260 réponses à ce sujet

[Huntress]

Anders targeted a religion building because is the heart/force for what templars exist and rules.

Am a pro mage when I play hawke and a ferelden, I do not agree 100% of killing the sister's inside the building but none of them give a .. about ferelden's refuge so.. meh in a war there is allways casualties.

Elthina was warned and she dismissed the idea the same way as she dismissed hawke when asked about her position on the matter of mages and templars. can't feel sorry for someone who do not want to listen or do not want take part of the situation, am not sorry.

So what Anders did was right to himself/vengance/justice ( if killed) the mages will remmeber him for many years ( he becomes a martyr). I do not kill him ever and I do not care for sebastian and his brain washing speeches. if Sebastian would have died in the chantry would have been a blssing for my hawke and me. rofl.
War have never be won peacefully when you want to remove soemthing from power and they do not want to listen.. you have to slap them and shake them until they adknowledge you're presence. Wars have casualties, wars have death and destructions.

This hole thing reminds me of politicians: The one trying to gain power shows all the poo the other party has done, the party in power explain whos fault is ( the one sicking power) and because of THEM, they never had enough time to make things right! LOL.

Anyway for 900 years mages have being under templars rules, how much longer will mages have to wait and suffer under them to gain freedom?

[Porenferser]

Mages should never be allowed to have full freedom.
I don't want a second Tevinter.

[Melca36]

Porenferser wrote...

Mages should never be allowed to have full freedom.
I don't want a second Tevinter.

Its ignorant assumed that all mages want that.

[Porenferser]

They don't even have to want that.
It is just irresponsible to let people with such power do what they want.
Give them own cities, right to visit their relatives etc, its all allright, but TOTAL freedom?
Never, as long as I am in Thedas^^

[Gervaise]

Xilizhra - I was not just referring to what she claimed when you meet her but what is contained in the books you are advised to destroy. Strangely enough, since I did this without reading them, I still got given the codexes for what they contained and having read them I was even more glad that I got rid of them. Rather like the scrolls of Banastor in Origins, at the end of which the mage states that when you have the power he does, you do not have to follow the normal rules of decency - you decide what is right and wrong according to your parameters.
Mages may have a right to freedom, but with rights you also must accept responsibilities, one of which is not to misuse the power you have been gifted with. That is an entirely reasonable expectation which sadly all too many mages in DA2 did not subscribe to. Of course I would argue that when you have been given any form of power over other people you have a responsibility not to misuse it, which sadly all too many Templars in DA2 have also not adhered to.

[Cobra's_back]

Huntress wrote...

Anders targeted a religion building because is the heart/force for what templars exist and rules.

Am a pro mage when I play hawke and a ferelden, I do not agree 100% of killing the sister's inside the building but none of them give a .. about ferelden's refuge so.. meh in a war there is allways casualties.

Elthina was warned and she dismissed the idea the same way as she dismissed hawke when asked about her position on the matter of mages and templars. can't feel sorry for someone who do not want to listen or do not want take part of the situation, am not sorry.

So what Anders did was right to himself/vengance/justice ( if killed) the mages will remmeber him for many years ( he becomes a martyr). I do not kill him ever and I do not care for sebastian and his brain washing speeches. if Sebastian would have died in the chantry would have been a blssing for my hawke and me. rofl.
War have never be won peacefully when you want to remove soemthing from power and they do not want to listen.. you have to slap them and shake them until they adknowledge you're presence. Wars have casualties, wars have death and destructions.

This hole thing reminds me of politicians: The one trying to gain power shows all the poo the other party has done, the party in power explain whos fault is ( the one sicking power) and because of THEM, they never had enough time to make things right! LOL.

Anyway for 900 years mages have being under templars rules, how much longer will mages have to wait and suffer under them to gain freedom?

 

The change of hearts and minds and military might are often needed to win Human Rights. A terrorist act loses the team sympathies. I played a mage who tried to save mages and get them out of Kirkwall. The goal should have been to get people to rally your cause. Ask how many American were sympathetic to the terrorist after 9/11. The terrorist felt we were the bad guys. Look how they handled their cause.
Before the French Revolution, The people actually had soldier side with them when they reached the Bastille. The French people tried legal petition to win their freedom. The march happened because they thought the nobles were going to attack them. This would have been a better way.
Ander was not a leader and he was not even stable. He angered the citizens instead of winning them over. Taking him out and anyone else stupid enough to hit that target deserved to die.

[Cobra's_back]

Porenferser wrote...

Mages should never be allowed to have full freedom.
I don't want a second Tevinter.

You can give them more freedom and make them responsible for any crimes committed. Templars don't have to go away. The word compromise needs to be added here. The freedom to marry, have children and a home would have kept a majority of them happy. Mages can work and use their magic for good. Keep the sample of their blood to track down rogues.  
Any system that decides to enslave a growing number of people is headed for chaos.
 

[LobselVith8]

Porenferser wrote...

