71 réponses à ce sujet

[jmlzemaggo]

Because of that very thread, I started to replay it, after four years. I always kept a great memory of it, but I forgot how great that module really is, now that I can see it maybe better today as a more experienced player, in the writing, its design, its "realism", even if it's a bit linear behind the amazing front row fireworks... even being a "smart-linearity" partisan type of player myself... 
There is nothing I hate more than being confused or even lost when gaming.  
Mostly because of these "New options available!" pop-ups you mentionned in the transition areas. Which, in fact, gives you... only one choice... To make it simple: your next quest. 
It's like living in the Middle Age, but already travelling with a rocket through Cape Canaveral. Way too much of a "high-techy exploit" for my test.
Quite 'desimmersing', but it's minor compared to the general quality of the module. 
Which makes me realize how much I hate that 'module' word for a game... the "rocket syndrom", I suppose...
Dialogs, smitty's improvements, constantly updating gear in shops, (customizable!) horses (a "horse system" maybe a bit outdated today, but I can't forget WCC was the first module offering me the "horse riding" feature)
It's a truly written story, before anything else, and nothing can beat that. That "Dragon Castle" chapter, for instance, is still one of my best NWN memories. 

Game on!

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:00 .

[DevaWinblood]

TimG wrote...

I tried WCOC but couldn't get past the "horse for helmet bug"

Sorry, I couldn't quite fix that bug.   I did get it fixed on most systems.   We really pushed the engine in NWN further than it was supposed to be.

What you called "horse for helmet bug" I would curse at and call "Horse Hat" while trying to fix it.

It is heavily tied to the mounting animation.   In fact when we were working on that module the animator that made that told me I should just scrap it and make you appear on the horse.   I told him the animation looked too good and I wanted to make certain other people saw it.   WOW and other things you just go from standing to being mounted instantly.   I thought the mounting animation was classy and I fought to keep it in the module.

What it boils down to is the following in the engine:
If you set a tail, a phenotype, and possibly an appearance all placed close together in time (though delays can make it worse) the engine will display something like horse hat.   If you debug it and make a wand or something to check and see if the phenotype, tail (how horses are implented), and appearance are correct they will be set correctly in code but, not show properly on screen.

I spent probably 100+ hours working on this issue for Wyvern Crown of Cormyr.   I had all kinds of delays in place because, that logically is how you would think it would be fixed.   I'd get it looking great on my machine and then our testers would jump in, or Bioware's, or Atari's and suddenly they'd have horse hat.   Sometimes people would be on a machine of lower specs than mine sometimes much greater specs.

A number of us started doing tests together and we found out that the most likely way to avoid this was to immediately apply all those changes in sequence with absolutely no delays.

This did work in most (not all) cases and I am sorry you experienced horse hat.

A year or so after that Bioware asked me to make the official scripts for the public so others could implement horses.   That is what is in the 1.69 patch.

There are quite a few switches you can enable that will disable mounting/dismounting animations, tweak timings, etc.   So, you can with those scripts go the WOW (instant mount) route.   Again it was not perfect as we were doing things with the engine that it was not designed to handle.

I would have liked to have revisited Wyvern Crown and put my 1.69 patch scripts into place.   I think that potentially could have helped.   That was not an opportunity that ever came up since 1.69 was the last officially sanctioned project for NWN1.

I still consider it my all time favorite game.   I built so many things with it.  I got a computer out of it.   My wife and I were flown to Bioware in Edmonton for a few days thanks to it.

Good times...    Now, I may need to buy more copies at GOG.COM since I had my cd keys on nwn.bioware.com and can't get to the 4 or 5 different keys I had.   I have my own.   I don't have my wife's, and my two sons'.

Anyway, I felt like chiming in about the old Horse Hat problem.

-- Deva Winblood,   Scripter - Wyvern Crown of Cormyr,  Scripter - NWN 1.69 Patch,  Creator - NPC Activities,  Co-Creator - RTS - Harvest of Souls


EDIT: I will say I've learned a lot more about that bug since those days.   If you make any modules where you make NPCs that are the same NPC but spawn with different heads, phenotypes, clothes, etc to simulate crowds you'll sometimes see a headless person.   If you save and reload it is usually fixed as the head was right in the system but, the display side did not update.   Sometimes leaving and coming back to an area will fix this as well.   This may have had some impact on Horse Hat as well so, I throw that out there for any of you that run into in Wyvern Crown of Cormyr.

