13 réponses à ce sujet

[d1sciple]

so we're never given the specifics but it's safe to assume he's been rebuilt using both genetically modded 'new' parts and a bunch of cybernetics, but after that we're given nothing else except a few upgrades that hint at shep being a cyborg, why?

TIM stresses he wants Shep just the way he was but that wasn't possible so they used some cybernetics, but not C-Sec, Aria or anyone else picks on that, they just think you're you.

why aren't they a bigger part of the plot? for most people, including me, it's a plotline you forget after 10mins cos it's never mentioned again, unless you're Renegade and then Sheps robot eyes are constantly staring at you, asking you the question why if Lee Majors the Million Dollar Man could have Binocular Eyes can't i?

it must of been Mirandas doing, did she specifically not enhance Shep incase he was a danger, or not himself? or is she just a **** and didn't want anyone better more perfect than her on this mission?

Modifié par d1sciple, 30 septembre 2011 - 04:19 .

[Bogsnot1]

Play Overlord.

[spartacusthegod]

What Bogsnot said. Overlord uses Shepard's cybernetics. Fairly well done for that bit, I must say. It WAS rather unexpected.

The main reason it's not a big part of the plot, is because the cybernetics are kinda like Shepard's armor, in a sense. It doesn't alter who he is, it's simply an artificial piece of equipment he needs to use to be in the field. Except this field just happens to be EVERYWHERE, not just the battleground.

It's only a shell. Not even entirely. All it is, is a mechanical repair of what was already there. If, for example, a leg was missing, then they would replace that piece, and repair what else they could. Like what happened with Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker, for example. In the fight on Mustafar, he lost his left arm and both legs at the knee/elbow. The rest of his body was horribly burnt, and he should have been dead, but Palpatine saved him. Replaced what was msising, and repaired the rest.

Does it get majorly mentioned in the rest of the Star Wars saga? No, not until the very end. It doesn't change who Darth Vader was, simply altered his appearance. Bit of a stretch, applying that scenario to Shepard's (kinda fits, TIM's quite the evil ******), but I'm sure you can see my point. Not major to the storyline, because it isn't what makes him, HIM. "It is not what we say, but what we do, that defines us," if I may borrow a quote from a favorite movie of mine.

[d1sciple]

don't get me wrong, i would of puked if they had of had some sort of Deus Ex like augmentation system, but i'm surprised it's not a big deal as it doesn't fit with my view of the ME universe, so my view must be way off.

there doesn't seem to be alot of augmenting going on, in fact i'd say in all the ME resource i've read or played through there's no mention that cybernetic augmentation is common place at all, which is why i brought the subject up. Saren is the only other character i can think of with obvious mechanical repairs/upgrades, which is why i find it strange that no one else does or mentions it.

if it was similar to the aforementioned Deus Ex or even the Ghost in the Shell universe where cyborgs are commonplace and cybernetic augmentation was undertaken by virtually everyone then i'd understand it not getting singled out, but as i said it does seem special, like Shep may be the only cyborg human in history, wouldn't that be a big deal?

no sly mention from Aria about being a battery or anything from Bailey pointing out Sheps brand new parts. hell, even your old teamates have nothing to say about it, but then they don't have alot to say about Shep coming back period, so wondering why they wouldn't go into detail about how would be a stretch.

and yes there is Overlord and though it's an incredible DLC, one of the best add ons for any game i've ever played, it still doesn't answer the biggest questions for me, those being to do with augmentation in the universe in general, the popularity of it, the possible benefits/pitfalls etc.

Modifié par d1sciple, 30 septembre 2011 - 06:49 .

[Bogsnot1]

Your view is based on your experiences from other games, such as Dues Ex, Cyberpunk, Shadowrun and the like. The only people whose views on how cybernetics work in the ME universe, are the devs. Its your job to wrap your head around their universe, not their job to modify their universe to suit your preconceptions on cybernetics.
Some people are perfectly happy being human, even if does mean heavy genetic modification, they are still themselves, and not reliant on 3rd party additions.
Besides, could you imagintion how much grief we would all be in if Microsoft did the coding for any cybernetics?

