429 réponses à ce sujet

[LordKinoda]

Again, Dragon Age II is not The Witcher 2. They are different games, just as William Gibson's "Pattern Recognition" and Harlequin romances are both intended for different yet mature audiences, yet each has its own tone, level of explicitness, and content. Being a fan of certain content is fine. Expecting everything to cater to your particular preferences is a little unreasonable, I think.

Thing is Stan, that he is not alone. I'm right there with him, and I've read that plenty of other comments from people who also feel the same. I don't advocate full on pornography in games either, but sex scenes akin to an R rated are definitely warranted for some realism and 'finality' to the romances.

The Witcher 2 did their scenes pretty tastefully I think, nothing explicit in them. Does this mean that BW should copy them ? Not exactly. I think 'learn from' is the better expression in this context.

DA2 is not for kids on the whole no, but it cannot be denied that there are aspects of the game that make it more 'teenager friendly' if you will. The "sex scenes" are just the easiest option to single out for this.

Odd that both ME2 and DA2 hobbled thier sex scenes when compared to their previous iterations. ME and DAO's scenes still weren't as 'real' as I would like them, but they were certainly better than what popped up in their sequels.

[JonathonPR]

Saw and Final Destination are no kiddie movies. Neither is Citizen Kane but for different reasons. Some times you have content meant for an adult audience and sometimes you have content you present maturely.

The same consumer can enjoy both but if you don't meet brand expectation by trying to expand your consumer base you can lose loyalty.

[Anomaly-]

Morroian wrote...

Anomaly- wrote...
"One of my biggest caveats about the dialogue wheel is that what you're saying, and for the most part, the reaction to what you're saying is already known to you before you say it. I shouldn't be told which option is good, and which bad, 

DA2 didn't do that, if you interpreted the options that way thats on you not the game. 

How not? The same 3 icons, delivered in the same 3 tones. What am I missing? Sure, there are a few cases where you are presented with several multi-arrow icons, but unfortunately it's the minority of the time, and more unfortunately, your choice usually doesn't matter much anyway.

A sword fight icon? A heart icon? Again, what am I missing? It seems pretty clear to me that mechanic robs you of choosing what you really want to say and facing the consequences in lieu of saying something based on the desired result, which is already given to you.

Imho, that's a severely broken mechanic.

[Morroian]

Anomaly- wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Anomaly- wrote...
"One of my biggest caveats about the dialogue wheel is that what you're saying, and for the most part, the reaction to what you're saying is already known to you before you say it. I shouldn't be told which option is good, and which bad, 

DA2 didn't do that, if you interpreted the options that way thats on you not the game. 

How not? The same 3 icons, delivered in the same 3 tones. What am I missing?

16 icons and none of them are good or bad.

[Anomaly-]

Morroian wrote...
16 icons and none of them are good or bad.

Semantics.

Don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about.

[Savber100]

As long as everyone is clear about something... swear words, boobies, and gore does not equate maturity. ;P

[Wulfram]

I don't think DA2 is particularly less mature than Origins - probably not as good, but not less mature - though I also wouldn't really see a problem with a 16 year old playing with it.

[Morroian]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Honestly, just more content surrounding that particular event, at that time. Not 3 years later when someone mentions her name once. This event and the content surrounfing it also should have been the very last parts of act 2. The fact that you are back into doing Kirkwall's dirty work right after your mother's death, is rather jarring. 

So role play it as being days later if you want to. The date and time isn't given within acts. 

You and others keep saying you want more without specifying exactly what you want or why there should be more as opposed to those who role played Hawke as disliking Leandra. If they put more in it has to be about a Hawke who is grief stricken. IMHO they got it about right, they left enough in that those who role played Hawke the family man should be satisfied and those who role played the opposite can put their own spin on it. IMHO it sounds like you want DA2 to be less of an rpg and want your hand held more with the game telling you what Hawke is feeling.

[csfteeeer]

The Woldan wrote...

Cyberarmy wrote...

There is too much blood, gore and fighting and there are a lot of ugly humanoids around.
I dont think its suitable for "the kids"

Well death effect (new IP?) was a bit like lego maybe they can still try it without blood

Mature rating and a mature game are two very different things, to me, Dragon Age 2 feels like the immature ''kewl'' fantasy story of a 14 year old kid.  
Extreme blood, gore, violence and over-sexualized characters don't make a game feel mature, in fact, lots of it makes the game immature.

Exactly.