Modifié par DevaWinblood, 14 octobre 2011 - 08:12 .

[DevaWinblood]

jmlzemaggo wrote...

Are you using some kind of "combat animatons" or did you alter the phenotype of your PC in some ways?
Or the  Customize Character, by Kamiryn?
That really does ring a bell, I saw that happening, and it's quite an easy fix... but I'm a still a little confused. 
So far I see it as a phenotype, (or racial?) problem. Are you human? No, not you, but... 
More infos? 

If they start out the module with a horse then as Bannor Bloodfist (tester extrodinate who saved my butt many times) pointed out then something is wrong with the character as you don't start with a horse.

Horses consisted of a unique appearance
A phenotype with bowlegged look
and the horse as a tail.

If you imported a character and it did not have the 3 of these things set correctly you'd get the horse hat.

What we found with the engine though is that the phenotype, tail, and appearance could in fact be set correctly and the visual part of the engine did not correctly update.   This is what causes most horse hat symptoms, and invisible heads in other dynamic content modules.

So, yes using a tool like you suggested could fix the problem especially since saving, exiting, and then loading the game from your save potentially could fix it as well (though not if it was a character already on a horse).


EDIT: Occasionally in testing when trying to fix this we ended up with some things worse than Horse Hat.   Things not appropriate for younger audiences that you'd only expect to hear about from trips to smoke filled back rooms in Mexico involving a donkey.

Modifié par DevaWinblood, 14 octobre 2011 - 08:29 .

[jmlzemaggo]

@ DevaWinblood and WCC players candidates
I just replayed WCC, and I had the greatest time again, even more than 4 years ago when I bought it. So firsty, thanks!
I had that "horse hat" right away, but was lucky enough to fix it quite easily for it didn't bother me no more afterwards. (All my PCs have highly "illegal" origines, no birth certificate... )

For the records:
2 3 steps: 
1) Phenotype: Set your PC back on the back of that horse. (I used Customize Character, by Kamiryn myself, but debugging might work)
2) Dismount: Simply dismount the "fake horse" through the radial menu, just like you'd do with a regular one. 
3) Enjoy WCC
which actually makes three steps... ***editing***
Sorry. :innocent: 

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 14 octobre 2011 - 10:18 .

[TimG]

Thanks for the additional background information. I created a new character and picked some different options and got going again. It's been fun so far although I am not a fan of jousting. My character is named after Antoine de Bracke of the famous Red Lancers in honor of the "horse" themed module.
good times indeed!

[Tchos]

jmlzemaggo, you finished playing through it again already? I've been playing it for days! I've just been killed in a big fight in Polter's Fort, and am taking a brief break before attempting it again. I had to give up on getting the info Manthis wanted, because I never put any points into the intimidation skill, and that's the only way to get the info, it seems. I moved on from there.

I never had the "horse hat" problem others mention.

I'm not a fan of jousting, either, but there was more than enough other content to love about this module. It's a shame it's no longer available for sale.

[TimG]

I never could get Alice to give me the quest to help Manthis. My only two choices were to spy on the castle and get a horn from the Priest at the temple. Neither of those seemed like they'd do so I declined them.

[TimG]

edit for clarity, when I tried a different tack from a save even when I got the unicorn horn all I could do was give it over to Alice. No other option presented itself.

[Tchos]

The option that was presented to me when I returned to Alice was to [Intimidate] her into telling me who was the original owner of the horn. I had focused entirely on Persuasion, and not Intimidate or Bluff. Somehow, my Intimidate and Bluff stats were actually at -1 at the time, despite no status effect being on me that I could see.

I had tried every other possibility. I tried to talk to Jenny Drabb, who was in love with an unnamed noble hunter, while I carried the horn, to see if she might know who had owned it, but she had nothing to say about it. Magnus also had no information about its origins. Sir Drake Huntcrown in the Sound of Thunder was another likely candidate to know something about hunters (based on his name), but he also had nothing to say. The mysterious house called Lord Huntcrown's House was locked and impossible to break into, with a servant's voice saying to come back later. Basically, every logical lead to perform an investigation was simply not an option, and the only acceptable path was to threaten a woman who runs a criminal underground.

