240 réponses à ce sujet

[Athayniel]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...


 There is always a chance for any character to be bi/gay as they never specifically said their sexual orientation. 

Actions > words.

Absence of action is not action of... wait... never mind.

Even if what you say is relevant, the only action you can speak to is the ability for a Shepard to proposition an LI that the opposite gender cannot. dudeShep can't proposition Jacob in ME2. Does that mean dudeShep must be heterosexual? I wouldn't say so, neither would Bioware since they've explicitly said that each Shepard is *our* Shepard. It just means dudeShep wasn't given the option of propositioning Jacob. I'm pretty sure at least some players would have if given the choice. Jacob isn't *universally* reviled.

Then there's the converse, dudeShep turns down every single woman who propositions him in game. Does that make him homosexual? I wouldn't say so. He might just be mission-focused and uninterested in romantic entanglements while the fate of the galaxy is so precariously balanced on a knife's edge.

[SilentNukee]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...


 There is always a chance for any character to be bi/gay as they never specifically said their sexual orientation. 

Actions > words.

Not really, because sleeping with someone of the opposite sex doesn't make you automatically straight.

[Stardusk78]

SilentNukee wrote...

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...


 There is always a chance for any character to be bi/gay as they never specifically said their sexual orientation. 

Actions > words.

Not really, because sleeping with someone of the opposite sex doesn't make you automatically straight.

Aren't gay men usually repulsed but women physically? All my gay friends are, in fact just yesterday my gay friend said that ****** diving is the most disgusting thing he can think of. Why would a gay man have sex with a woman?

Modifié par Stardusk78, 30 septembre 2011 - 11:27 .

[SilentNukee]

Stardusk78 wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...


 There is always a chance for any character to be bi/gay as they never specifically said their sexual orientation. 

Actions > words.

Not really, because sleeping with someone of the opposite sex doesn't make you automatically straight.

Are gay men usually repulsed but women physically? All my gay friends are, in fact just yesterday my gay friend said that ****** diving is the most disgusting thing he can think of. Why would a gay man have sex with a woman?

A lot of people try at least once to sleep with the opposite sex then figure out they're not suited for that lifestyle afterwards. Or they just continue on with the hetero lifestyle as they're ashamed of their sexuality because of society or for w/e reason.

[ElitePinecone]

Or there's that little thing called bisexuality.

[arne1234]

you want to put them on the kinsey scale? +Biologic sex scale (We can dismess gender identity because none of the cast are drags)
x asexual
0 Exclusively heterosexual
1 Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
2 Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
3 Bisexual
4 Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
5 Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual
6 Exclusively homosexual

a/ Ashley williams between 2-3 (had bi footage cut +1 for being a tomboy at times -1 because there is a dreaming girl under all of that) will not date outside her species probably straight
b/ Kaiden alenko between 2-3 (had bi footage cut)
c/ Liara tsoni 3 openly bi, will date outside her race but could reproduce so bi for the observer straight for the character
d/ Miranda Lawson 0-2 never comes over bi and want's a normal life
e/ Jack 2-3 prefers men but will sleep with anything
f/ Tali 2-3 prefers men but is willing to date outside her species her intrests in Shepard are the same for mshep fshep so who knows
g/ Jacob 1-? has very little to say appears straight
i/Garrus 2-3 prefers women but is willing to date outside his species his intrests in Shepard are the same for mshep fshep so who knows
j/ Thane krios 2-3 prefers women but is willing to date outside his species his intrests in Shepard are the same for mshep fshep so who knows

Modifié par arne1234, 30 septembre 2011 - 11:44 .

[arne1234]

double post

Modifié par arne1234, 30 septembre 2011 - 11:43 .

[SandTrout]

Athayniel wrote...

True, but our point of view as the audience is irrelevant from the perspective of story continuity. As long as each individual playthrough is internally consistant it does not matter that in dudeShep's playthrough he romanced a straight Miranda, while in femShep's playthrough she romanced a bisexual Miranda..

