125 réponses à ce sujet

[expanding panic]

I belive I read on the Dragon Age Wiki that if you don't recruit Leliana in DAO then she remains in Lothering and dies when the Blight reaches Lothering. So my question is this if you don't recruit her is there another Sister or  is it Still Leliana?

[csfteeeer]

it's still Leliana, the devs brought her back.
What you did doesn't matter (regarding her).

[whykikyouwhy]

I'm unable to check the wiki right now, but that information may come from two sources - the epilogue slides and codex entries. It's been stated before (by devs, I believe) that the epilogue slides are not canon. So too, codex entries are often authored by NPCs, such as Brother Geniviti - in which case, those character-authors may or may not be writing the truth, or may only be writing the truth as they understand it.

EDIT: I was able to check the wiki after all, and on her character page, there is this: "It is confirmed, however, that she does survive the Blight, regardless of the Warden's actions." (Intentional bolding on my part.)

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 28 septembre 2011 - 12:08 .

[TJPags]

Yea, epilogue slides, well, see my sig.

Leliana specifically - she's unkillable because she's apparently vital to the story. Or some nonsense like that.

[blothulfur]

My warden wore her hollowed out skull as a codpiece, will she miss this and is her new head misshaped?

[whykikyouwhy]

blothulfur wrote...

My warden wore her hollowed out skull as a codpiece, will she miss this and is her new head misshaped?

Pics or it didn't happen.

[blothulfur]

Don't think my warden owns a camera.

[whykikyouwhy]

blothulfur wrote...

Don't think my warden owns a camera.

You'd think that the Hero of Fereldan would front for a decent portrait artist. What a shame.

[CrimsonZephyr]

blothulfur wrote...

My warden wore her hollowed out skull as a codpiece, will she miss this and is her new head misshaped?

Her head as a codpiece, eh? So, I take it she gave you head, so to speak?

[blothulfur]

I just can't get you out of my head, la la la.

[Complistic]

blothulfur wrote...

My warden wore her hollowed out skull as a codpiece, will she miss this and is her new head misshaped?

You've been playing too much Witcher.



If that were possible, that is.

Modifié par Complistic, 28 septembre 2011 - 02:50 .

[thats1evildude]

That's a pretty dumb thing to say, Blothulfur. Besides the effort it takes to render a human head, a skull would be the last thing I'd want to cup my junk with; it's unsightly and damn uncomfortable to boot.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 28 septembre 2011 - 03:14 .

[blothulfur]

Well I bloody like it. My warden sits back at camp sipping wine from the drinking bowl he made out of Wynnes skull and feels a keen sense of companionship. Friends and family should always be kept near.

[enderandrew]

In my DA:O playthrough, I romanced Leliana. She and the Warden agreed to stay together. That story got imported into DA:2, but with no explanation she and the Warden split.

I really liked Leilana, but I'd have preferred that she only show up if she wasn't with the Warden.

[IanPolaris]

I think it was blatent disrespect on the part of Bioware to their customers. If Lelianna could die in DAO, then she should stay dead, and another Seeker should have taken her place. This is BW's developers taking a dump on their customers and disrespecting them.

-Polaris

[enderandrew]

IanPolaris wrote...

I think it was blatent disrespect on the part of Bioware to their customers. If Lelianna could die in DAO, then she should stay dead, and another Seeker should have taken her place. This is BW's developers taking a dump on their customers and disrespecting them.

-Polaris

And if her ending in DA:O was to stay with the Warden, and suddenly having them apart with no explanation also effectively eliminates the choice the player made.

Complex/branching stories are not easy to tell. So I don't think I'd go so far as to say this is taking a dump on the customer. At some point you can't have everything branch over and over again.

[IanPolaris]

enderandrew wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

I think it was blatent disrespect on the part of Bioware to their customers. If Lelianna could die in DAO, then she should stay dead, and another Seeker should have taken her place. This is BW's developers taking a dump on their customers and disrespecting them.