Modifié par Tchos, 15 octobre 2011 - 07:00 .

[TimG]

yeah, I'm stuck with it too. Hopefully an answer will present itself...
I bought the horn from Magnus but that didn't make any difference that I could see. I never found Lord Huntsilver himself anywhere.

[jmlzemaggo]

TimG wrote...
... and get a horn from the Priest at the temple. Neither of those seemed like they'd do so I declined them.

Did you really decline the "horn" thing? 
'hope you've got a savegame...  

Actually, that could be one of the few NWN rules: never decline a quest. 
I accepted any single one of them. To see everything which was to be seen, as always. Every dialog, every single line of it. 
(I played a Weapon Master, so intimidating was my religion.) 
I tried Jenny for the same reasons, but she has nothing to do with that horn and her lover isn't the one you and I thought he was. 
I was not thrilled by this threatening idea either. Alicia seems to be the key that opens everything. Even some locked door... 
I remember seeing some +intimidating+ gear somewhere...

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 15 octobre 2011 - 09:06 .

[jmlzemaggo]

TimG wrote...
edit for clarity, when I tried a different tack from a save even when I got the unicorn horn all I could do was give it over to Alice. No other option presented itself.

I'm not fond of this all "Alice story" the way it's been handled to tell you the least. 
Also because I hate threatening a woman, even in a game... if I didn't choose to play evil myself. 

SPOILERS
I think I gave it to Alice too, and nothing happened... until... something happens. 
The Lord's mansion (in that corner near Alice's) should open once you leave the priest... after molesting him a bit...) But the Lord is only an option anyway, even if I supposed he could be a way to end the quest as well, if you choose to deal with him. Not my choice, so I wouldn't know, as I was concerned this could just kill the centaur (or is that satyr?) quest forever. 
But the Lord has to do something with the centaur hunting anyway. Two reasons to visit him. 

I read somewhere than the team who made WCC had to rush a bit its writing for some reasons. 
That didn't surprise me... 

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 15 octobre 2011 - 09:27 .

[Tchos]

jmlzemaggo wrote...
The Lord's mansion (in that corner near Alice's) should open once you leave the priest... after molesting him a bit..

I did try visiting the mansion after getting the horn from the priest, and also after talking to Alice, both after not giving it to her and also after giving it to her, and it never opened.  Possibly it's because I wasn't able to intimidate the priest either?  I could only use persuasion on him, to get him to sell it to me.  Could be it only opens up if you successfully intimidate him.

I'm past that part now, anyway, and it's too bad I couldn't experience the rest of that content no matter how I tried, but I'm surprised how much more content there has been afterward!  I thought it was all over when I finished Polter's Fort, but it's still going strong!

Though that leads me to another dissatisfactory bit in Polter's Fort (which was otherwise a really fun and enjoyable experience), which I'll warn anyone not to read if you don't want a...

SPOILER



...with the talking sword.  Between the available actions of telling him "No, I can't set you free" (which sounded to me like an evil statement) and simply picking up the sword, when I picked up the sword he screamed "You've destroyed me!" and I got two alignment points toward EVIL!  After reloading, I found that "I can't set you free" is the "good" choice.  I tried throwing holy water and a potion of bless on the sword, to no avail, and I had Edgar the Paladin with me, too.  Why couldn't he do something about it?

I even took the sword to the priest in town, to see if he'd say anything about it, and also to the smith.  And they said nothing!

Modifié par Tchos, 15 octobre 2011 - 10:00 .

[jmlzemaggo]

The sword...
If I remember right (I was playing a neutral-good alignement myself, so the numbers/results might depend on your own alignement), I picked it up, set it free by destroying it on the spot (by radial-using it, not using it in a fight) which let me with the same blade but broken, one I could show to the priest for him to give me some infos, including his advice to show it to the smithess.
Now, she did say something, it's a very tiny line in her dialog, but she does say she could use it (if you carefully read the name given to that sword once broken... which I forgot, you should see it in her dialog when she makes a list of the pieces you're carrying in your backpack) as some material for her to to be able to enhance that "hero weapon" she could craft for you.
Which, at this point, should be an "enhancement +3" one, regarding the quantity (3) of ancient pieces you already found, hopfully.
Beside, it's also probably the best moment to have that special weapon finally crafted, (I found a Bodak tooth being the best ingredient to add to it), for the next but best step (+4, for 4 ancient pieces found) comes a bit too late in the game in my opinion to enjoy her gift long enough.

