260 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

I totally thought that Dave was talking to himself, but then I remembered that I have IanPolaris blocked so I don't have to read his troll posts

[IanPolaris]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I acknowledge it but I don't cling to it, he admit that they went overboard on a few things but that doesn't mean they were intentionally trying to make people support the Templar or that they hate mages.

You seem to have a problem believing Dragon Age 2 wasn't built to not be anti-mage and you cling to his words as gospel when it supports your point, yet you have no trouble telling him in his face he's wrong and hates mages.

I cling to it because the available evidence including DG's public comments indicate that the Devs are in fact taking a hard anti-mage line probably in reaction to the pro-mage public reaction in DAO.


-Polaris

[Dave of Canada]

No, you cling to it because it's the only way to justify how somebody could create something that doesn't agree with what you desire. You cling to it because without it, you wouldn't have a point and lord knows that can't happen.

Your cries of racism, sexism and such could only go so far to justify your "anti-mage" prosecution complex.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 01 octobre 2011 - 03:21 .

[IanPolaris]

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

Yes, that could be true. But, in the game, are abominations as numerous as the usual bandits? I somehow didn't think so.

In many encounters yes they are.  Abominations in game-play seem to be "tier 2" enemies which means they are roughly as common in Shade/Demon/Abomination encounters as bandit archers are in bandit encounters near as I can tell.  In fact the bandit and carta assassins are more dangerous than any of the "abomintions" in actual game play.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Dave of Canada wrote...

No, you cling to it because it's the only way to justify how somebody could create something that doesn't agree with what you desire. You cling to it because without it, you wouldn't have a point and lord knows that can't happen.

Your cries of racism, sexism and such could only go so far to justify your "anti-mage" prosecution complex.

You've added mind-reading to your abilities.  I am impressed.  No, the evidence indicates that the Devs deliberately took a harsh anti-mage tone.  Many reviewers have commented on it, not just me.

-Polaris

[Dave of Canada]

Ha, I'd like to see these reviews.

[TEWR]

Regarding the lyrium brands on the foreheads, IIRC the Tranquil in Ostagar says they're branded with lyrium.

So just because it isn't visible in Origins doesn't mean it doesn't happen and that they don't have a brand on their forehead

http://social.biowar...index/7058889/3

[IanPolaris]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Ha, I'd like to see these reviews.

There have been several posted in the general and other forums that specifically say that mages always go nutso all the time and it was greatly overdone.

This is not revelation.  Even the Devs now admit this...and the Devs are on record of doing this because they perceived that "too many" people sided with mages in DAO.

-Polaris

[MichaelFinnegan]

IanPolaris wrote...

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

Yes, that could be true. But, in the game, are abominations as numerous as the usual bandits? I somehow didn't think so.

In many encounters yes they are.  Abominations in game-play seem to be "tier 2" enemies which means they are roughly as common in Shade/Demon/Abomination encounters as bandit archers are in bandit encounters near as I can tell.  In fact the bandit and carta assassins are more dangerous than any of the "abomintions" in actual game play.

-Polaris

I was actually talking about aggregate numbers, going by which I didn't think abominations were as numerous.

If abominations are as numerous as say bandit archers in such encounters, what would that mean? That simply there are as many mages who're suseptible to being possessed?

Again, I'd question why a bandit/carta assassin ought to be less powerful than an abomination born out of hunger, if that's what you meant. I think in the lore it is implied that "some" abominations can be devastating, and that abominations in general are rare; but we'll have to make some exceptions for the latter when in Kirkwall and acknowledge that some abomiantions need not be any more powerful than a lower grade hunger dremon.

[IanPolaris]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Regarding the lyrium brands on the foreheads, IIRC the Tranquil in Ostagar says they're branded with lyrium.

So just because it isn't visible in Origins doesn't mean it doesn't happen and that they don't have a brand on their forehead

http://social.biowar...index/7058889/3

Here is a quotation from the Codex: Tranquil:

The Formari, the branch of the Circle devoted to item enchantment, is made up exclusively of Tranquil, and is the source of all the wealth that sustains our towers.