[d1sciple]

i'm just a sci fi freak, the type that prefers the politics and the intricate tech specifics of the Ghost in the Shell universe over the explosions and plot holes of Star Wars one lol

Modifié par d1sciple, 30 septembre 2011 - 11:13 .

[JamieCOTC]

Shepard's death and resurrection is dealt w/ in more a comic book style than in a hard science fiction style.  "People do come back from the dead."  <- That's how I deal w/ it.

But the Lazarus Project is supposed to pop up again in ME3. So, maybe they will do more w/ it in the final game than in ME2. 

[spartacusthegod]

Well, with cybernetics in general, all the enhancements and upgrades put into Shepard cost ridiculous amounts of money that Cerberus pulled from everywhere possible. Normal people, hell, even most high-ranking or rich people, wouldn't be able to afford most of it. The cybernetics put into Shep were only meant as repairs though, not as augmentations or replacements, that's the big issue.

I think cybernetics are used ONLY for repair and replacement, not advancement and augmentation. Saren's arm and the Illusive Man's eyes are the only exceptions I've seen to that. Garrus had cybernetic repairs for his face and head, and Shepard had them for everything that was broken.

Also, d1sciple, pardon the SW reference. It was my first sci-fi experience. And the books are much better than the movies, just saying. Movies are only the most well-known part of it, the books (especially the ones during the Clone Wars and during the segment where Jacen goes evil) are amazing.

[d1sciple]

all good, i didn't mean anything by it, just that like alot of sci fi SW, Alien etc. you're plopped into this universe with little to no explanation of what that universe is and how it operates but then i'm approaching that with a love of Asimov and Dick(yeah yeah) and Clark, maybe it's a medium thing. if i hadn't of read the ME comics and books ME would be alot similar.

sure there are heaps of codex entries that attempt to set your feet on the ground but most of it is regarding how humans got to where they are and there's still very little about peoples everyday lives. is humanity a functioning utopia like in the Star Trek universe?

i want to know if Shep has to eat for example. does he need baby food like Robocop? or can his body process normal food like Kusanagi's? can he see in the dark, or infrared like Bato, and if not why not? seems like that would be a simple thing to implement when you're building a supersoldier with unlimited resources?

pardon for the GITS reference again, but one example is the fact that they go to great lengths to explain that although brain augmentation is possible and in fact common place, cyborg limbs and even bodies are also in great use including specialist types for soldiers etc. they still haven't created a reliable way to propel particles, or a safe plasma/laser weapon. so everyone may be running around with robot bits but guns firing bullets utilising gunpowder as a propellant are still the only weapons available. it's a well thought out, logical way of explaining the universe.

in fact until ME2 i didn't think cybernetics were possible in the ME universe at all, then all of a sudden Sheps half robot and no one seems to care.

[JoeLaTurkey]

Ask any LI if they're not working. There's your answer.

[capn233]

All human biotics require implants, which was explained in ME1. They did not go much further into it I don't think. There is mention of genetic modification for all Alliance soldiers, which is really

Cybernetics is really about "regulatory systems" and is an informational specialty; it does not actually mean that something is necessarily roboticized. There are disciplines that are under the umbrella of cybernetics in biology like bioengineering which could be genetic engineering (like modified cloned tissues), nanoengineered tissue augmentation, bionics, etc. Shepard absolutely does not need to be in a GITS type cyborg body... which was really all machine that happened to run a human mind as software. In common parlance it would seem that a "cybernetic enhancement" would be a mechanical or electronic piece that gets implanted, when those are simply one type. If Shepard was predominantly his original body plus cloned tissue, with slight cellular or tissue based augmentation, from genetic modification, or nanoengineered materials, or even designed symbiotic bacteria, he would have had cybernetics applied, even if he did not have a bionic arm or leg or the sort.

I do not know what all "bionic" parts Shepard has. It would seem his eyes are partly that as they are a red version of TIM's if you are hardcore renegade. The "cybernetic upgrades" you can research aren't add on parts exactly... mainly they are interesting bits of nanotechnology and tissue engineering. Lot more advanced than a mechanical arm.