-Polaris

And if her ending in DA:O was to stay with the Warden, and suddenly having them apart with no explanation also effectively eliminates the choice the player made.

Complex/branching stories are not easy to tell. So I don't think I'd go so far as to say this is taking a dump on the customer. At some point you can't have everything branch over and over again.

I would say it's dumping on the customer. It's a blatenant an unapolegetic retcon that says quite blatently that "Hell with you customer, your game and your choices don't matter" (which is poison to an RPG).  It was also totally unncessary.  I see nothing intrinstic about the Lelianna character that requires her presence in "Faith" or even as head of the Seekers.  The game should have had a binary switch.  Either Lelianna was available or she was not.  If she was, then by all means use her.  If not, then use some other Chantry Affirmed Sister.  It's not that hard.

-Polaris

[enderandrew]

IanPolaris wrote...

enderandrew wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

I think it was blatent disrespect on the part of Bioware to their customers. If Lelianna could die in DAO, then she should stay dead, and another Seeker should have taken her place. This is BW's developers taking a dump on their customers and disrespecting them.

-Polaris

And if her ending in DA:O was to stay with the Warden, and suddenly having them apart with no explanation also effectively eliminates the choice the player made.

Complex/branching stories are not easy to tell. So I don't think I'd go so far as to say this is taking a dump on the customer. At some point you can't have everything branch over and over again.

I would say it's dumping on the customer. It's a blatenant an unapolegetic retcon that says quite blatently that "Hell with you customer, your game and your choices don't matter" (which is poison to an RPG).  It was also totally unncessary.  I see nothing intrinstic about the Lelianna character that requires her presence in "Faith" or even as head of the Seekers.  The game should have had a binary switch.  Either Lelianna was available or she was not.  If she was, then by all means use her.  If not, then use some other Chantry Affirmed Sister.  It's not that hard.

-Polaris

There are plenty of linear RPGs where you are given a pre-created character and you follow a linear path with few choices at all. Most Bioware games provide a great deal of choice, but that isn't necessarily the norm for every RPG on the planet.

I think you're overreacting a bit.

[IanPolaris]

enderandrew wrote...

There are plenty of linear RPGs where you are given a pre-created character and you follow a linear path with few choices at all. Most Bioware games provide a great deal of choice, but that isn't necessarily the norm for every RPG on the planet.

I think you're overreacting a bit.

I am not at all.  Those linear games are advertised as such (and I don't really consider them RPGs at all but that's another topic I think).  As such, your choice is not disrespected because you aren't given one.

In this case you ARE given a choice and then the Devs dump on it.  That's far worse and without excuse.

-Polaris

[enderandrew]

The term RPG in video games simply refers to stat-based gameplay. When GTA:SA allowed to get fat or muscular, it had RPG-elements. I know there are camps of people who want RPG to mean fantasy, or branching story, or simply imagining yourself in the role of a character.

However, all RPG means as far as video game genre definitions is stat-based gameplay. That is why Nethack is as much an RPG as Baldur's Gate as is Final Fantasy as is Diablo.

[IanPolaris]

enderandrew wrote...

The term RPG in video games simply refers to stat-based gameplay. When GTA:SA allowed to get fat or muscular, it had RPG-elements. I know there are camps of people who want RPG to mean fantasy, or branching story, or simply imagining yourself in the role of a character.

However, all RPG means as far as video game genre definitions is stat-based gameplay. That is why Nethack is as much an RPG as Baldur's Gate as is Final Fantasy as is Diablo.

I disagree with you.  I belong to one of those camps but that is irrelevant for this threat.  The POINT is that the Devs gave us a choice and then retconned it away.  That is inexcusable and the ultimate in disrespect. 

-Polaris

[enderandrew]

IanPolaris wrote...

enderandrew wrote...

The term RPG in video games simply refers to stat-based gameplay. When GTA:SA allowed to get fat or muscular, it had RPG-elements. I know there are camps of people who want RPG to mean fantasy, or branching story, or simply imagining yourself in the role of a character.

