429 réponses à ce sujet

[seraphymon]

Persephone wrote...

chitek23 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

So let's cut that out, shall we?

the ridiculous, exploding enemies? the childish blood fountain?

yes, please. cut that out.

Done. All one has to use is Patch 1.03. The official patch available for all platforms. For months, no less.

That patch doesnt get rid of it, it just makes it so love taps dont cause it to happen, but it still happens alot during later lvls.

[Mr.House]

TW2 had exploding enemies.

[Mr.House]

seraphymon wrote...

Persephone wrote...

chitek23 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

So let's cut that out, shall we?

the ridiculous, exploding enemies? the childish blood fountain?

yes, please. cut that out.

Done. All one has to use is Patch 1.03. The official patch available for all platforms. For months, no less.

That patch doesnt get rid of it, it just makes it so love taps dont cause it to happen, but it still happens alot during later lvls.

The only time I see it is if I use walknig bomb, crushing prison, mighty blow or a very strong attack. So yes it's fixed in DA2.

[cruelgretchen]

[edit: off topic fighting deleted]

Modifié par casamar, 07 octobre 2011 - 05:47 .

[seraphymon]

No it isnt. Because it still there. walking bomb as i see it should be the only one that warrants people to explode, as in DAO that was good. But in here any strong enough ability will cause an explosion. Its just no auto attacks or love taps will cause it. Regardless the point is that the explosion deaths like everything else is just too over the top, and childish.

[Mr.House]

seraphymon wrote...

No it isnt. Because it still there. walking bomb as i see it should be the only one that warrants people to explode, as in DAO that was good. But in here any strong enough ability will cause an explosion. Its just no auto attacks or love taps will cause it. Regardless the point is that the explosion deaths like everything else is just too over the top, and childish.

You when the bomb goes off you see a mist of gore but the body is still there in tact?

I don't see explosions that much anymore so maybe it's just your version.

[Persephone]

seraphymon wrote...

No it isnt. Because it still there. walking bomb as i see it should be the only one that warrants people to explode, as in DAO that was good. But in here any strong enough ability will cause an explosion. Its just no auto attacks or love taps will cause it. Regardless the point is that the explosion deaths like everything else is just too over the top, and childish.

A fatal hit still causes it, yes. Same as in....OMG....Baldur's Gate I&II. Is that game "kiddie" too? 

And if it bothers you THAT much, there is a mod to get rid of it or have it happen with WB exclusively. It's been out for months as well.

[Mr.House]

Persephone wrote...

seraphymon wrote...

No it isnt. Because it still there. walking bomb as i see it should be the only one that warrants people to explode, as in DAO that was good. But in here any strong enough ability will cause an explosion. Its just no auto attacks or love taps will cause it. Regardless the point is that the explosion deaths like everything else is just too over the top, and childish.

A fatal hit still causes it, yes. Same as in....OMG....Baldur's Gate I&II. Is that game "kiddie" too? 

And if it bothers you THAT much, there is a mod to get rid of it or have it happen with WB exclusively. It's been out for months as well.

That mod also stacks with the patch so the chances of it happing outside certain spells/talents are very very rare now.

Modifié par Mr.House, 07 octobre 2011 - 05:02 .

[Persephone]

cruelgretchen wrote...

DA2 meant for testing how much RPG enthusiasts are willing to take .
And the fanboys here are doing a great job supporting the idea of having a main RPG with laughable 20 hours game entertainment and buying 1 hour DLC's money magnets blindfolded.

Speak for yourself.

Personally, I am sick of the "RPG" elitism. And I've played RPGs since the Might and Magic Series. (Which, according to most RPG fans here cannot even be called an RPG....funny, that.)

[csfteeeer]

Persephone wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Issues that are part of DAII's storyline: Abuse, Rape, torture, insanity, a serial killer preying on children, another serial killer preying on women, mass murder, terrorism, fanaticism.....

And had the combat been about pixels fighting each other using flowers, I would never recommend DAII to anyone under 18 because of these things.

you say that as if just having those things makes DA2 adult.

it doesn't.

It sure does. Like DAII or not, it is not a game for kids.

No, what i'm saying is that, JUST having those elements doesn't make anything adult, it's the way they are implemented.