(Be warned if you're using Tony K's AI, the crafting cutscene might freeze the game.
Just move your override folder aside for a while if this ever happen)

About the horn, did you ever run into Manthis on your way to the fort?
That Lord was actually the hunter Manthis wanted to know about. Nothing more, but some 1500/2000? xps lost all together I suppose. 

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 15 octobre 2011 - 11:43 .

[Tchos]

I'm not sure I can break the sword at this point, but I can check if there is such an option in the menu. Can I also break down the other two weapons I forged from the magic weapons? I made 1 weapon from each broken piece, so they're both +1.

I did meet Manthis, yes, and disappointed him.

[jmlzemaggo]

I'm afraid once those weapons are forged... it's for ever.
Check the sword itself, it comes with its very own "special use".

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Actually, I seriously wish that the old DLA forums had been saved by someone. It is not likely that the wayback machine would have all the threads, but it might.

There were complete quest lists, with complete solutions (read spoilers) available on there though.


As to the different quests, you seriously can NOT accept them all, at least not in one play-through.  They were setup to be class/alignment specific, and once a choice was made in one way, you were pretty much locked out of the others.  I remember having to re-test as several different types of character to be able to test all the different options on the sub-quests.


Edit: Nope, wayback doesn't seem to have the WCoC forum crawled. Likely since DLAdventures.net required a username/password combo to access those forums.

Modifié par Bannor Bloodfist, 16 octobre 2011 - 01:32 .

[Tchos]

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...
Actually, I seriously wish that the old DLA forums had been saved by someone. It is not likely that the wayback machine would have all the threads, but it might.

There were complete quest lists, with complete solutions (read spoilers) available on there though.

Nope, wayback doesn't seem to have the WCoC forum crawled. Likely since DLAdventures.net required a username/password combo to access those forums.

I think this is what you seek.

The first page of Quest Walkthroughs is missing, but page 2 and page 3 are there, as well as Puzzle Walkthroughs.

Someone should repost that information in a thread here.

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Ahhh, I "assumed" that since I couldn't get to page one, that the others were not there either.

Thanks for finding it.

As to needing it, nope, I don't, I played that mod well over 150 times during QA Testing, complete playthroughs. That does not include the several hundred more plays where I just tested specific things.

I was only searching to help others here.

As pages 2 and 3 show, at the bottom of each quest listing, there is a section that explains the possible rewards, and actions that a player can take. I don't know if we ever listed the exclusionary issues though... meaning that if you do 'x', you can't do 'y' later on in the mod. At least not as a separate listing.

Anyway, I do have some fond memories of the story and module in general, and some frustrations of course as well... I had a tough time with the original jousting, until we worked out some of the kinks, and then I learned the secrets to beating it every time, and, well, that took the fun out of it!

Note: I also spent well over 200 hours in specific tileset testing for TNO, and the other sets included/created for that mod. Gawd, that brings back very painful memories, TNO (Castle Exterior, Rural) was one huge tileset, doing things that no one had attempted before...lots and lots of testing, and re-testing... several thousand bug reports submitted, with about 80% of those getting fixed before WCoC was released. That last 20% were primarily just visual things, that most folks wouldn't notice while playing unless they are tileset centric like I seem to be. There were several hundred other bug reports that were placed during QA on the story, npc's, placeables, etc... a good 99.9% of those were fixed as required by Bioware before we could release WCoC.

[Tchos]

I meant you were looking for it, not that you needed it. I thought you might like to repost the info on this forum to make it easier for people to find, since you were involved in that project.

[jmlzemaggo]

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...
As to the different quests, you seriously can NOT accept them all, at least not in one play-through.  They were setup to be class/alignment specific, and once a choice was made in one way, you were pretty much locked out of the others.

Are you saying there are more quests you cannot see depending on your class/alignment? Good to know. I didn't. 
What I meant is just I was able to accept all quests, as long as they were offered to me.
Even if they looked fishy or even evil at first, but turned out to be doable without any alignment penalty in the end, surprisingly. 

I remember a complete walkthrough as well ***memories*** but couldn't find anything anymore either. 
So, this is already a great find, Tchos
I read a bit of it, enough to make me realised I might be mistaking saying there is a "special use" button on that sword... when I now remember ***Shame... *** using that "Special Holly Water" sold by the Priest in fact... 

