I have a question. I suppose it could be a dumb question, but I haven't been able to find the answer to the question after a good while of searching. I guess it may have been in the game at some point and I can't remember... Also, I'm sorry if I've posted this in the wrong section. I wasn't sure if the content counted as spoilers or not.
But I was wondering what happens to the spirit if the physical body is killed while the spirit is in the Fade? I know in the mage origins, Mouse tells us his body was killed by the templars and his spirit has been wandering ever since. But he was a demon, so he could've been making it all up. Still, he knew a great deal about the Harrowing, but that could be because that part of the Fade is where mages on their Harrowing are sent and he's encountered it a multitude of times before.
As we see in DA2, if you're killed in the Fade, you return to your body (or, if you're a mage, become possessed, or if you're a dreamer, become tranquil). Just wondered about the reverse...
Physical Death When Spirit is in the Fade
Débuté par
Rayne Tempura
, sept. 29 2011 03:53
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#2
Posté 29 septembre 2011 - 04:06
RagingCyclone
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The closest thing I can think of is Niall (Broken Circle) who stated he could not return from the Fade because his body was already dead.
#3
Posté 29 septembre 2011 - 04:34
whykikyouwhy
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But conceivably, couldn't a spirit trapped in the Fade due to physical death be shuttled back into the mortal world (though magical means) like Justice in Awakening? Granted, he wasn't (to our knowledge) the spirit/soul of a mortal, but I would imagine that transference might work the same way.
#4
Posté 29 septembre 2011 - 04:41
RagingCyclone
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@whykikyouwhy--of that I have no idea. I imagine a dev would probably have to answer this one for certain because I honestly could not say. Judging by Niall's statements he could not hinting that his soul/spirit's return was tied to his physical form, but then he may not have had all of the knowledge to know for certain as well. *shrugs shoulders*
#5
Posté 29 septembre 2011 - 05:19
Rayne Tempura
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@RagingCyclone: That's true, I completely forgot about Niall (I knew I was forgetting something). He did seem to be fading, but he also seemed to be entirely aware of himself and his plight. Although, I'm wondering... He was put into the Fade by Sloth like the others... and his body was dying, or had died, and his spirit was fading, which is why he wasn't strong enough to help you... if I remember correctly. I'd have to go back and replay that section or youtube the videos because I can't remember exactly.
So it seems like if your body dies while you're in the Fade, your soul may exist for a short amount of time but will Fade? Or perhaps the magic Uldred had infected the tower with was keeping Niall's spirit in the Fade? I want to say I remember him dying when you killed Sloth and/or Uldred.
But you know, the spirit doesn't actually leave the body. It's always been abundantly clear that when you go into the Fade, you aren't REALLY there in the sense that we can understand. And the Fade isn't something that's like... a second world in the sense that there's a location to it as explained in a codex entry. So I guess the spirit never really separates from the body and when the physical body dies... the spirit does as well?
So it seems like if your body dies while you're in the Fade, your soul may exist for a short amount of time but will Fade? Or perhaps the magic Uldred had infected the tower with was keeping Niall's spirit in the Fade? I want to say I remember him dying when you killed Sloth and/or Uldred.
But you know, the spirit doesn't actually leave the body. It's always been abundantly clear that when you go into the Fade, you aren't REALLY there in the sense that we can understand. And the Fade isn't something that's like... a second world in the sense that there's a location to it as explained in a codex entry. So I guess the spirit never really separates from the body and when the physical body dies... the spirit does as well?
#6
Posté 30 septembre 2011 - 07:17
UltiPup
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whykikyouwhy wrote...
But conceivably, couldn't a spirit trapped in the Fade due to physical death be shuttled back into the mortal world (though magical means) like Justice in Awakening? Granted, he wasn't (to our knowledge) the spirit/soul of a mortal, but I would imagine that transference might work the same way.
I believe only spirits of the Fade can possesses people because they are so close to the Maker. That would give them some special power over mortal vessels that mortals to not have.
#7
Posté 30 septembre 2011 - 09:09
Satyricon331
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In the codex of Aeonar (which we need to visit at some point), it mentions that Andrastians massacred the Tevinter mages there who were in the Fade. Massacring them implies they died, I would imagine, although obviously it's not definitive. Plus it left the area "spiritually damaged," whatever that means.
edit: Also, iirc, all Niall says is that he can't return because he's been in the Fade far too long, and that whereas for you it'd have been an afternoon's nap, he's spent too much time wasting away or something along those lines. I thought he was saying he was too close to death to be revived, not that his body already died.
edit: Also, iirc, all Niall says is that he can't return because he's been in the Fade far too long, and that whereas for you it'd have been an afternoon's nap, he's spent too much time wasting away or something along those lines. I thought he was saying he was too close to death to be revived, not that his body already died.