For it to be adult (well, IMO anyway) it needs to be taken seriously, and avoid the overuse in order for it to have impact, overuse it without taking seriously and you'll just fall into the childish level, and that's what, i think, DA2 does, with it's absurd amount of Gore(one that has little to no impact), ridiculous amount of Sexual jokes, among other things, make it nearly impossible for it to be taken seriously.

[Mr.House]

csfteeeer wrote...

No, what i'm saying is that, JUST having those elements doesn't make anything adult, it's the way they are implemented.

For it to be adult (well, IMO anyway) it needs to be taken seriously, and avoid the overuse in order for it to have impact, overuse it without taking seriously and you'll just fall into the childish level, and that's what, i think, DA2 does, with it's absurd amount of Gore(one that has little to no impact), ridiculous amount of Sexual jokes, among other things, make it nearly impossible for it to be taken seriously.

Are you f*cking kidding me? TW2 had more sexul jokes then DAO and DA2 combined. Does that make the game kiddie?

Modifié par Mr.House, 07 octobre 2011 - 05:05 .

[Persephone]

csfteeeer wrote...

Persephone wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Issues that are part of DAII's storyline: Abuse, Rape, torture, insanity, a serial killer preying on children, another serial killer preying on women, mass murder, terrorism, fanaticism.....

And had the combat been about pixels fighting each other using flowers, I would never recommend DAII to anyone under 18 because of these things.

you say that as if just having those things makes DA2 adult.

it doesn't.

It sure does. Like DAII or not, it is not a game for kids.

No, what i'm saying is that, JUST having those elements doesn't make anything adult, it's the way they are implemented.

For it to be adult (well, IMO anyway) it needs to be taken seriously, and avoid the overuse in order for it to have impact, overuse it without taking seriously and you'll just fall into the childish level, and that's what, i think, DA2 does, with it's absurd amount of Gore(one that has little to no impact), ridiculous amount of Sexual jokes, among other things, make it nearly impossible for it to be taken seriously.

Good for you. I feel the same way about TW2's "love scenes". (Despite my adoration for the rest of the game)

[seraphymon]

Mr.House wrote...

seraphymon wrote...

No it isnt. Because it still there. walking bomb as i see it should be the only one that warrants people to explode, as in DAO that was good. But in here any strong enough ability will cause an explosion. Its just no auto attacks or love taps will cause it. Regardless the point is that the explosion deaths like everything else is just too over the top, and childish.

You when the bomb goes off you see a mist of gore but the body is still there in tact?

I don't see explosions that much anymore so maybe it's just your version.

Yes in DAO the body is still in tact somehow out the end of the explosion, but at least the image of explosion was there. but in DA2, later in lvls when warrior and especially rogues getting to 100% crit, one good ability such as mighty blow, assasinate, twin fangs, even back stab. esssentially any ability, when they are near death will essentially give them a good enough blow to make them explode.

Persephone wrote...

seraphymon wrote...

No it isnt. Because it still there. walking bomb as i see it should be the only one that warrants people to explode, as in DAO that was good. But in here any strong enough ability will cause an explosion. Its just no auto attacks or love taps will cause it. Regardless the point is that the explosion deaths like everything else is just too over the top, and childish.

A fatal hit still causes it, yes. Same as in....OMG....Baldur's Gate I&II. Is that game "kiddie" too?

And if it bothers you THAT much, there is a mod to get rid of it or have it happen with WB exclusively. It's been out for months as well.

truth be told i never played BG 1 or 2, though i may get to them when i have the time. So i cant give an awnser in how i feel about how it was for it.

However when did i say it bothered me at all? I know theres a mod for it, but it really doesnt bother me. Yes id much rather have more realistic deaths, even going for say sutting off limbs off enemies and they still are able to find or something. Id even have DAO style deaths back as well. All im saying is it is something i think is ridiculous in DA2, but it doesn't bother me.

Modifié par seraphymon, 07 octobre 2011 - 05:12 .

[csfteeeer]

Persephone wrote...

Good for you. I feel the same way about TW2's "love scenes". (Despite my adoration for the rest of the game)

Mr.House wrote...
Are you f*cking kidding me? TW2 had more sexul jokes then DAO and DA2 combined. Does that make the game kiddie?