You may look up that Codex entry yourself but it's quite clear.  If you are Fomori (and Sol definately is) then you are a Tranquil mage.

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 01 octobre 2011 - 03:49 .

[DarkDragon777]

IanPolaris wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

@Polaris: Then pretend it's another retcon that invalidates your point for the sake of the anti-mage agenda.

Why can't you admit what the Devs already have.  They went way overboard and protraying all the mage antagonists as insane, powerhungry, blood-magic, demon summoning idiots.

If DG can admit this, why can't you?

-Polaris

Well, considering the majority of Kirkwall mages ARE insane, power-hungry, use blood magic, and summon demons, they portrayed them that way to allude to their rebellion maybe. For the sake of story.....

The only way you could prove your point is if there was a Dragon Age game that took place across all of Thedas and every single mage acted as you described.


DA2 was meant to take on said anti-mage stance for a reason.

Modifié par DarkDragon777, 01 octobre 2011 - 04:05 .

[TEWR]

IanPolaris wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Regarding the lyrium brands on the foreheads, IIRC the Tranquil in Ostagar says they're branded with lyrium.

So just because it isn't visible in Origins doesn't mean it doesn't happen and that they don't have a brand on their forehead

http://social.biowar...index/7058889/3

Here is a quotation from the Codex: Tranquil:

The Formari, the branch of the Circle devoted to item enchantment, is made up exclusively of Tranquil, and is the source of all the wealth that sustains our towers.

You may look up that Codex entry yourself but it's quite clear.  If you are Fomori (and Sol definately is) then you are a Tranquil mage.

-Polaris

I'm sorry but no matter how you try and slice it Solivitus is NOT a member of the Tranquil. He neither has a brand (which Origins confirmed that the mages are branded when they are made Tranquil) and he has emotions.

Those things alone point to him not being a Tranquil. Enchantments are not things that are made using only lyrium. Some need lyrium, but not all. Urzara's Tooth was made from just a Dragon Fire Gland.

[IanPolaris]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Regarding the lyrium brands on the foreheads, IIRC the Tranquil in Ostagar says they're branded with lyrium.

So just because it isn't visible in Origins doesn't mean it doesn't happen and that they don't have a brand on their forehead

http://social.biowar...index/7058889/3

Here is a quotation from the Codex: Tranquil:

The Formari, the branch of the Circle devoted to item enchantment, is made up exclusively of Tranquil, and is the source of all the wealth that sustains our towers.

You may look up that Codex entry yourself but it's quite clear.  If you are Fomori (and Sol definately is) then you are a Tranquil mage.

-Polaris

I'm sorry but no matter how you try and slice it Solivitus is NOT a member of the Tranquil. He neither has a brand (which Origins confirmed that the mages are branded when they are made Tranquil) and he has emotions.

Those things alone point to him not being a Tranquil. Enchantments are not things that are made using only lyrium. Some need lyrium, but not all. Urzara's Tooth was made from just a Dragon Fire Gland.

The game lore is undeniable.  Sol is clearly a member of the Formori which means by DA's own lore he must be a tranquil mage.  There is no getting around it.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Well, considering the majority of Kirkwall mages ARE insane, power-hungry, use blood magic, and summon demons, they portrayed them that way to allude to their rebellion maybe. For the sake of story.....

There is actually no evidence of this.  We as a player are only permitted to see the power hungry, insane, demon summoning mages. Why?  Because these are the illegal mages outside the circle already!  It's not a fair sample and the Devs have admitted this.

-Polaris

Edit:  I was ninjaed I see....

Modifié par IanPolaris, 01 octobre 2011 - 04:18 .

[DarkDragon777]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


I'm sorry but no matter how you try and slice it Solivitus is NOT a member of the Tranquil. He neither has a brand (which Origins confirmed that the mages are branded when they are made Tranquil) and he has emotions.