However, all RPG means as far as video game genre definitions is stat-based gameplay. That is why Nethack is as much an RPG as Baldur's Gate as is Final Fantasy as is Diablo.

I disagree with you.  I belong to one of those camps but that is irrelevant for this threat.  The POINT is that the Devs gave us a choice and then retconned it away.  That is inexcusable and the ultimate in disrespect. 

-Polaris

The ULTIMATE disrespect?

It was the absolute worst thing in the world that they could have done that while most of your choices from the first game are carried over, not every possible scenario was accounted for? Clearly they meant to "dump" on their players as you put it.

As I type this, the devs are thinking of even worse ways to disrespect you further. It is their primary goal.

[IanPolaris]

enderandrew wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

enderandrew wrote...

The term RPG in video games simply refers to stat-based gameplay. When GTA:SA allowed to get fat or muscular, it had RPG-elements. I know there are camps of people who want RPG to mean fantasy, or branching story, or simply imagining yourself in the role of a character.

However, all RPG means as far as video game genre definitions is stat-based gameplay. That is why Nethack is as much an RPG as Baldur's Gate as is Final Fantasy as is Diablo.

I disagree with you.  I belong to one of those camps but that is irrelevant for this threat.  The POINT is that the Devs gave us a choice and then retconned it away.  That is inexcusable and the ultimate in disrespect. 

-Polaris

The ULTIMATE disrespect?

It was the absolute worst thing in the world that they could have done that while most of your choices from the first game are carried over, not every possible scenario was accounted for? Clearly they meant to "dump" on their players as you put it.

As I type this, the devs are thinking of even worse ways to disrespect you further. It is their primary goal.

Not Accounted For ==/== Changed to what the Deveoper wanted.

If you can't see the difference than I can't help you.

-Polaris

[whykikyouwhy]

IanPolaris wrote...
The POINT is that the Devs gave us a choice and then retconned it away.  That is inexcusable and the ultimate in disrespect. 

-Polaris

I find it mildly amusing (perhaps in a sick, sad way) that it's being perceived that the devs are being disrespectful to the players (especially when you could put the "disrespect" label to the vitriol often flung at them).

The Dragon Age franchise is Bioware's story - theirs, not ours. We're renters, the audience that gets to play a bit in their world, but it ultimately remains their world. Therefore, their rules, and their plot, their narrative.

Because I'm tired and the coffee hasn't kicked in, I'm going to copy and paste some stuff that I wrote in one of the other Leliana-specific rants threads (which may be egotistical of me, but whatever...):

If the devs' intent was to have her continue on, to me, that is not a retcon. Her perceived death syncs up with numerous possibilities for how it can be explained away (we've already been witness to wondrous things in-game - marvels of magic, demons, the Fade, etc. Nothing is ever simple in the DA-verse. Nothing is ever face-value.). I don't need an explanation as to why she is alive right after she supposedly dies. The explanation can come later. That doesn't take away from the story, for me, because obviously there was a reason why she was supposed to be alive. She has a special purpose.

The option to kill her in DA:O is not about her death so much as it is about how you play your Warden. The Warden walks away from her body after killing her - walks away without disposing of the body (how atypical!!!), without looking back, etc. So all manner of things could have happened when you were making your way down the mountain. That doesn't take away from the choice to kill her (which was really a choice to defile the ashes) - you chose, you acted, and perhaps the moral of the story here is that in the workings of the DA-world, you chose poorly. Good or bad, you made a choice, but just because you choose, in a game or in real life, doesn't mean that the universe will shift to accommodate you.

So...I see no evidence of disrespect. I see storytellers weaving their tale by firelight. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me, and that's fine - this is all player opinion. Until a dev comes by and says "this is why we did this, and this is why Leliana shows up in DA2", I'm not going to begrudge them anything in this matter. Why should I?
 

[IanPolaris]

That isn't true. If you kill Lelianna, you ARE given the option to loot and dispose of the body. As such this is a blatent retcon and thus dumping on the player is exactly what this is.

-Polaris