429 réponses à ce sujet

[Androme]

accessd wrote...

To be honest. This game is not meant for anyone if they expect the regular BioWare quality. It's a betrayal.

May I please use this as a signature? No offence meant towards anyone, but that line pretty much sums up Dragon Age 2.

Modifié par Androme, 28 septembre 2011 - 04:46 .

[grregg]

accessd wrote...

To be honest. This game is not meant for anyone if they expect the regular BioWare quality. It's a betrayal.

Hmm... is there some kind of sacred pact that I don't know about and that states that if a developer makes a game that I like, they are only allowed to make games that I like? For all eternity? And if they ever make a game I do not like, it constitutes a breach of aforementioned pact and a vile, base treachery?

[aries1001]

I'm currently playing the first Neverwinter Nights game (from 2001 or 2002?). And boy, do I miss the responsive combat from both DA1 and DA: Origins. However, the story is sort of OK, so I continue playing. Also, the controls are the most awkward controls I've yet to encounter in a Bioware game.
DA2 has, along with BG1 and BG2, the best UI, I've found in a Bioware game - if in any game....at all.

[Mike_Neel]

I definitely agree. The game needs way more side boob to appeal to me. At least 28% more side boob in all cutscenes.

Make it work Mr. Epler.

[tariq071]

Game was not made for "kiddies",however it was more tailored to target certain population age(most likely of 18-24 age), because BW(EA) wanted to focus on selling this product to "platform" player, which are overwhelmingly of that specific age.

Whole crew(including Hawke) reassembles to freshman dorm with their pointless talking ,persistent whining, impatience and lack of general direction or even idea what in the world they actually want to do.And none of them didn't mature even slightly after 7 years(sigh).

At least that's how consumer group of that age is perceived by publishers, disregarding do i agree on or not with that view.

So yeah it was designed to target consumer of younger age then DAO or any other previous title, but definitely not "kiddies".

If anything , it was designed to make increased profit on consoles, while pushing PC interests behind.Problem is that it didn't succed in that either(other then maybe tiny boost), since this is only forum on whole web that actually still has some positive views about the game or it's  DLCs.

Modifié par tariq071, 28 septembre 2011 - 07:27 .

[ReveurIngenu]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Dragon Age II has an M rating from the ESRB, meaning that in North America, the game is suggested for players aged 17 and up. Content advisories for the game include "Blood and Gore, Language, Sexual Content, Violence".

It also has a PEGI rating of 18, meaning that, in Europe, the game is suggested for players aged 18 and up. The content advisory is listed as "Extreme violence."

Dragon Age II is not a kid's game, and is not suggested or recommended for children.

I think this is something Bioware needs to tell all it's employees because I don't think everyone at Bioware is aware of this.  Someone at Bioware said that Mass Effects 2's sex scenes were toned down to be in the "PG-13" area and I never understood why Bioware would make an M rated game but then want to keep things "PG-13."  It's like, who is your target crowd anyway?  If you're going to make a mature game, then by all means please, keep things mature!  Why do you tone down things, make them more "kid and family-friendly" like toning down sex scenes, etc?

Why can't we get The Witcher 2 style sex scenes if these games are aimed at adults?  I for one am quite sick of getting child-friendly games, especially when they're rated M or 18+.


Edit: Here's a link to where Bioware says that they wanted to keep things in the PG-13 zone for ME2, which is quite contradictory to it's 18+ rating.
http://www.destructo...-2-170051.phtml

Modifié par ReveurIngenu, 28 septembre 2011 - 08:49 .

[Sutekh]

accessd wrote...

To be honest. This game is not meant for anyone if they expect the regular BioWare quality. It's a betrayal.

Yay! Greek tragedy! I'll bring the mask and the red toga so we all can dramatically express our deep pain and hurt feelings with wide gestures of wounded dignity. Then we'll have the game hanged, disemboweled and quartered. Always good for effect.

@OP:

If you speak about game mechanics, it is indeed simplier in many areas, some of which I deeply regret, some I don't. Not simple enough for most kids, though.

If you speak about the plot, then definitely no. I can't go into details because of the no-spoilers policy, but some quests and some general concepts and moral dilemna are absolutely not meant for kids, be it for their mature level or their complexity.

If you speak about rating things, no again. As mentioned above, scenes such as "felicitate me" or the lovely Blood Mage animation are not things a kid should be able to simply understand (for the former, at least), or be exposed to in a game.

[LordKinoda]

Content advisories for the game include "Blood and Gore, Language, Sexual Content, Violence".

Blood and gore - Meh, there is some, but a lot of it is more stylized than realistic I think
Language - A few words here and there, I'll allow it, just barely
Sexual Content - Ha ! Don't continue to make me laugh. There is NO sexual content in this game. In DAO sure, but not DA2.
Violence - Definitely, couldn't be fun without it

In short the ESRB does try to warn people what's in games. But in the end it still basically controls what types of games developers can and cannot make. Bioware used to skirt the boundries a little, what happened to that ? Who knows ? Rockstar does a good job of it too, heh.