@ Bannor Bloodfist
All this heavy "Castle playtesting" made one the nicest castles in NWN history in the end. 
Great job here. Grateful. 

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 16 octobre 2011 - 08:13 .

[Bannor Bloodfist]

I can no longer remember all the quests/sub-quests, but I believe there is at least one that is more or less class/alignment specific. It truly is difficult to remember it all now, I did so, so, so many play tests.

I do remember requesting fairly early on (there was a team vote made on this as well) that all the quests be made available to every player regardless, but I seem to remember that there was one at least, that only showed up if you did something specific.

After the team voted, and by BenWH's main goal, as much as possible was done to allow everyone to find/do everything, but each quest changed slightly as your end choices were made. The idea was that your choices FORCE certain penalties or bonuses to your character.

I know I was forced to test as evil, as good, as neutral and make some other choices along the testing phase to ensure that as much as possible was tested. I do know that if you play evil all the way, or play good all the way, the end was different. Unfortunately, as I mentioned much earlier in this thread, the "end" was designed to be a stepping stone to part 2 which was never created. Whatever "end" you went with (by your own choices) was supposed to affect even more as the 2nd part was played through.

The team did a roundtable type discussion on this, actually many times, and one of the most common thoughts was that most modules out there, don't really force you to pay penalties for negative play styles. Or allow you to do anything at all regardless, and still "win" etc. We even discussed having folks in a given location recognize your actions when you opened a box and stole something. I do know, that there are spots where you can turn the entire town against yourself if you make certain "mistakes" in your actions.

I also remember that when we finally got to Bioware "Final testing" phase, that Stanley Woo gave me some useful tips on how to defeat just about any mod out there. He knows all the tricks. And I am not talking playing in DM mode but character tweaks to give you more speed, power etc, as well as play-style tips on how to more effectively test for unbalanced rewards and stuff. At the time, I had believed that DLA (and me in particular) had already tested for pretty much everything, other than the horse hat bug which kept kicking our collective butts. Stanley showed how, (by being too close to the story, knowing too much about it's development) things typically get missed. Needless to say, we had to go back to drawing board so to speak, and repair some things that didn't stand up.


Annnyyyywwwaaayyy, would it be worth re-playing as true evil or true good, when you had already played it the other way around? Would you see all that much that was different?

I think the answer is yes, WCoC as written by BenWH was truly written for re-playability, to allow you to "find" things you might have missed the first, 2nd or 15th time through.

Are the differences all that great? Depends, and you are not likely to end up with a much more powerful weapon at the end etc, as those specific side quests are available to everyone etc, BUT, you might see a difference in how some of the things play out.

I also know that all the side quests were written in such a fashion as to not necessarily be required (some folks don't like being led around by the nose) but can add more "flavor" to your experience in the mod. The primary quests, well, you are basically forced, led around by your chin hairs, to go through as certain elements are required for the end game section, but many of the smaller side quests can easily be skipped.

I don't remember the details on this part, but I think that a FULL play-through requires around 48 hours of play time, while the accelerated play style can be accomplished in something around 24-28 hours (by skipping all side quests). Clues were given throughout the mod on those primary quests, so that you could fairly easily figure out which ones you HAD to do to not get stuck with nothing else to do. Ben did a great job with the dialogs throughout the module (I know, I had to manually spell check and plot check them all) .

DLA worked as a pretty darned good team, some of those guys are really excellent creators in one fashion or another. What is sad, is that 98% of them are completely gone from the community now. Having WCoC initially cancelled after years of work drove a lot of them away. When it was resurrected it was done in a fashion that burned out a few of us, and some did not return for the final testing/release bits. After release, DLA hung together for a while longer, but, well, life got in the way of things and the entire team was very disappointed by how the whole thing was handled. Our collective hatred for all things Atari still boils in most of our blood.

