the game. It's all about perspective: Anders sees the world through the eyes of the oppressed, Meredith sees it through the eyes of the fearful, and someone like Fenris sees the world through hate.

Fenris, near the end of the game, during a conversation with Meredith (if you let her know how you feel the Templars are bringing things upon themselves) says "Even after the crimes they've committed." Here is where his perspective skews things, what he says can be analgous to Hawke giving sending him back into slavery for his 'crime' of escaping. It's all about perspective in this game.

Modifié par Gemini1179, 29 septembre 2011 - 07:50 .

[dragonflight288]

And we don't know how many of those blood mages in the final battle are only using it out of desperation to survive the Annulment. Nor do we know how many have actually been practicing for some time.

Again...Meredith gives us no evidence.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

And we don't know how many of those blood mages in the final battle are only using it out of desperation to survive the Annulment. Nor do we know how many have actually been practicing for some time.

Again...Meredith gives us no evidence.

You don't learn blood magic instantaniously. ALL the practioners we run into must have been using it even before the annulment were called, which only serves to proove that the Circle was rotten from the core. Make no mistake, even the Templars of Kirkwall were bad, but the broad consensus of "poor mages, they are oh so innocent" that seems to be accepted, is entirely wrong. The mages were just as much of the problem as the Templars.