Why the **** are you 2 talking about TW2?
i haven't mentioned it.

and btw, i said that, for me, there are many factors that make DA2 childish to me, not just that, like it's completely over-the-top amount of gore, TW2 doesn't have this, hell, for a while i wasn't even sure if there was blood on TW2(oh and House, TW2's humor is, imo, better than DA2's)

Modifié par csfteeeer, 07 octobre 2011 - 05:14 .

[Mr.House]

Sorry but if you put a magical bomb on them they will explode to nothing. DA2 was more realistic with walking bomb then DA2.

/getsflameshield

[Mr.House]

csfteeeer wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Good for you. I feel the same way about TW2's "love scenes". (Despite my adoration for the rest of the game)

Mr.House wrote...
Are you f*cking kidding me? TW2 had more sexul jokes then DAO and DA2 combined. Does that make the game kiddie?

Why the **** are youo 2 talking about TW2?
i haven't mentioned it.

and btw, i said that, for me, there are many factors that make DA2 childish to me, not just that, like it's completely over-the-top amount of gore, TW2 doesn't have this, hell, for a while i wasn't even sure if there was blood on TW2(oh and House, TW2's humor is, imo, better than DA2's)

Because TW2 is said to be an "adult" game, yet it has things that you say make DA2 a kiddie game. So yes it's valid.

[seraphymon]

Mr.House wrote...

Sorry but if you put a magical bomb on them they will explode to nothing. DA2 was more realistic with walking bomb then DA2.

/getsflameshield

The explosion part is the same in either game. Is just in DAO i would say it wasnt exactly finished. So for the sake of walking bomb, yes it was better and more realistic persay in DA2. But most of eveything else, especially with melee weapons is a different story.

[Firky]

Oh, yeah. The exploding enemies. I miss them since the patch. Not joking. And the knockbacks.

And, yes, persephone! I remember those BG2 chunky explodes. They made me feel powerful.

(I don't know how this related to the adult argument, except that I'm a mother of two in my early 30s who, apparently, likes blood.)

However, how did the BG2 explodes work again? They must have been damage related? I don't remember them often, hence the powerful feeling. In DAII, I was struggling to cause lots of damage for a long time, so I guess that's part of why I liked it. (If it'd been a cakewalk, I can picture having the opposite opinion.)

Modifié par Firky, 07 octobre 2011 - 05:37 .

[Sinuphro]

BrandonMotz wrote...

"Do you ever have the feeling that the word is getting.... simpler? Like everything from eating to fighting is a lot less complex than it used to be?"

Quote from talkative man in The Hanged Man

I was reading a post earlier in the week from someone who was miffed because DA2 was "Kiddied down" from Dragon Age 1 in its difficulty.

After going through my second playthrough I have to agree. From this quote it seems as if Bioware knows they kiddied it down. Cmon BW!! Plese make DA 3 more adult friendly! More tactical options, More blood... More gore... More sexually appealing options.

Video game target audience is what... 16 to 34?

Please Bioware, make DA3 for the mature audience (18 +)  and put an "M"rating on it. Let the stupid parents make the decision to purchase their underage children an M rated game take responsibility for their own actions, instead of forcing everyone to play a game that is suitable for 12 year old children.

If it is a matter of sales...... I promise to purchase 10 copies of the Dragon Age 3!

No idea why I am writing and whining about this.... Probably the rum I have been drinking!

Cheers Mates

Arrrrr!

yes; dragon age 2 was kiddish. best thing to do; dun preorder bioware games anymore; rent it 1st then if its good buy it.

[LordKinoda]

Absolutely.

How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days
Sleepless in Seatle
The Wedding Planner
French Kiss
Return to Me
While You Where Sleeping

etc. and so on. Some of my favorite movies, but none of them have an R-Rated sex scene. Why not? They could easily justify one couldn't they? It's because they don't need them, and a video game should need one either.