There were other issues at that final release phase of things as well. Most particularly that DLA thunder was literally stolen by the free release of Darkness Over Daggerford, especially considering how unfinished that module was at the time of release. Folks STILL, to this day, think that the DOD team created the tilesets in that mod... they did create some additional tiles, groups, etc, for additions to Castle Rural, but only a few bits were actually their own content. I have nothing against a team releasing works that they did, but what hurt DLA was the timing of said release. It was done in a fashion to deliberately hurt both Bioware, and Atari's possible sales of WCoC etc... it also indirectly hurt DLA... It put another nail in the coffin lid. Anyway, I have no problem with folks releasing THEIR work, but when they are also throwing away the collective work of someone else entirely that is NOT a good thing to do. All they had to do was wait a bit, then give it to the community as a parting gift instead of deliberately releasing just weeks ahead of the KNOWN release date of WCoC, thus damaging someone else with it.

[Tchos]

Bannor, I find that kind of background information very interesting and helpful in piecing together a picture of what was going on at that time.  Thank you.

Also, I just found some information in a post you made on the old Bioware forum (via the Wayback Machine) that pertained to my earlier Manthis quest trouble.

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...
You can find this out either via managing to force / persuade the information out of Alice Broadhand, or via clues from Kathryn Hawklin.

You have to be a bit of a rogue, or less than righteous and speak with Alice as she gives you a test to see how lawful you are (IE A true paladin will never get the option, OR if anyone in your party is a true paladin). If you are too lawful, she won't give the option.

(Emphasis mine)

I had Edgar in my party at the time, so that might be why I couldn't get that information.

Modifié par Tchos, 17 octobre 2011 - 05:10 .

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Yep, that is one of them, there are others. Your choices of companions, and ethics? make a big difference in the options on the sub-quests, and the primary quest(s) as well..

That was all part of the design to allow/encourage, replaying the module. You can "learn" the ropes the first time through, but likely miss some things along the way. Then you can go back and make better/worse choices as to your companions and your main character's lawfulness, righteousness etc..

I think that is only one where you are completely blocked from a side quest by playing a lawful character though... Although, I just can't remember all the dialog choices and what the prospective consequences were. The way back machine did save two out of the three pages of clues/tips etc, but page one still had some stuff that would be useful.

Anyway, enjoy the mod. Go back and play it again, and again... 'till you get bored with it anyway. MOST of the "negative" consequences can be avoided. Most of the time, there are alternate ways of accomplishing whatever tasks need to be accomplished.

I can remember attempting to play as a Knight, attempting to gain Purple Dragon Knight status etc... and not being able to figure out how to get certain things that I KNEW were there... At first, for probably a dozen or so playthroughs, Ben didn't give us clues... he was trying to determine if enough information, tips, and clues were already in the mod for folks to be able to figure things out, and really needed the "unguided" play testing to see how good it would all hold together... I had "heard" about certain weapons, or side quests, from different discussions with the other play testers that were basically under my control, but had not found all of them yet at the time... Finally, after some changes were made to different dialogs/quests, Ben started feeding us with more data so we could perform tests faster. By this time, I had already played the mod to the final stage at least 10 times or so... Anyway, at that point, I truly learned how well Ben had written the mod. There were all sorts of things that I had missed, despite the multiple playthroughs. Lots of extra details and well written side quests etc.

Fun. I really wish we could all tickle Ben's ear with enough requests to release the 2nd part. I know he had continued work on it, even after everything else was shut down, planning on releasing it later... I just sent him an email to the old address I have for him, but I don't know if he is around anymore.

[jmlzemaggo]

 For the records, I played a neutral good PC, and I remember reading something at the very end of WCC, saying I went through all the "options" (52 out of 52). I wish I didn't forget the real name Ben gave to this, not 'options', 'experiments'?, but I found it being a fine idea for those playing carefully around all events, quest and alignments the author threw at us.  Even without that, you can feel being followed all along the gameplay. Big Ben is watching you. And I assure you, Bannor Bloodfist, as a player, you can feel the depth of that game all the way. A sign of a great teamwork, next to a great leadership. Another reason to feel a bit deezy as soon as some feeble, unbalanced or "left unattended for some Real Life reasons" event or dialog, suddenly pops up, and shakes the whole WCC dream down. 
The price of perfection: time... which often means unfortunately money nowadays. 
Don't forget you guys did excellently in the end. And I appreciated your work, even more today that I learned the hard but best way my NWN over those last years of palying. 
& sorry for my frenchglish, (why do you think we drink wine?) but I had to try saying how I felt playing your masterpiece. 
It could have been perfect? Well, so could I... 

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 17 octobre 2011 - 08:10 .