Many games that are the very Contrary of "Mature" have received the rating.
Example: Bulletstorm has an "Mature" Rating, does that make it mature?
This Video Says a different story.

i will repeat my point, i don't think it was made for Kids, but for Manchildren, which is Different.

Kids get exited over cool explosions, super heroes, act disgusted towards anything even remotely sexual, characters that act cool, ect.

Manchildren on the Other hand, get exited over tons of blood, sex, swears, and all that stuff.

And just so i'm clear, that doesn't make the people who played it(and liked it) manchilds, but that wouldn't change anything if the game was in fact made for Manchildren.

[link to video containing inappropriate language removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 30 septembre 2011 - 12:30 .

[Arthur Cousland]

I could just imagine letting a young "kid" play the game with me not far away and asking, "What is a brothel?", "What is a bi**h-born wh**e?", "Why is that lady's face in that guy's crotch?".

While it would appear at times like Bioware had an under 18 target audience in mind, there is plenty of adult content within.

[Auroras]

LordKinoda wrote...

Again, Dragon Age II is not The Witcher 2. They are different games, just as William Gibson's "Pattern Recognition" and Harlequin romances are both intended for different yet mature audiences, yet each has its own tone, level of explicitness, and content. Being a fan of certain content is fine. Expecting everything to cater to your particular preferences is a little unreasonable, I think.

Thing is Stan, that he is not alone. I'm right there with him, and I've read that plenty of other comments from people who also feel the same. I don't advocate full on pornography in games either, but sex scenes akin to an R rated are definitely warranted for some realism and 'finality' to the romances.

The Witcher 2 did their scenes pretty tastefully I think, nothing explicit in them. Does this mean that BW should copy them ? Not exactly. I think 'learn from' is the better expression in this context.

DA2 is not for kids on the whole no, but it cannot be denied that there are aspects of the game that make it more 'teenager friendly' if you will. The "sex scenes" are just the easiest option to single out for this.

Odd that both ME2 and DA2 hobbled thier sex scenes when compared to their previous iterations. ME and DAO's scenes still weren't as 'real' as I would like them, but they were certainly better than what popped up in their sequels.

I'm not sure if we've played the same Witcher... but those were pretty explicit scenes.

[LordKinoda]

Yes, that's what teenagers want. They want fades to black, not nude sex scenes.

Heh, I didn't mean in terms of what they would want, but in terms of content and censorship.

As long as everyone is clear about something... swear words, boobies, and gore does not equate maturity. ;P

Indeed. You'll not hear me dispute that.

Doesn't change the fact that that's what the ESRB basically uses to rate games. They don't actually PLAY the games in their entirety. They pull out little pieces and rate the game based on them, same as the MPAA. It's all BS when you get right down to it. No limits should be imposed on games or movies. The rating systems should be scrapped entirely because they are ridiculously prone to corruption and the raters own personal bias. All media should just BE and that's it. If you don't like it, DON'T watch it, play it, listen to it, experience it. Change the channel, turn the knob, push the off button. It's that simple. Nobody should EVER have the right to not be offended. You can always just choose to ignore said offense.

But I digress, sort of. Swear words, nudity/sexuality, and violence can all be handled quite tastefully and maturely if they are done correctly. Sad thing is, as I said in the above paragraph, it doesn't matter if they are, because they are ALWAYS taken out of context.

So what are developers forced to do ? 1. Dumb down said content. 2. Not include it at all for fear of the game receiving the dreaded AO rating, which will make it not sellable or marketable on consoles, thus hurting their profits by a HUGE margin.

And yes of course, those three elements are not the only mature type content that exists. They just happen to be the most controversial mature content.

I'm not sure if we've played the same Witcher... but those were pretty explicit scenes.

Not sure what words this message board censors, so take what I say seriously even though it may sound funny or odd, heh.

Did you ever see a 'man part' at all ? I didn't. But let's assume they did show one, and I missed it. Was it 'standing' ? Probably not. Did you ever see one part 'connecting' with another part ? Unless you did, it's NOT explicit. It's just nudity. Even grinding and bobbing motions are not considered explicit.

ex·plic·it   [ik-splis-it]
adjective

1. fully and clearly expressed or demonstrated; leaving nothing merely implied; unequivocal: explicit instructions; an explicit act of violence; explicit language.

Leaving nothing implied. Well there you go. Plenty is left implied because it is not shown, hence not explicit.