The MPAA is the same way, or more accurately the ESRB is like the MPAA since it was first and what they modeled it after. But this is a whole new can of worms, best left to another thread

Dragon Age II is not a kid's game, and is not suggested or recommended for children.

This is way more true for DAO, not so much DA2. It's on the borderline of recieving a T I think, heh. Which is a BAD thing, not a good one. It should be made entirely for adults, and not cater to any younger audience in any way.

Modifié par LordKinoda, 28 septembre 2011 - 09:06 .

[alex90c]

I wouldn't say DA2 was meant for kids, just it didn't feel all that mature with the exaggerated combat.

[Uccio]

ReveurIngenu wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Dragon Age II has an M rating from the ESRB, meaning that in North America, the game is suggested for players aged 17 and up. Content advisories for the game include "Blood and Gore, Language, Sexual Content, Violence".

It also has a PEGI rating of 18, meaning that, in Europe, the game is suggested for players aged 18 and up. The content advisory is listed as "Extreme violence."

Dragon Age II is not a kid's game, and is not suggested or recommended for children.

I think this is something Bioware needs to tell all it's employees because I don't think everyone at Bioware is aware of this.  Someone at Bioware said that Mass Effects 2's sex scenes were toned down to be in the "PG-13" area and I never understood why Bioware would make an M rated game but then want to keep things "PG-13."  It's like, who is your target crowd anyway?  If you're going to make a mature game, then by all means please, keep things mature!  Why do you tone down things, make them more "kid and family-friendly" like toning down sex scenes, etc?

Why can't we get The Witcher 2 style sex scenes if these games are aimed at adults?  I for one am quite sick of getting child-friendly games, especially when they're rated M or 18+.


Edit: Here's a link to where Bioware says that they wanted to keep things in the PG-13 zone for ME2, which is quite contradictory to it's 18+ rating.
http://www.destructo...-2-170051.phtml

Exactly. I am a adult player and the one thing I look from the games is the rating. Not to see p0rn but to have that adult atmosphere which also in times includes partial nudity. If I want to have kiddie games I will buy one. Saturday morning cartoons I leave for kids too. DA2 has a tendency to fall in that kiddie category with anime characters and oversized weapons. Not to mention the ridiculous "sex" scenes.

Modifié par Ukki, 28 septembre 2011 - 09:17 .

[Gravity Bun]

I just finished The Witcher 2 and comparing it with DA2 is like comparing The Lord Of The Rings with ... I dunno ... Twilight.
So yes, DA2 does feel kiddified. It might have "extreme violence" but overall it feels like it was designed to cater to teenagers.

[Stanley Woo]

ReveurIngenu wrote...
I think this is something Bioware needs to tell all it's employees because I don't think everyone at Bioware is aware of this.  Someone at Bioware said that Mass Effects 2's sex scenes were toned down to be in the "PG-13" area and I never understood why Bioware would make an M rated game but then want to keep things "PG-13." 

Ratings agencies like the ESRB and PEGI have their own criteria for assigning ratings. When we talk about "keeping things PG-13," we're talking in generalities, comparing content to what one might see in a PG-13 rated movie. And yes, our sex scenes are non-explicit enough to probably get them a PG-13 rating in a film. But sex scenes aren't the entirety of our game. Ratings agencies take into account the totality of the content, even content that not everyone will see, such as romances, sex scenes, etc.

Just because one aspect of a game isn't considered "rated R" doesn't mean that, as a whole, the game is appropriate for a general audience.

It's like, who is your target crowd anyway?  If you're going to make a
mature game, then by all means please, keep things mature!  Why do you
tone down things, make them more "kid and family-friendly" like toning
down sex scenes, etc?

Most people appreciate the the fact that explicit sex, nudity, language, violence and gore isn't ubiquitous in the game. Mature content and M-rated games, as i've always said when such discussions come up, does not refer to having pornography, gore and F-bombs dropping everywhere. If you're looking for a game like The Witcher 2, which features more explicit nudity and sex, then by all means, play Witcher 2. It is an M-rated game which features, according to the ESRB content advisories, "Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Nudity, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, Use of Drugs."

This does not obligate any other developer or creator to include such things in their games. It also does not preclude ratings agencies from assigning game a Mature rating based on other criteria. And the lack of explicit content absolutely does not imply that the game is intended or recommended for children.

Why can't we get The Witcher 2 style sex scenes if these games are aimed
at adults?  I for one am quite sick of getting child-friendly games,
especially when they're rated M or 18+.

Again, Dragon Age II is not The Witcher 2. They are different games, just as William Gibson's "Pattern Recognition" and Harlequin romances are both intended for different yet mature audiences, yet each has its own tone, level of explicitness, and content. Being a fan of certain content is fine. Expecting everything to cater to your particular preferences is a little unreasonable, I think.

[thats1evildude]

Though there is plenty of violence, foul language and sexual references (if not implicit sexuality), it's more that the tone of the game is very adult. I don't think little kids would grasp the complexity of the mage-templar conflict or the animosity between the Chantry and the qunari. I'm not sure that kids should play a game where you perform mercy kills on ailing comrades, chase down serial killers, interrogate prostitutes and break up slaver rings.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 28 septembre 2011 - 09:27 .