Mages should never be allowed to have full freedom.
I don't want a second Tevinter.

The Dales wasn't a second Tevinter. The Avvar and the Chasind don't emulate the Imperium. The Kingdom of Rivain doesn't try to create a second Tevinter Imperium. The Dalish clans don't try to mirror Tevinter. I don't see how you can think that not forcing mages into servitude to the Chantry would mean another Tevinter Imperium when we have more than a few examples of alternatives societies where mages aren't controlled by templars, and haven't tried to create another Imperium.

[Melca36]

Before people assume the Chantry has helped everyone in Kirkwall...I'd like to point out something.

[Xilizhra]

you decide what is right and wrong according to your parameters.

Obviously. I do that anyway. Luckily, they more or less coincide with standard decency except for the mage imprisonment thing.

Mages may have a right to freedom, but with rights you also must accept responsibilities, one of which is not to misuse the power you have been gifted with. That is an entirely reasonable expectation which sadly all too many mages in DA2 did not subscribe to. Of course I would argue that when you have been given any form of power over other people you have a responsibility not to misuse it, which sadly all too many Templars in DA2 have also not adhered to.

Without rights, why hold to responsibilities?

[Melca36]

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Huntress wrote...

Anders targeted a religion building because is the heart/force for what templars exist and rules.

Am a pro mage when I play hawke and a ferelden, I do not agree 100% of killing the sister's inside the building but none of them give a .. about ferelden's refuge so.. meh in a war there is allways casualties.

Elthina was warned and she dismissed the idea the same way as she dismissed hawke when asked about her position on the matter of mages and templars. can't feel sorry for someone who do not want to listen or do not want take part of the situation, am not sorry.

So what Anders did was right to himself/vengance/justice ( if killed) the mages will remmeber him for many years ( he becomes a martyr). I do not kill him ever and I do not care for sebastian and his brain washing speeches. if Sebastian would have died in the chantry would have been a blssing for my hawke and me. rofl.
War have never be won peacefully when you want to remove soemthing from power and they do not want to listen.. you have to slap them and shake them until they adknowledge you're presence. Wars have casualties, wars have death and destructions.

This hole thing reminds me of politicians: The one trying to gain power shows all the poo the other party has done, the party in power explain whos fault is ( the one sicking power) and because of THEM, they never had enough time to make things right! LOL.

Anyway for 900 years mages have being under templars rules, how much longer will mages have to wait and suffer under them to gain freedom?

 

The change of hearts and minds and military might are often needed to win Human Rights. A terrorist act loses the team sympathies. I played a mage who tried to save mages and get them out of Kirkwall. The goal should have been to get people to rally your cause. Ask how many American were sympathetic to the terrorist after 9/11. The terrorist felt we were the bad guys. Look how they handled their cause.
Before the French Revolution, The people actually had soldier side with them when they reached the Bastille. The French people tried legal petition to win their freedom. The march happened because they thought the nobles were going to attack them. This would have been a better way.
Ander was not a leader and he was not even stable. He angered the citizens instead of winning them over. Taking him out and anyone else stupid enough to hit that target deserved to die.

If you think the war is just going to be Mage VS Templar, you are going to be very disappointed. LOL

There will be citizens who side with the mages.........

The templars also broke up from the chantry according to the epilogue.

There will be Templars fighting on both sides and there will be mages fighting other mages.


Its also wrong to assume all citizens would be angry at Ander's actions. Alot of people DEPEND on mages

[TheAwesomologist]

I kill Anders every time. Regardless of whether or not I side with the Templars or Mages. I just can't find any justification for what he did. If it were someone else, say Feynriel or Alain, I'd still kill them. I just don't understand how no one does anything to Anders in that scene, even when Sebastian is calling out for it. Orsino, Meredith, Aveline, Fenris, and even Sebastian all wait on Hawke. Perhaps a play choice to defend Anders would be a better way of solidifying which side you're on (or LI interest) instead of dumping the decision on Hawke. It just completely broke my suspension of disbelief.

And then the ending got worse...

So yeah, Anders or not, I would still kill the coward.

[Cobra's_back]

Melca36

Terrorist are nothing more than a coward and someone too lazy to do it right.

[Xilizhra]

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Melca36

Terrorist are nothing more than a coward and someone too lazy to do it right.

Coward? It seems to not fit Anders, given how willing he was to die for this.

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

Coward? It seems to not fit Anders, given how he was willing to die for this.

Considering that he was trying to deconstruct a millennia old system that he (and others, like a pro-mage Hawke) saw as slavery, he was willing to die to see his people ultimately free of this system. Anders acted to put an end to a reign that he saw as wrong, and that cost the humanity and life of his first love, Karl.

[Melca36]

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Melca36

Terrorist are nothing more than a coward and someone too lazy to do it right.

See thats the difference between you and me. I don't equate a game to real life events.

I don't care if he blew up the chantry. Its a game. Its NOT real life.

My mages will NEVER kill him. My rogues would.