Modifié par LordKinoda, 30 septembre 2011 - 04:15 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Morroian wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Honestly, just more content surrounding that particular event, at that time. Not 3 years later when someone mentions her name once. This event and the content surrounfing it also should have been the very last parts of act 2. The fact that you are back into doing Kirkwall's dirty work right after your mother's death, is rather jarring. 

So role play it as being days later if you want to. The date and time isn't given within acts. 

You and others keep saying you want more without specifying exactly what you want or why there should be more as opposed to those who role played Hawke as disliking Leandra. If they put more in it has to be about a Hawke who is grief stricken. IMHO they got it about right, they left enough in that those who role played Hawke the family man should be satisfied and those who role played the opposite can put their own spin on it. IMHO it sounds like you want DA2 to be less of an rpg and want your hand held more with the game telling you what Hawke is feeling.

Yes, i do. The fact that you think this is hand-holding, however, is disturbing.

I want the game to show me, through my character shaping options, what Hawke is feeling. Whether he is angry, sad, or couldn't give a ****; i want the game to show me it. 

And going by what you have posted, it seems you think an RPG is a game that has little content on your character, allowing you to "head-canon" a situation. I, as previously mentioned, wish to play RPG's that SHOW me what my character is feeling. Whether it be through a simple talk with a companion, or something far more  in-depth.

[Mike_Neel]

I'm pretty sure Bioware is probably done with showing more flesh in romance scenes after they got singled out for having 3 seconds of side boob in the first Mass Effect.

[Morroian]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

And going by what you have posted, it seems you think an RPG is a game that has little content on your character, allowing you to "head-canon" a situation. I, as previously mentioned, wish to play RPG's that SHOW me what my character is feeling. Whether it be through a simple talk with a companion, or something far more  in-depth.

I don't want to make up the whole story whole cloth in my head but we did get dialogue with more than 1 character and a scene to role play what Hawke is feeling. 

[Cyberarmy]

Filament wrote...

LordKinoda wrote...

DA2 is not for kids on the whole no, but it cannot be denied that there are aspects of the game that make it more 'teenager friendly' if you will. The "sex scenes" are just the easiest option to single out for this.

Yes, that's what teenagers want. They want fades to black, not nude sex scenes.

New generations seems to have poor taste:pinched:

[esper]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Honestly, just more content surrounding that particular event, at that time. Not 3 years later when someone mentions her name once. This event and the content surrounfing it also should have been the very last parts of act 2. The fact that you are back into doing Kirkwall's dirty work right after your mother's death, is rather jarring. 

So role play it as being days later if you want to. The date and time isn't given within acts. 

You and others keep saying you want more without specifying exactly what you want or why there should be more as opposed to those who role played Hawke as disliking Leandra. If they put more in it has to be about a Hawke who is grief stricken. IMHO they got it about right, they left enough in that those who role played Hawke the family man should be satisfied and those who role played the opposite can put their own spin on it. IMHO it sounds like you want DA2 to be less of an rpg and want your hand held more with the game telling you what Hawke is feeling.

Yes, i do. The fact that you think this is hand-holding, however, is disturbing.

I want the game to show me, through my character shaping options, what Hawke is feeling. Whether he is angry, sad, or couldn't give a ****; i want the game to show me it. 

And going by what you have posted, it seems you think an RPG is a game that has little content on your character, allowing you to "head-canon" a situation. I, as previously mentioned, wish to play RPG's that SHOW me what my character is feeling. Whether it be through a simple talk with a companion, or something far more  in-depth.

But you can't have that much more than Hawke because more than one person are playing Hawke and not all Hawke would feel exactly the same as yours. Do I wish that there had been an option that would allow Hawke t cry? Yes, but the are option that allows Hawke to lash out emtionally at your Li and Aveline, there are also option that allows you to let peole conformt you and there are options that allows you to take the whole blame on you (emotionally). Those are all very believable reactions and a huge step up at that ladder. The two extremes (1: my mother is dead, good riddance and 2: complete emtional breakdown) simply doesn't exits in the game. And I am not sure it should because no matter how you roleplay Hawke, she has certain things set in stone (just as much as the warden had) about what kind of person she is. It is heavly hinted that Hawke has some good ties with her family and no matter what Hawke is a person that kills for a living.

Modifié par esper, 30 septembre 2011 - 06:59 .

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

LordKinoda wrote...