[Stanley Woo]

alex90c wrote...

I wouldn't say DA2 was meant for kids, just it didn't feel all that mature with the exaggerated combat.

Combat is not the only criteria used by ratings agencies to assign ratings. Rule systems and controls schemes are not considered, I don't think, when assigning ratings. Only content, such as visual imagery, text/dialogue, and player actions.

[Relix28]

Well, let's see. Constant violence and gore, human sacrifices, serial killers, rapists, torture, demonic possession, assassinations, murders, adult humor, prostitutes, cursing....want me to go on?
I would say that the 18+ rating is more than fitting for DA2.

Modifié par Relix28, 28 septembre 2011 - 09:36 .

[alex90c]

Stanley Woo wrote...

alex90c wrote...

I wouldn't say DA2 was meant for kids, just it didn't feel all that mature with the exaggerated combat.

Combat is not the only criteria used by ratings agencies to assign ratings. Rule systems and controls schemes are not considered, I don't think, when assigning ratings. Only content, such as visual imagery, text/dialogue, and player actions.

Oh I agree with you, I was just giving my own personal opinion on the matter, simply saying I felt the nature of the combat kind of took away from the serious themes the game tried to portray.

[thats1evildude]

alex90c wrote...

Oh I agree with you, I was just giving my own personal opinion on the matter, simply saying I felt the nature of the combat kind of took away from the serious themes the game tried to portray.

By being exciting and fast-paced?

You don't have to respond. I really don't care about your thoughts on DA2's combat.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 28 septembre 2011 - 09:49 .

[bEVEsthda]

If DA2 is not for kids, then EA/Bioware have a somewhat insulting opinion about gamers.
Actually, I'm convinced it's both. Two markets is twice as big, eh?

Will the feedback help? Nope! The tombstone of the Dragon Age IP will read: "DA3 - the game born from *constructive criticism* by people who liked DA2".

It's not the flaws. It's the "new direction" that is the problem.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 28 septembre 2011 - 09:53 .

[alex90c]

thats1evildude wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Oh I agree with you, I was just giving my own personal opinion on the matter, simply saying I felt the nature of the combat kind of took away from the serious themes the game tried to portray.

By being exciting and fast-paced?

By being over the top and ridiculously gory. I personally found nothing "exciting" about "another wave" happening in every fight, though that's just me.

Modifié par alex90c, 28 septembre 2011 - 09:53 .

[Sir Caradoc]

DAII is not aimed for children, I'm sure most of us can agree to that. Nonetheless the game manages to send very mixed signals. Like it tries so hard to please all the older rpg fans, yet at the same it shows us the middle finger.  The advertisement campaign for example was aimed for casual teen audience. Not for serious gamers i think. Not for people who adore great storytelling or rich gameplay. Not people who valued bioware games in the past or any great rpg games in general.

Dragon age orgins felt subtle and realistic in every way. Combat and art design had that certain gritty and serious vibe which DAII lacks entirely. The setting was quite intriguing and old school. I loved the different orgins storylines that gave a whole different view to the upcoming adventure. I can't understand why Bioware had to ditch this feauture. Character creation is one of the best aspects of rpg games and you forced us to play an human noble in the sequel. Storyline wasn't spoonfed to player either. You gave us room to explore the storyline on our pace and make our own choises which mattered.

Its like a difference between Lord of the rings film and Clash of the titans. First one tries to be capture audience' attention with detail and grace while the latter with big explosions and fast action scenes.

I just miss the good old D&D feeling from orgins. I sensed that there was so much passion behind DAO-project. Same cannot be said about Dragon Age 2.

Modifié par Sir Caradoc, 28 septembre 2011 - 10:09 .

[billy the squid]

Stanley Woo wrote...

alex90c wrote...

I wouldn't say DA2 was meant for kids, just it didn't feel all that mature with the exaggerated combat.

Combat is not the only criteria used by ratings agencies to assign ratings. Rule systems and controls schemes are not considered, I don't think, when assigning ratings. Only content, such as visual imagery, text/dialogue, and player actions.

What kind of criteria do rating agancies use? As some of the decisions seem completely arbitrary.

[Complistic]

It certainly wasn't meant for me. Which isn't entirely bioware's fault. If they don't want their game's to appeal to me then that's fine, CD Projekt Red is more than happy to take my money.

[Stanley Woo]

billy the squid wrote...

What kind of criteria do rating agancies use? As some of the decisions seem completely arbitrary.

Contact the ESRB or PEGI, depending on which agency applies to your location.

[Gotholhorakh]

Fiddles_stix wrote...

Irony

I love the fact that the writer of that content thinks "irony" is synonymous with "sarcasm", something schoolboys get scolded for by their English teachers.

If I had to describe their failure to grasp what "ironic" means (whilst writing a snarky website explaining irony) in one word, it would be... the word is on the tip of my tongue... no, it's gone.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 29 septembre 2011 - 11:02 .

[Cutlass Jack]

"Mommy, what's a slattern?"