474 réponses à ce sujet

[seraphymon]

DarkSun522 wrote...

If anything DA II has only improved BioWare's reputation.

DA2 was them shooting themselves in the foot. and their foot represents their reputation.

[DarkSun522]

seraphymon wrote...

DarkSun522 wrote...

If anything DA II has only improved BioWare's reputation.

DA2 was them shooting themselves in the foot. and their foot represents their reputation.

NOPE. DA II > Origins:D

[DarkSun522]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

DarkSun522 wrote...

If anything DA II has only improved BioWare's reputation.

I don't know... that's a pretty big If.

No, not really.

[Jalek]

DA2 is to Dragon Age what World of Warcraft is to Warcraft 3.
The play is very MMORPG, and wanting to charge money to be able to respec is also very MMO'ish.

I didn't learn my lesson from buying multiple copies of DA:O and wait a full year to buy the game. Then the DLC gets incorporated into a "deluxe" or "ultimate" edition, so instead of paying $50 for the DLC, I'll just play the base game and decide if it's worth buying again for less to replay.

[seraphymon]

DarkSun522 wrote...

seraphymon wrote...

DarkSun522 wrote...

If anything DA II has only improved BioWare's reputation.

DA2 was them shooting themselves in the foot. and their foot represents their reputation.

NOPE. DA II > Origins:D

NOPE. DAO> DA2

[dragonfire100]

Guys who are fighting insulting and claiming facts if you dont stop ill report you all not a treat a warning.

[ScotGaymer]

I agree with dragonfire.

@seraphymon.

Doing the "yes!" "no!" thing with someone is incredibly childish, and it is trollish behaviour in violation of the ToS. And as the mods are keeping an eye on this thread that is something you want to avoid.

This is a topic worth discussing, and there is no reason it cant be discussed in a civil manner.

Getting really sick of seeing all legitimate discussion in the DA2 forums being derailed into arguements and flame wars by DA2-Haters, trolls, and DA2-Counter-Haters.

[JerHopp]

PresidentCowboy wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Getting really sick of seeing all legitimate discussion in the DA2 forums being derailed into arguements and flame wars by DA2-Haters, trolls, and DA2-Counter-Haters.

I got sick of it like seven months ago... I stuck around cause I didn't expect the bitter whiners to be constantly checking the forums of a game they don't like, months later... guess I was wrong Oh also I like DLC news:wizard:

DLC news, Comic news, Anime news... I like it all!!!

[Stanley Woo]

Some childish bickering removed.

[Vnnk]

I enjoy the series but i do think DA2 was a let down and alot of pepole agree with me. I mean look at any DA forum section they are quite dead. I Could be wrong but i remember about this time after origins there was alot more activity.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I just want a hug....

Modifié par Reno_Tarshil, 18 octobre 2011 - 05:28 .

[Uccio]

ElitePinecone wrote...

This is the important bit, I think - apparently DA2 was a commercial success even with its reduced sales. When you stack up DAO's much longer development time and the fact that many of its 4.5 million+ sales probably weren't at full RRP (including discounts, bundles, etc), DA2's ~1.5-2 million sales might not have been a failure at all. 

Clearly no studio wants a situation where its sales go down, and I don't think anybody expected DA2 to sell less than 2 million copies (given that the initial outside estimates were well over two million, some as high as four million).

But as long as it's cranking along at a profit, it's a success to the investors.

The fan reaction might be something else, though - even from a business standpoint it usually makes sense not to ****** off your customers - and if it leads to significantly reduced preorders for any future titles, I think we might see the legacy of DAII extending beyond its sales figures. 

It's a fair opinion to say that DAII might not have achieved everything Bioware were aiming for critically (and certainly not with the reaction from much of the fanbase) - but I wouldn't be throwing around wild hyperbole about its commercial success or failure without having access to Bioware's internal zots. Given that this will never happen, we just have to take it as given that DAII did make money, or at least enough of it to satisfy whatever mystical benchmark somebody was setting. 