DA2 is not for kids on the whole no, but it cannot be denied that there are aspects of the game that make it more 'teenager friendly' if you will. The "sex scenes" are just the easiest option to single out for this.

Yes, that's what teenagers want. They want fades to black, not nude sex scenes.

[Gillborn]

From my point of view and from what i have seen from my younger brother and his friends is that teens nowdays dont care about story.They only want flashy fights and crazy animations.Add a little Isabella,which has become the typical idol woman for teens these days,some huge swords and anime like characters and there u have it.DA2

[Lotion Soronarr]

BrandonMotz wrote...

After going through my second playthrough I have to agree. From this quote it seems as if Bioware knows they kiddied it down. Cmon BW!! Plese make DA 3 more adult friendly! More tactical options, More blood... More gore... More sexually appealing options.

And that would make it more adult-frindly? Less stramlined? Less "for kids"?
Blood, guts and sex???

[TEWR]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

BrandonMotz wrote...

After going through my second playthrough I have to agree. From this quote it seems as if Bioware knows they kiddied it down. Cmon BW!! Plese make DA 3 more adult friendly! More tactical options, More blood... More gore... More sexually appealing options.

And that would make it more adult-frindly? Less stramlined? Less "for kids"?
Blood, guts and sex???

definitely less "for kids", but not more adult friendly. Those things help make a game mature and should always be handled in as mature a fashion as possible, but they do not make a game mature by themselves.

Gillborn wrote...

From my point of view and from what i have seen from my younger brother and his friends is that teens nowdays dont care about story.They only want flashy fights and crazy animations.

Well, your little brother and his friends don't speak for all of us teenagers, which you are no doubt aware of. Everyone from my highschool cared for many things in video games (note that I'm only speaking for the teens I know. I won't speak for any other teens). Some of them were:

• Story. Story was valued above many things and would be talked about for weeks or even months.
  
• Graphics. We do in fact value graphics because technology has been improving, and with those improvements graphics do improve.
  
• characters: we enjoy seeing characters that are deep, profound, and well thought out.
  
• Badassery: We're teenagers. We enjoy badassery. But we don't enjoy video games just for that reason.

Add a little Isabella,which has become the typical idol woman for teens these days,some huge swords and anime like characters and there u have it.DA2

Anyone who thinks Isabela is this idiotic woman who ****s herself around because it's all she's about honestly hasn't taken the time to truly get to know her.

She's actually a smart woman who has had emotional trauma in her life and is afraid to love, so she keeps people at arm's length. She enjoys having fun. Does she let sex rule her life? No. She's just a person who enjoys having sex wherever possible.

I'm certainly not equipped to argue the proper way to look at Isabela beyond "derp she's a dumb sexfiend built for the teenagers DERP!" as I've never truly romanced her. Reason being that it pains me to romance anyone other than Merrill. However, from her banter and dialogue I was able to see that she is a person with a lot of depth.

I will say this though: calling Isabela a shallow character is looking at her in a very narrow light. She's promiscuous yes, but she's also profound and very deep.

And sorry, but DAII is neither anime nor does it have any anime-esque characters.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 30 septembre 2011 - 10:31 .

[Foolsfolly]

...eh, I'd let a kid play it. It's no more violent or sexual than daytime television is.

I was watching Terminator 2 and RoboCop when I was in kindergarten. And I turned out ok.... after those incidents, at least....

[TEWR]

Foolsfolly wrote...

...eh, I'd let a kid play it. It's no more violent or sexual than daytime television is.

I was watching Terminator 2 and RoboCop when I was in kindergarten. And I turned out ok.... after those incidents, at least....

 that made me lol.

And I don't know why, but your post made me think of some of the zombie films I've seen despite your post not having anything to do with zombies. Then my mind jumped to the movie Fido where people had pet zombies.

That movie made me laugh a lot.

[Yrkoon]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Why can't we get The Witcher 2 style sex scenes if these games are aimed
at adults?  I for one am quite sick of getting child-friendly games,
especially when they're rated M or 18+.

Again, Dragon Age II is not The Witcher 2. They are different games, just as William Gibson's "Pattern Recognition" and Harlequin romances are both intended for different yet mature audiences, yet each has its own tone, level of explicitness, and content. Being a fan of certain content is fine. Expecting everything to cater to your particular preferences is a little unreasonable, I think.

He wasn't stating an expectation.  He was  asking a question then voicing a complaint. You call that unreasonable?  Really?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 30 septembre 2011 - 11:12 .