At any rate, outside of augments for each class, it seems like most of the Lazarus project was geared towards reviving Shepard and returning him to his original state. The tech was used when they could not repair his body. I don't know why soldiers don't get infrared eyes... I doubt you would be able to add IR to the visual spectrum and have the brain be able to interpret the extra data. You could maybe have bionic eyes that switch and output IR as a color representation. Maybe they just used off the shelf eye replacements and they don't have that mod. Who knows. They weren't building a T800 afterall, they were just trying to resurrect Shepard.

[Original182]

Well there are some parts of the story I feel Bioware didn't emphasize enough on. One of them is the cybernetics, and another is that most people are indifferent that Shepard is still alive.

The only one who I feel reacted corrected was Ashley.
For everyone else, when Commander Shepard, the hero of the Citadel, first human Spectre, symbol to humanity, tragically declared Killed in Action 2 years ago, suddenly appeared at the Citadel, their reaction is "Oh my bad, the computer said you were dead. Here let me fix it.".

Modifié par Original182, 01 octobre 2011 - 07:14 .

[d1sciple]

capn233 wrote...

All human biotics require implants, which was explained in ME1. They did not go much further into it I don't think. There is mention of genetic modification for all Alliance soldiers, which is really

Cybernetics is really about "regulatory systems" and is an informational specialty; it does not actually mean that something is necessarily roboticized. There are disciplines that are under the umbrella of cybernetics in biology like bioengineering which could be genetic engineering (like modified cloned tissues), nanoengineered tissue augmentation, bionics, etc. Shepard absolutely does not need to be in a GITS type cyborg body... which was really all machine that happened to run a human mind as software. In common parlance it would seem that a "cybernetic enhancement" would be a mechanical or electronic piece that gets implanted, when those are simply one type. If Shepard was predominantly his original body plus cloned tissue, with slight cellular or tissue based augmentation, from genetic modification, or nanoengineered materials, or even designed symbiotic bacteria, he would have had cybernetics applied, even if he did not have a bionic arm or leg or the sort.

I do not know what all "bionic" parts Shepard has. It would seem his eyes are partly that as they are a red version of TIM's if you are hardcore renegade. The "cybernetic upgrades" you can research aren't add on parts exactly... mainly they are interesting bits of nanotechnology and tissue engineering. Lot more advanced than a mechanical arm.

At any rate, outside of augments for each class, it seems like most of the Lazarus project was geared towards reviving Shepard and returning him to his original state. The tech was used when they could not repair his body. I don't know why soldiers don't get infrared eyes... I doubt you would be able to add IR to the visual spectrum and have the brain be able to interpret the extra data. You could maybe have bionic eyes that switch and output IR as a color representation. Maybe they just used off the shelf eye replacements and they don't have that mod. Who knows. They weren't building a T800 afterall, they were just trying to resurrect Shepard.

i like your thinking there, it's logical as hell.
i've got a few similar ideas as to what exactly is going on inside Sheps body etc. i think i'm just dissapointed that we have to guess at it as to me that first scene was too much, just emotionally too much.
after hours and hours of ME1 Shep gets spaced, then they bring him back, no real explanation how and only a shady reason as to why. frustration over that coupled with my love of sci fi tech meant that i focused on the how and whys of Sheps resurection, something that was never clearly answered for me.

[game-zerox]

Original182 wrote...

Well there are some parts of the story I feel Bioware didn't emphasize enough on. One of them is the cybernetics, and another is that most people are indifferent that Shepard is still alive.

The only one who I feel reacted corrected was Ashley.
For everyone else, when Commander Shepard, the hero of the Citadel, first human Spectre, symbol to humanity, tragically declared Killed in Action 2 years ago, suddenly appeared at the Citadel, their reaction is "Oh my bad, the computer said you were dead. Here let me fix it.".

My thinking is that everyone, outside the obvious cast, just assumed that Shepard was doing some secret assignment(s) from the council so they faked his/her death to go undercover or some scenario like that. In any case, they would just assume Shepard death was fake after all. (despite the...look of a renegade Shepard)

Not to say that anyone actually react to the fact that you were dead these last 2 years and wonder what you are doing with cerberus (beside the "you betrayed us!" stuff.) That's just my explanation.

Modifié par game-zerox, 01 octobre 2011 - 11:56 .