Everybody should have the right to play how they wish without being judged for it.

[Melca36]

TheAwesomologist wrote...

I kill Anders every time. Regardless of whether or not I side with the Templars or Mages. I just can't find any justification for what he did. If it were someone else, say Feynriel or Alain, I'd still kill them. I just don't understand how no one does anything to Anders in that scene, even when Sebastian is calling out for it. Orsino, Meredith, Aveline, Fenris, and even Sebastian all wait on Hawke. Perhaps a play choice to defend Anders would be a better way of solidifying which side you're on (or LI interest) instead of dumping the decision on Hawke. It just completely broke my suspension of disbelief.

And then the ending got worse...

So yeah, Anders or not, I would still kill the coward.

He wants to die for it. That does NOT make him a coward.

Its better to let him live to see the consequences of his actions instead of making him into a martyr.

[Kelnuin]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Coward? It seems to not fit Anders, given how he was willing to die for this.

Considering that he was trying to deconstruct a millennia old system that he (and others, like a pro-mage Hawke) saw as slavery, he was willing to die to see his people ultimately free of this system. Anders acted to put an end to a reign that he saw as wrong, and that cost the humanity and life of his first love, Karl.

Any coward can die for a cause, try living for a real cause. Vengeance Ander's was willing to die, but he was willing to kill others just as innocent as the ones he wished to save. Being willing to die is not the mark of a brave person, but a suicide victim looking for a reason to justify it. It is harder to live at times with the situation, a suicide is the coward's way, the brave are those who do not give up on life and working to change things. Ander's gave up and instead of fighting for his cause, he resigned himself to death of himself at the expense of others.

I only wish I could of had the chance to evacuate some of the victims, having the Grand Cleric stay for the explosion trying to get people out would of been more satisfying.

Modifié par jamming777, 28 septembre 2011 - 09:47 .

[Melca36]

jamming777 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Coward? It seems to not fit Anders, given how he was willing to die for this.

Considering that he was trying to deconstruct a millennia old system that he (and others, like a pro-mage Hawke) saw as slavery, he was willing to die to see his people ultimately free of this system. Anders acted to put an end to a reign that he saw as wrong, and that cost the humanity and life of his first love, Karl.

Any coward can die for a cause, try living for a real cause. Vengeance Ander's was willing to die, but he was willing to kill others just as innocent as the ones he wished to save. Being willing to die is not the mark of a brave person, but a suicide victim looking for a reason to justify it. It is harder to live at times with our situations, a suicide is the coward's way, the brave are those who do not give up on life and working to change things. Ander's gave up and instead of fighting for his cause, he resigned himself to death of himself at the expense of others.

I only wish I could of had the chance to evacuate some of the victims, having the Grand Cleric stay for the explosion trying to get people out would of been more satisfying.

LOL! You act as if he wiped out Hightown! There were only like 8 people in the Chantry.

[Kelnuin]

There is not an accurate representation of every person in a city of that size or it would of had 5k to 10k inhabitants individually portrayed.

[Xilizhra]

Any coward can die for a cause, try living for a real cause. Vengeance Ander's was willing to die, but he was willing to kill others just as innocent as the ones he wished to save. Being willing to die is not the mark of a brave person, but a suicide victim looking for a reason to justify it. It is harder to live at times with the situation, a suicide is the coward's way, the brave are those who do not give up on life and working to change things. Ander's gave up and instead of fighting for his cause, he resigned himself to death of himself at the expense of others.

He did work to change things, just thought he'd die in the meantime. Apparently he succeeded.

[Melca36]

jamming777 wrote...

There is not an accurate representation of every person in a city of that size or it would of had 5k to 10k inhabitants individually portrayed.

Then why is Cassandra questioning Varric at the Hawke estate?????

The explosion DID NOT wipe out Hightown and it would take longer than 3 years to repair everything. The explosion took out the Chantry and maybe did some minimal damage but thats it.

[HiroVoid]

Only time will tell if he ended up changing things for the better, or if things ultimately end up worse.

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

Coward? It seems to not fit Anders, given how willing he was to die for this.

Considering he wanted to die to not live in the world of his making and to give "justice" to the people he killed, that's pretty cowardly.

[Dave of Canada]

Melca36 wrote...

Before people assume the Chantry has helped everyone in Kirkwall...I'd like to point out something.

...

I don't see your point? What is it? That the Chantry should help people who refuse to help themselves? The Chantry offers shelter, food and education if the person is willing to become Affirmed, they can't help everybody if they don't wish it.

Unless you're telling me an organization who helps people must help everybody to be considered helpful?

Melca36 wrote...
LOL! You act as if he wiped out Hightown! There were only like 8 people in the Chantry.

Um... if you think the largest Chantry we've seen only has eight people in it despite all of them being filled with initiates, clerics, brothers, sisters, mothers, affirmed, templar and the Grand Cleric then you're really bad at seperating lore and cinematics.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 28 septembre 2011 - 10:10 .