I can't recall specifics about all of those movies, both because I haven't seen them all and because I don't remember everything about the few I have seen. But that's irrelevant in this case. Both DAO and DA2 warrant these scenes and they both fumble the ball (defaultly speaking of course, we won't include mods that can fix the issues). They both "need" these scenes to flesh out the romance. I think DA2 needs it more than DAO too, heh. It's relationship arcs are far less detailed, and this scene can help flesh out a bit of the relationship that is BARELY explored in the dialog. Alas, it is faded to black and thus destroys the last vestige of something that could of greatly expanded a meaningful relationship between two characters.

If they did add it to a game I would have to say that the game should be rated A and not M.

Would you also agree that Watchmen, 300, Color of Night, and countless others should be rated NC-17 ? Give me a VERY large break.

If you think a good 'well-written' sex scene should be in every M rated game with relationships, then I would have to just disagree with you and we would need to agree to disagree on that point.

Should they be in EVERY game with relationships ? Probably not. But in Dragon Age ? Definitely.

Yes, we could certainly show more nudity or sex in our love scenes because we are a mature game and we are creating our game for mature audiences, both in age and attitude. But we are not obligated to include such content, nor does its absence indicate a lack or reduction in the maturity of the game or its developer. As purportedly "mature" gamers, we should be able to discuss our preferences, suggestions, and critiques without such "immature" statements.

No you are not obligated to include it, but you should FEEL obligated to include it. You can spit that politcally correct rhetroic all you want to Mr. Woo. Not including realistic depictions of sexual encounters that you already established that will be in the game, both from previous incarnations, and other games as well, is just asinine. It CAN be done tastefully and realistically in a visual format. Fade to black is either lazy, or "teenager rating freindly", sorry. "Rated M for mature", for pretty much everything EXCEPT realistic depictions of sex.

We can show you beheadings, pieced together corpses of your mother, exploding bodies, and pasties on demon breast, but holy hell we CANNOT show you nudity from Hawke and their love interest while they enage in an entirely consentual and realistic depiction of a culmination of their relationship ! Why would we do that ? That would be great storytelling. /sarcasm

But game ratings should be more of a parent issue, but since parents can't play every game that is out there the rating need to give them some idea of what they are allowing their kids to be exposed to. But since my son is 20 now I don't worry too much about that.

Ratings should NEVER be thought of when writing a story or given scene. Period. I could give a flying rats arse what you think is appropriate for your son, or somebody else thinks what's appropriate for their children, let's not even mention this story is supposed to be made for adults only, heh. The story should be written, and then experienced, plain and simple. If the ratings board has to place warnings on the game, so be it. Doesn't change the fact that what other people MAY think about a story shouldn't affect HOW the writer writes it.

The first thing that comes to my mind with a cartoony style is that its meant for a younger audience, especially with enemies that look like skeletor or some sort of flunkies out of a power rangers season.

ROFLCOPTER ! I'll now and forever more think of the darkspawn in DA2 as the putties from Mighty Morphin because they are in fact so incredibly similar. It's crazy how I didn't make the connection myself being such a fan of the series.

We like getting constructive feedback. With rants, buzzwords or vague, subjective generalities, there's not a whole lot we can do except ask questions until you give us something we can work with.

I'd like to think of myself as frank and to the point, so I'll go for it and hopefully it isn't misinterpreted as buzzwords or ambiguity.

-Realistic depictions of combat. Leaping twenty feet across the field without the aid of the Force is just not feasible. Same with exploding bodies. For mages, okay. Magic has bending room in regards to combat, but the rouges and warriors are a lot more limited and should be grounded in reality. Hacking off limbs and heads is fine, total pink mist sprays are pretty much downright silly for somebody who is only using a dagger or sword. Stylized combat is great for some games, but in Dragon Age it feels forced. Keep it real for me.

-Sex. I've stated this many times. In this thread, and others. It's just not realistically portrayed. If you want to include romance scenes, go full bore or nothing at all. And since 'nothing at all' is incredibly boring and unrealistic I'd say doing it full on is warranted. This WILL include realistic depictions of nudity *gasp*. At least the buttocks of one or both genders AND breasts for the female characters. Full frontal nudity isn't necessary, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely, that's me though. Nearly every game you guys have made has had meaningful relationships in them. Sex scenes are not ALWAYS needed, but they are most definitely appreciated when they are included and done CORRECTLY. You can say my definition of 'correctly' differs from others or your own, but I disagree. Copulating is fairly universal, no matter the position used.

