29 réponses à ce sujet

[RagingCyclone]

 Ever since the first act and the quest Blackpowder Promise I have been wondering if the world of Thedas is on the verge of the emrgence of firearms. The Qunari seemingly already have blackpowder and there are factions that seem intent to get it. While I think mages would not have an interest in it, with the advent of events following Act 3 I wonder if the future for the DA world will see blackpowder weapons in the future installments. I'm not saying everyone carrying them or even guns becoming the mainstay weapon, but the emergence of crude designs much like those that emerged in our own world. I could see rudimentary siege canons, multi-person weapons for battlefields like the arquebus, and perhaps areas of devestaion where some designs failed and exploded when tested. 

As a teacher of gun safety and enthusiast of "primitive" firearms I can see the possibilites of the emergence of these crude early designs begin to emerge as early as even DA3, and I was curious if others had thought about this or what some opinions on this possiblity might be. 

[Salaya]

Yes, I thought that too Having played 'Arcanum' recently, I feel it could be a great addition to future games. Maybe not as extended as in 'Arcanum', but with some primitive pistols for PCs and great canons for bigger battles (like catapults from Ostagar).

Anyway, that implementation would require some big effort in plot and story coherency. It's difficult, but I would definitely welcome it

[whykikyouwhy]

I would expect that firearms/explosives will become more common in Thedas, and if we do see how the mage/templar conflict further evolves, it wouldn't surprise me if the templars begin to incorporate that level of weaponry.

[The Baconer]

My mages would sure appreciate having a flintlock as a sidearm.

[mesmerizedish]

Dual-wielding pistol rogues for DAIII!!!

[Xewaka]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
Dual-wielding pistol rogues for DAIII!!!

Although not lacking flair, rapier and pistol wins.

[mesmerizedish]

Xewaka wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
Dual-wielding pistol rogues for DAIII!!!

Although not lacking flair, rapier and pistol wins.

Mixing ranged and melee is more difficult to implement as a fighting style, however. We'll see how Tallis turns out

[Sons of Horus]

Qunari tend to assassinate anyone who comes close to their weapons technology, and they guard it pretty thoroughly.

[jlb524]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Dual-wielding pistol rogues for DAIII!!!

...with back flips.

[RagingCyclone]

While I could envision that kind of pc or npc in perhaps DA4 (depending on the time jumps the devs make in the Dragon Age) I could see perhaps more things like this...the arquebus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arquebus ' class='bbc_url' title='Lien externe' rel='nofollow external'> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arquebus

which was a step of firearm before the musket. But a lot also would depend on what the Qunari already have in existence.

[Wulfram]

A lot of people really don't like firearms in their fantasy.

Would slow loading and inaccurate early handguns be an attractive when you can just pick buy an enchanted bow, I wonder?

[RagingCyclone]

@Sons of Horus---I was thinking possibly released by Tal Vashoth...

@Wulfram--that's why I said I don't see it as widespread usage, but seeing the early beginning's of firearms. Like instead of having all archers attacking one or two might have these...firearms were not widely used either when they were first developed, and at one early point the Catholic church declared it an evil device because of the destruction firearms caused especially in the case of seige canons.

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 28 septembre 2011 - 05:13 .

[Xewaka]

Wulfram wrote...
A lot of people really don't like firearms in their fantasy.

Only every warhammer fan and Iron Kingdon fan and Arcanum fan and Steampunk fan in general. Oh, and Jade Empire fans as well.

Wulfram wrote...
Would slow loading and inaccurate early handguns be an attractive when you can just pick buy an enchanted bow, I wonder?

Ask people if they liked Mirabelle or not.

[mousestalker]

Actually gunpowder might make magic more powerful, rather than less. Sparky mages come into their own when confronted with explosives...

[SkittlesKat96]

I wouldn't be surprised if siege cannons and fire arms were in the future of DA.

That said though it should be remembered that longbows are still nearly as useful if not in some cases better than the earliest firearms.

Better explosives are also a possibility in DA

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 29 septembre 2011 - 10:05 .

[Foolsfolly]

Actually gunpowder might make magic more powerful, rather than less. Sparky mages come into their own when confronted with explosives...

Anders' bomb certainly proves that.

The interesting thing, to me at least, is that all this emerging technology exists in a world with magic. Finding cool new ways to use the lore magic with a touch of a scientific method should produce unique and fantastic devices that we don't have in our world because we don't have magic.

The firearm, for example, would be something Templars would be interested in making since they do not have magic. However, they do have the Tranquil standing around and their minds love a puzzle (but speed isn't their best friend since they're not that imaginative so a Head Scientist will need to work with his fleshy computers).

But street lamps would be very different with lyrium (although lyrium lamps would be poisonous and lyrium addicts would likely constantly kill themselves trying to ingest the lyrium).

I imagine forges would be smaller since there is runecrafting and we've seen metal that can burn without a fuel source. The mind instantly goes to steampunk but I wouldn't want the DA franchise to get into steampunk.

But it would be cool if the series got its Leonardo Da Vinci. Someone who just happens to think about nature, science, and magic and comes up with designs that have the three working in tandem. The Qunari apparently have canon, nerve gas, and the like. It'd be cool to see a bridge which hovers and glows at night for travelers. Or a massive tower or castle with in-door plumbing. All because of one guy who's constantly tinkering.

It doesn't always have to be steampunk. And it doesn't always have to be firearms. And I hope for brand new things. I don't know the magic schools well enough to properly brain storm technologies as off-shoots of them. Nor do I know much about the lore behind runecrafting.