Those things alone point to him not being a Tranquil. Enchantments are not things that are made using only lyrium. Some need lyrium, but not all. Urzara's Tooth was made from just a Dragon Fire Gland.

I think the developers just forgot their lore and didn't make him tranquil. Either that or being an honest businessman is uncommon among mages like him.

IanPolaris wrote...

There is actually no evidence of this.  We as a player are only permitted
to see the power hungry, insane, demon summoning mages. Why?  Because
these are the illegal mages outside the circle already!  It's not a fair
sample and the Devs have admitted this.

-Polaris

Edit:  I was ninjaed I see.... ../../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png

Considering they were being led by a madman who was delving into extremely advanced levels of blood magic, I'm sure a vast majority of them were corrupted.

Modifié par DarkDragon777, 01 octobre 2011 - 04:23 .

[TJPags]

I'm going to show you 10 items. 8 of them are red.

Now I tell you there are 100 more in this box over here.

How many do you think are red?


See, this is the mage issue in a nutshell, to me. You show me 10 mages. 8 need to die. You tell me there are 100 more in the Gallows, but I can't see them. Me, I assume 80 or so of them need to die, based on the sample shown.

Seems a lot of people assume 90 of them are pure, innocent, good people.

They might be, but I just can't see the logic of that thought process.

[DarkDragon777]

TJPags wrote...

I'm going to show you 10 items. 8 of them are red.

Now I tell you there are 100 more in this box over here.

How many do you think are red?


See, this is the mage issue in a nutshell, to me. You show me 10 mages. 8 need to die. You tell me there are 100 more in the Gallows, but I can't see them. Me, I assume 80 or so of them need to die, based on the sample shown.

Seems a lot of people assume 90 of them are pure, innocent, good people.

They might be, but I just can't see the logic of that thought process.

Yes, and assuming all of them or a lot of them are pure and have good intentions is just as foolish as assuming they're all evil, maybe even more so.

Modifié par DarkDragon777, 01 octobre 2011 - 04:27 .

[TEWR]

The game lore is undeniable. Sol is clearly a member of the Formori which means by DA's own lore he must be a tranquil mage. There is no getting around it.

-Polaris

Cutscenes showcasing a lack of a Tranquility brand and the personality of a character are just as much lore as a codex. And Origins had many codexes that conflicted with other facts (established in Origins no less!).

[DarkDragon777]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The game lore is undeniable. Sol is clearly a member of the Formori which means by DA's own lore he must be a tranquil mage. There is no getting around it.

-Polaris

Cutscenes showcasing a lack of a Tranquility brand and the personality of a character are just as much lore as a codex. And Origins had many codexes that conflicted with other facts (established in Origins no less!).

Hmm...suprisingly I'm going to defend Polaris here.  Codex lore is much more reliable than "live lore" (actual gameplay) because Codex lore is written down with absolute intentions, while, if you think of the videogame world itself, there could be many factors that affected him. Developer errors can affect "live lore" as well, making it even more unreliable than Codex lore. You could use various different methods to explain contradictions in Codex lore. You could even say historical documents were corrupted in the DA world itself which made the Codex unreliable. With "live lore", all you can say is that there was a programming error or you wanted to make a character act a certain way no matter the consequences.

Modifié par DarkDragon777, 01 octobre 2011 - 04:39 .

[TEWR]

If Bioware wanted Solivitus to be a Tranquil, they would've asked his VA to speak in a monotone. They would've (or at least should've) picked up on the emotion in his lines.

[TJPags]

Actually, many of the Codices are written by "in world" people, and we've been told those are not always reliable, no?

Is this Codex one of those? Who is it attributed to?

[TEWR]

TJPags wrote...

Actually, many of the Codices are written by "in world" people, and we've been told those are not always reliable, no?

Is this Codex one of those? Who is it attributed to?

A circle mage. Though perhaps he didn't travel and the only Formari he saw were Tranquil in his Circle.