I can't say it's "kiddie or childish" to NOT include these scenes, but I will say it's UNREALISTIC. That's the best word for it.

-Stylized armor and art style I can roll with. This isn't game/immersion breaking for me. Changing the shape of armors or architecture is a derivation, but not an entirely unwelcome or unrealistic one.

-Character customization. I could go on and on about this. I want EVERY option you have avaiable to make my character. Give me every single solitary thing you can think of. I want there to be so many options that it is nigh impossible for another player to create a protagonist that is even remotely similar to my own. For me, the options can never be too much. Give me what you got, and I'll always ask for more. Both for replayablity and uniqueness.

-Choices. These can be done in a multitude of ways. I think you guys have yet to perfect this certain aspect, but you are doing fairly well. More choices to any given situation is always a good thing and will be appreciated.

Steer well clear of any text explanations or epilouges though. Give me a cinamatic with dialog (or without if you must) any day of the week. Take the trinket you get from Sha'ira in Mass Effect as a prime example of what I mean. That whole thing you open up on Eletania is a text explanation, when it could of been a neat little cinematic with a great score and visuals. Surely it wouldn't of been SO time intensive that the animators couldn't of put something together. Having it all text just dampens the experience, I'm not reading a book, I'm playing a game. I want to SEE it, not read it. Same with DAO epilouges. Short cinematics to flesh out the text of those would of been so much more rewarding.

[TEWR]

Yes in DAO the body is still in tact somehow out the end of the explosion, but at least the image of explosion was there. but in DA2, later in lvls when warrior and especially rogues getting to 100% crit, one good ability such as mighty blow, assasinate, twin fangs, even back stab. esssentially any ability, when they are near death will essentially give them a good enough blow to make them explode.

Yea.... I haven't seen anything of the sort by just using Mighty Blow or Backstab or those other abilities. It doesn't make them explode on its own. The only way Mighty Blow or Archer's Lance is if the enemies are made brittle by a mage's Winter's Grasp/Cone of Cold ability.

Exploding bodies only happen in Varric's exaggeration of Family Matter and when you use cross class combos to land an epic hit, which can again be attributed to Varric.

Remember how you played the opening segment as a beefed up Hawke? That's you playing at high levels. No one exploded there after the patches.

[seraphymon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yes in DAO the body is still in tact somehow out the end of the explosion, but at least the image of explosion was there. but in DA2, later in lvls when warrior and especially rogues getting to 100% crit, one good ability such as mighty blow, assasinate, twin fangs, even back stab. esssentially any ability, when they are near death will essentially give them a good enough blow to make them explode.

Yea.... I haven't seen anything of the sort by just using Mighty Blow or Backstab or those other abilities. It doesn't make them explode on its own. The only way Mighty Blow or Archer's Lance is if the enemies are made brittle by a mage's Winter's Grasp/Cone of Cold ability.

Exploding bodies only happen in Varric's exaggeration of Family Matter and when you use cross class combos to land an epic hit, which can again be attributed to Varric.

Remember how you played the opening segment as a beefed up Hawke? That's you playing at high levels. No one exploded there after the patches.

CCCs help in that, and icould understand the need from say a brittle because of being frozen and then shattered, but no. They still explode from just regular mighty blows, twin fangs etc. I didnt even think about varrics exaggeration but yeah its there.

When your beefed up hawke your essentially stronger in more ways than the game allows, but i do not thin kthe critical aspect is there as much, However it is still there at times when using whilrwind and enemies torsos are cut in half, which i guess would be accurate.

At begging its almost non existent, even with cross class but later in lvls  with high crit and much more dmg it happsn soo much more even aside from CCCs, but thats just what i notice.

The only point im making is that they are there, just less frequent. and most in a way that wouldnt happen with melee weapons persay, which i dont care for. Not that it bothers me too much, i just think it was made for eye candy or put in , in a childish way.

[Pygmali0n]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I've been told by these forums time and again that it is definitely NOT the changes between Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age II that people are objecting to, since that would lend credence to the "players can't handle Dragon Age II being different" (or "innovative") quote that gets thrown around.