Wrong. Audience point of view is all that matters from the perspective of story continuity. If they decide that Miranda is now bisexual, when she wasn't in ME2, then it is a retcon of her sexual orientation.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

You are asking me to prove a negative, which is not reasonable.

[SandTrout]

I am intentionally avoiding the Kinsey Scale because I am guessing at the likelihood of each character being a same-sex love interest in ME3, which is largely binary. Since the majority of characters have already been shown to be open to heterosexual relationships, that places them as at least bisexual.

[Athayniel]

SandTrout wrote...

Athayniel wrote...

True, but our point of view as the audience is irrelevant from the perspective of story continuity. As long as each individual playthrough is internally consistant it does not matter that in dudeShep's playthrough he romanced a straight Miranda, while in femShep's playthrough she romanced a bisexual Miranda..

Wrong. Audience point of view is all that matters from the perspective of story continuity. If they decide that Miranda is now bisexual, when she wasn't in ME2, then it is a retcon of her sexual orientation.

If that were true my choice to not romance Jack when others do is a story discontinuity. A game which presents *any* choices to the players guarantees external contradictions. The *only* thing that matters is internal contradiction which *would not* occur with any LI being made available to the same sex which presently are not an option.

What a player knows from a meta-perspective is not relevant to the story continuity of any single playthrough. The fact that it is possible to keep the collector base is irrelevant to the story continuity of a Shepard who destroyed it.

SandTrout wrote...

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

You are asking me to prove a negative, which is not reasonable.

Stop trying to assert things which you can't prove then.

Modifié par Athayniel, 30 septembre 2011 - 12:18 .

[DJRackham]

SandTrout wrote...

CptData wrote...

Actually, you're missing one single idea in your analysis.

Every new Shepard (either fresh or imported) means another alternative universe. So in one universe Ashley isn't homosexual because she fells in love with M!Shep, in another she could be lesbian because she has a thing for F!Shep.

Um, no. The characters have been written they way that they have, and there isn't anything that you can do as FemShep in ME1 to hook up with Ash or to hook up with Kaiden as a Manshep.

Not exactly true. It is possible to have Ash and femshep hook up. I have one ME play through (which was then imported into ME2) where Ash and femshep are an item. The dialog is all there in both games. It only takes one console command to make it happen.

Modifié par DJRackham, 30 septembre 2011 - 12:23 .

[Stardusk78]

SilentNukee wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...


 There is always a chance for any character to be bi/gay as they never specifically said their sexual orientation. 

Actions > words.

Not really, because sleeping with someone of the opposite sex doesn't make you automatically straight.

Are gay men usually repulsed but women physically? All my gay friends are, in fact just yesterday my gay friend said that ****** diving is the most disgusting thing he can think of. Why would a gay man have sex with a woman?

A lot of people try at least once to sleep with the opposite sex then figure out they're not suited for that lifestyle afterwards. Or they just continue on with the hetero lifestyle as they're ashamed of their sexuality because of society or for w/e reason.

They try to sleep with someone they are physically repulsed by? Makes no sense...

[AlexMBrennan]

For one, he shows no interest whatsoever in the opposite gender.

Given that he shows no interest in his own sex either one could assume that he's just not interested in sex rather than concluding that he must be gay.

Secondly, whenever he talks about going out to bars and nightclubs, he exclusively talks about going out with a group of guys.

Again, one could assume that that's because he's a mercenary - most of his colleagues are guys (in game, only heavies are female; cf real life military) as well.

Miranda

Yes, she wants to have kids (which doesn't necessarily mean that she's sexually attracted to men). Yes, the SB dossiers show that she tried to arrange dates with (presumably - we only know their iPartner nick names...) men; based on her extensive screening I'd have thought that the purpose of that was to get pregnant...

[scampermax]

Nyoka wrote...
Thane: He's a frog. Frogs change sex all the time. He's probably a hetero man today, but by ME3, he will be a lesbian.

I will make a femshep just for uh, her if that happens in ME3.

Modifié par scampermax, 30 septembre 2011 - 12:43 .

[kumquats]

Stardusk78 wrote...

They try to sleep with someone they are physically repulsed by? Makes no sense...