Modifié par Satyricon331, 30 septembre 2011 - 09:12 .
#8
Posté 01 octobre 2011 - 05:08
Rayne Tempura
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Yeah, Satyricon, that's true. I read that last night, actually, for other reasons, but yes... valid point. The more I'm talking about it, the more I'm thinking... that when your physical body dies, the spirit goes with you.
#9
Posté 01 octobre 2011 - 05:13
RagingCyclone
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Satyricon331 wrote...
In the codex of Aeonar (which we need to visit at some point), it mentions that Andrastians massacred the Tevinter mages there who were in the Fade. Massacring them implies they died, I would imagine, although obviously it's not definitive. Plus it left the area "spiritually damaged," whatever that means.
edit: Also, iirc, all Niall says is that he can't return because he's been in the Fade far too long, and that whereas for you it'd have been an afternoon's nap, he's spent too much time wasting away or something along those lines. I thought he was saying he was too close to death to be revived, not that his body already died.
Regarding Niall, that very well could be. I remember he states that the demon was using his body to fuel the illusion you were stuck in. Whether that meant that his body had expired or was too far gone I think was left to interpretation . His case, though, was the only one I can think of that was close to what the OP was asking about. Like I said, I think a writer or other dev would have to comment to get a clearer understandning of this situation.
Modifié par RagingCyclone, 01 octobre 2011 - 05:13 .
#10
Posté 04 octobre 2011 - 12:36
dragonflight288
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I keep thinking of the villagers in the black marsh, held in the Fade long past their death by the Baroness because she felt they should remain her subjects. Justice said they moved on to someplace beyond the Fade after defeating her, but beyond that....he doesn't know. Maybe the end up at the Maker's side....or they become spirits/demons. I don't know. But there is more than Niall as an example.
#11
Posté 04 octobre 2011 - 04:44
Herr Uhl
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dragonflight288 wrote...
I keep thinking of the villagers in the black marsh, held in the Fade long past their death by the Baroness because she felt they should remain her subjects. Justice said they moved on to someplace beyond the Fade after defeating her, but beyond that....he doesn't know. Maybe the end up at the Maker's side....or they become spirits/demons. I don't know. But there is more than Niall as an example.
Or maybe they just disappear?
#12
Posté 05 octobre 2011 - 06:21
SkittlesKat96
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If they die in the normal world then they are pretty much trapped in the fade.
Maybe after some time they become a spirit or demon themselves?
Like I said above maybe it is possible that people trapped in the fade become like the spirits and demons of the fade...or they just disappear/die/go where ever dead people in DA go.
Whatever it is it probably hasn't been answered yet in the game.
Maybe after some time they become a spirit or demon themselves?
whykikyouwhy wrote...
But conceivably, couldn't a spirit trapped in the Fade due to physical death be shuttled back into the mortal world (though magical means) like Justice in Awakening? Granted, he wasn't (to our knowledge) the spirit/soul of a mortal, but I would imagine that transference might work the same way.
Like I said above maybe it is possible that people trapped in the fade become like the spirits and demons of the fade...or they just disappear/die/go where ever dead people in DA go.
Whatever it is it probably hasn't been answered yet in the game.
Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 05 octobre 2011 - 06:23 .
#13
Posté 05 octobre 2011 - 04:40
Rayne Tempura
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I know the Chantry believes that those that believe in and serve the Maker go to His side when they die and those that don't wander "Oblivion" aka the Fade for eternity. Though it doesn't seem like there's really proof of that... And how the Fade goes from being the locale of the Golden City and the realm of the Maker's first children to, at worst, hell and, at best, afterlife for the non-believers is kind of strange. I know many of the spirits were corrupted, but that doesn't explain its entirety.
Also, there's a lot ambiguous about the Fade, so I guess it's hard for us to really answer much about it. Still, in a human, what goes into the Fade seems more like conciousness, not the spirit. We trasnfer our conciousness from our physical world to the spirit world, but it seems as though our spirit stays exactly where it is. The Fade also seems to be more a realm behind our realm, not the great spiritual ring above the earth. When mages go into the Fade, I don't think they're going far... And remember the codex entry about the Veil: the enchanter said it wasn't like crossing a curtain, but rather opening your eyes.
Also, there's a lot ambiguous about the Fade, so I guess it's hard for us to really answer much about it. Still, in a human, what goes into the Fade seems more like conciousness, not the spirit. We trasnfer our conciousness from our physical world to the spirit world, but it seems as though our spirit stays exactly where it is. The Fade also seems to be more a realm behind our realm, not the great spiritual ring above the earth. When mages go into the Fade, I don't think they're going far... And remember the codex entry about the Veil: the enchanter said it wasn't like crossing a curtain, but rather opening your eyes.