Selective reading then.  Or paying too much attention to a few critics (who only speak for themselves),.. or perhaps actually misreading what they really say?

It's not that DA2 has changed from DA:O, it's what DA2 has changed into.

That's what I've been mostly reading, in any context that can be linked to your comment. So it's definitely INDEED the changes between DA:O and DA2 that people are objecting to!


I don't like DA2's "new direction". I'm really happy about the subject matter in some recent threads, like this. Finally this forum is at least partly approaching the kernel of the matter (as I see it and as in the direction I've always tried to pull the discussion). It's not the flaws, it's the cynically calculated (for retarded 14y olds?) new style.

But try telling you that? Oh no , thread lockups and: "no rants please, constructive criticism, we only want to hear about re-used environments and falling waves over and over again, because we have no intention to change our new kewl style with kewl iconic looks that we think will gain us so many new customers".

Look, in terms of mechanics and features, TW2 is very far from what I really consider I want in a cRPG, but O'boy what a serious creation that game is. I like it. It has a pretense at realism. It has an atmosphere. It takes itself and its world seriously. I like it. And in games I like, I don't bother to find flaws, and flaws don't bother me.
In a game I don't like though, every little flaw burns and annoy me.

Do you think I'm mad in suspecting more people than me works that way?

What a great post. I work that way too. Also about an earlier point of yours Stan, the reason why there is a lot of ranting is that Bioware made DA:O and they made DA2 - we think you know what you are doing - so in criticising what seem to be obvious and deliberate change of styles and gameplay, people don't think they have to detail what you know you did (and they think that only a few people actually control the direction anyway). 

Many people also don't want to tell you what to do (believe it or not) and in fact see it as an attitude, or approach, problem. Your use of Maus as a defence of DA2 would be what I see as a fundamental problem in allowing you to create a game like DA2 for mature audiences. The artistic licence wasn't justified in this case.

Remember 'it's not what you say but how you say it'? Well there might be a lot of underlying similarities between DA2 and actual cRPGs but it really doesn't feel like it. Keep it western! Eastern cRPGs are stuck at being 12 years old. Remember fusion cooking? Bloody awful. Give me Sushi, give me an old English breakfast - but don't mash-up the two like it was meant for toddlers and present it as dish for grown-ups. And when I was young what did I want? That's right, I wanted to be older and I wanted adult things.

Good plain speaking post from Lord Kinoda too, though the way you put it it sounds like you want porn, which definitely would put me right off the game. Do the scenes with humour and style, try not to be self conscious and keep it natural - again ME1 got it right, Witcher 2 got it right. This is the one time you ought to copy Mass Effect.

***More importantly, don't let the relationship feel dead after the consumation (this happened in DA2).***

And the epilogues were great! They engage your imagination in a different way - they would be vastly improved with some epic artwork and wouldn't be suitable for an absolute ending of a story - but they are a perfectly legitimate way to provide something extra, meaningful and much appreciated, without burdening the team with lot of new work (and my imagination has better graphics anyway). You made us read your long post LK, the least you can do at the end of a game is wind-down and read some brief epilogues.

Modifié par Pygmali0n, 07 octobre 2011 - 10:43 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Personallly, I'm quite happy with a "fade to balck".
There's nothing unrealistic about not shoing a sex scene. You don't have to see it. It doesn't make the world any less real - they don't show you answering the natures call either. As long as it's implied...

[Firky]

I thought The Witcher 2 sex scenes were well done because they didn't take themselves too seriously. Well, the 5 ladies of the night I slept with, for ironic value, on my way to rescue Triss through a secret passage in their place of business weren't that well done, but never mind.

Still, I much prefer the collectable cards in the original Witcher because they were static and, thus, suggestive. (And I do know lots of people were offended by them, and I am a chick, so don't hassle me for not getting the female angle.) But, to my mind, dynamic, video images are a lot more confronting than static "art."

To be honest, I tend to see explicit sex as less adult, these days, in all media - except that specifically designed to provide it - or if it's highly contextual. What Lotion said about "implied" rings true for me, anyway. Adults understand suggestiveness and subtext. I don't know if all prefer it, but I think it's the right approach for games like these.