It makes sence if you listen to a lot of different people.
So yes, it's not uncommon for husbands and fathers to have their coming out when they are 50.

I think the reason is, people just accept social standarts, without trying to figure out what could be the best way of life for me.

[SilentNukee]

kumquats wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

They try to sleep with someone they are physically repulsed by? Makes no sense...

It makes sence if you listen to a lot of different people.
So yes, it's not uncommon for husbands and fathers to have their coming out when they are 50.

I think the reason is, people just accept social standarts, without trying to figure out what could be the best way of life for me.

^ This.

Plus the fact that most homosexuals aren't entirely repulsed by the opposite sex. They just much prefer the same-sex. There are very few who are the way you are describing your friend.

[ladyvader]

These types of threads make my head hurt.

I know many people that didn't come out or even know themselves until they were past 30 they were gay. I know some that have never been with the opposite sex because they knew at a younger age.

And some fall somewhere in between.

Why feel the need to create a new thread about it? There is already a s/s thread that you should have posted on. Don't be surprised if this one gets locked.

[Coreysaurus]

I just like wheelin'.

[Kaiser Shepard]

I love the lengths the gays and bis of BSN go to justify retconning established characters, just so they can have their shallow romances and "sex scene" with character X or Y. I'm equally disturbed by how everyone who has a vested interest in a character not being hetero, seems to assume that everybody is bisexual by default.

I can only hope they don't apply that same warped train of thought to real life as well...

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 30 septembre 2011 - 01:10 .

[Stardusk78]

SilentNukee wrote...

kumquats wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

They try to sleep with someone they are physically repulsed by? Makes no sense...

It makes sence if you listen to a lot of different people.
So yes, it's not uncommon for husbands and fathers to have their coming out when they are 50.

I think the reason is, people just accept social standarts, without trying to figure out what could be the best way of life for me.

^ This.

Plus the fact that most homosexuals aren't entirely repulsed by the opposite sex. They just much prefer the same-sex. There are very few who are the way you are describing your friend.

I beg to differ. Ever ask gay men what they think of those saggy bags of fat called breasts? or the moist hole right above the anus? Most feel the way I described it.

[ladyvader]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I love the lengths the gays and bis of BSN go to justify retconning established characters, just so they can have their shallow romances and "sex scene" with character X or Y. I'm equally disturbed by how everyone who has a vested interest in a character not being hetero, seems to assume that everybody is bisexual by default.

I can only hope they don't apply that same warped train of thought to real life as well...

Please name one character in game that ever once talked about their sexuality.  I must have missed it if they did.  It's not retconning if its never mentioned.  At that point you are just assuming and break down assume.  Ass u me.    That term is thrown around way too much is most of the time it's nonsense.

[Mims]

These sort of arguments are kind of pointless. At the end of the day, characters aren't real people. We can hope that they will be impacted by 'real world things' as apart of them being well-rounded, realistic characters. But they don't make their own decisions. Their writers are the only ones who know the whole picture, and are the only people who will decide which characters are open to both sexes.

Modifié par Mims, 30 septembre 2011 - 01:14 .

[Xilizhra]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I love the lengths the gays and bis of BSN go to justify retconning established characters, just so they can have their shallow romances and "sex scene" with character X or Y. I'm equally disturbed by how everyone who has a vested interest in a character not being hetero, seems to assume that everybody is bisexual by default.

I can only hope they don't apply that same warped train of thought to real life as well...

I was going to be upset for a moment, but then realized how impotent your fear is. Your reasoning is twisted, but also irrelevant.

[Athayniel]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I love the lengths the gays and bis of BSN go to justify retconning established characters, just so they can have their shallow romances and "sex scene" with character X or Y. I'm equally disturbed by how everyone who has a vested interest in a character not being hetero, seems to assume that everybody is bisexual by default.

I can only hope they don't apply that same warped train of thought to real life as well...

They're not assuming bisexuality. They're not assuming *anything*. That's the point. We don't know their sexuality unless they confirm what it is.

And yeah, I don't make assumptions about people's sexualities in real life either. Neither should you.