Modifié par Foolsfolly, 29 septembre 2011 - 10:16 .

[jamesp81]

It could happen.

One thing to remember is that the earliest matchlocks were inferior weapons to archery at the time, however. The advantage they had was ease of training. It took years to train a competent archer. Any peasant could be trained to load and fire a matchlock in a few weeks.

The Qunari, according to the game at least, already seem to have naval artillery. The dwarves are also on the verge of the developing the same, so I'd not be surprised to see some brass siege cannons at some point. In our own history, that was the lead-in to the musket and pike era. Thing is, I don't know that we'd see pikes in DA. Pikes were originally developed as a weapon against heavy cavalry, and we've yet to see any mounted combatants in DA anywhere.

Modifié par jamesp81, 29 septembre 2011 - 12:10 .

[Xewaka]

jamesp81 wrote...
Pikes were originally developed as a weapon against heavy cavalry, and we've yet to see any mounted combatants in DA anywhere.

Mounted combatants are everywhere in the fluff. They don't use them ingame because adding horses ingame as usable mounts requires too much effort for too little return.

[RagingCyclone]

@jamesp81--that's exactly my line of thinking. The very early stages. Firearms in our world were not widely accepted for almost a century after their introduction. But like you said there some in the DA universe already playing with them. Dworken in DAA makes explosives using lyrium sand, and Jevaris (sp) wants the recipe that the Qunari have because it doesn't use lyrium. I think the dynamics are already in the DA universe, they just have touched the surface of what it could mean.

@Foolsfolly--indeed...an Avernus type character working with experiments with different materials. Where Avernus was toying with magic I would bet somewhere he has a counterpart working with a more scientific method and mundane materials.

[The Baconer]

Foolsfolly wrote...
Snip

Well said. Enchantment opens up other doors as well. Just imagine lyrium laced cannons and firearms. Medieval explosive rounds ftw.

[RagingCyclone]

Xewaka wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
Pikes were originally developed as a weapon against heavy cavalry, and we've yet to see any mounted combatants in DA anywhere.

Mounted combatants are everywhere in the fluff. They don't use them ingame because adding horses ingame as usable mounts requires too much effort for too little return.

Yes this is very true. In Origins when my Cousland talked to Elora in the Dalish Camp about the halla, you can tell her humans have similar mounts, but she mentions they do not use bridle and saddle with the halla like humans use with their mounts. And then in the Stone Prisnoner the merchant mentions his mule ran off and his companions had left after it.

[Wulfram]

And of course there are those Orlesian Chevaliers.

[Sidney]

Guns might make a nice flavor for different foes but early firearms were impractical except in massed formations where the volume of fire gave you a chance of hitting something.

[Foolsfolly]

Xewaka wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
Pikes were originally developed as a weapon against heavy cavalry, and we've yet to see any mounted combatants in DA anywhere.

Mounted combatants are everywhere in the fluff. They don't use them ingame because adding horses ingame as usable mounts requires too much effort for too little return.

I've got to disagree. While getting your whole team their own mounts isn't something I'd like to see, I think a mounted enemy unit or a few elites or boss fights would be interesting. It'd be a great way to give us a new dynamic in combat. Think fast hit-and-run charges through battles while lesser mooks divide your attention. Then throw in mages that nuke and support, and elites who sponge damage.

I think it could spice up combat significantly.

Sidney wrote...

Guns might make a nice flavor for
different foes but early firearms were impractical except in massed
formations where the volume of fire gave you a chance of hitting
something.

True but you're looking at it backwards. Archery was much the same, use in high volume to increase the odds of hitting something. Fire them over walls and into defenders behind lines, get them up on hills and have them rain arrows on enemy formations. So firearms wouldn't be looked down on because you'd use them in volume.

We'd only want a rifle more accurate than your standard paint-ball gun if you knew about rifling and think of guns as we think of them now.

The cheapness of training men will win out over archery. And then range and accuracy will improve, and then eventually snipers will be hiding in trees and picking off Officers (which is very uncivilized at the time) and war will change.

Volume was the way of war back then. You marched tens of thousands deep, fired hundreds of thousands of arrows and other projectiles, and that was that. Now we fight smaller and more accurately.

So you're looking at the early guns all wrong. They also punctured armor back then for a while. The term bullet-proof comes from blacksmiths who would make their armor and then shoot it with a pistol. The dent (but not break) would prove that it had been bullet-proofed.

You can still have guns appear in the setting and it not change everything over night. Progress was slow back then. Measured in hundreds of years. Progress today is measured in hours. I love being alive at this era in our history. It's so exciting! I'll die in a world vastly different to the one I was born in. That's not true for many people in history.

But that's off topic.

On topic, I can understand not wanting to have firearms and the like in the game. This is a swords and socery game and guns signal the coming of a new age. I guess Bianca's supposed to be that too since its a high-tech repeating crossbow (in a game without crossbows, but they were present in Ferelden). But I don't see it as that high-tech. Sun Tsu had repeating crossbows. Bianca's interesting, however, in the fact that I have no idea how you load her.

But there are other technologies they could explore without getting too far into gunpowder (although I want to see a qunari canon used against Thedas the next time the Qunari go to war). There was a Mythbusters episode where they built a Roman era repeating scorpion that was really accurate and its fire-rate would have been blindingly fast for its era.

I really want to see technology in Dragon Age move forward. I'd like to see some synergy with magic and science. I have many problems with the Fable games but I find their Industrial Revolution a little too familiar for a setting with magic and science.

[TEWR]

I saw mounted combatants mentioned, and well....

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 30 septembre 2011 - 08:31 .