Of course, commercial success isn't everything and I'd be the first to say DA2 didn't have the oomph, gravitas or depth of its predecessor - but it was entertaining enough, had some interesting characters and was a fair effort at doing something different. I wish more time had been taken, but it's a bit pointless to indulge in hindsight. All we can do is hope that whatever happens in the future is better. 

I think one of the key factors besides the sales and margin issues is that even DA2 could be comparable to DAO when it comes to true profits there is a question of the customer base. In the case of even profits one has to think about how many copies are being sold to achieve this. If company looses its larger core customers and replaces them with smaller new one it is quite possible that this trend can cause diminishing profits in the future in term of smaller sales.

[Tsuga C]

ElitePinecone wrote...

When you stack up DAO's much longer development time...*snip*

If they'd offered us a DA:O 2 that polished off some of the rough edges instead of DA2, the development time of the second installment likely would've been about the same or marginally longer and we'd have had a superior product rather than the wholly inadequate mess that was DA2.    Recent YouTube videos indicate that Misters Gaider and Laidlaw may have taken heed of the displeasure of their core fanbase.  *crosses fingers*  We can only hope...

[ElitePinecone]

Tsuga C wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

When you stack up DAO's much longer development time...*snip*

If they'd offered us a DA:O 2 that polished off some of the rough edges instead of DA2, the development time of the second installment likely would've been about the same or marginally longer and we'd have had a superior product rather than the wholly inadequate mess that was DA2.    Recent YouTube videos indicate that Misters Gaider and Laidlaw may have taken heed of the displeasure of their core fanbase.  *crosses fingers*  We can only hope...

As in, kept the DAO engine? That may have saved some development time, true. 

I'm not sure if this is an accurate assumption, but a lot of the criticism I've seen for DA2 hasn't necessarily been directed towards its gameplay changes per se (although a not-insignificant amount was), but more towards the arguable disparity in quality (the depth of content as well as its breadth) between DA2 and its predecessor. Perhaps sticking with the original engine would've allowed incremental (and well-guided) innovation to gameplay while, importantly, offering enough development time to make enough new and interesting content. 

In any case, it's a bit of a redundant argument - there's not much point in saying it would've been better to incrementally improve Origins, in hindsight. I'm sure a lot of developers would love to change their games' development after the fact, but until someone invents a time machine we just have to hope the next iteration learns from this one, 

Perhaps with the engine and technology of DA2, and enough resources and time, DA3 has the potential to be much improved. I'd like to hope so. 

[Everwarden]

DarkSun522 wrote...

No, not really.

Which is why the scores were lower and the majority of fans were either 'meh' or outright hostile towards the game?

[ScotGaymer]

Everwarden wrote...


Which is why the scores were lower and the majority of fans were either 'meh' or outright hostile towards the game?

No he is actually right.

The reviews were mostly positive, the overall MetaScore is sitting in the high 70s/low 80s I think, and the fan split (if BSN polling is anything to go by) is about 50/50.

The problem is the haters are very vocal minority who are being countered by another very vocal minority of defenders; which results in the appearance that EVERYONE hated the game because they destroy all legitimate discussion on the boards. Even all these months after the games release.

[seraphymon]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Everwarden wrote...


Which is why the scores were lower and the majority of fans were either 'meh' or outright hostile towards the game?

No he is actually right.

The reviews were mostly positive, the overall MetaScore is sitting in the high 70s/low 80s I think, and the fan split (if BSN polling is anything to go by) is about 50/50.

The problem is the haters are very vocal minority who are being countered by another very vocal minority of defenders; which results in the appearance that EVERYONE hated the game because they destroy all legitimate discussion on the boards. Even all these months after the games release.

haters, defenders, and how vocal aside. I would agree that on the BSN the fans are split at best for DA2. Unfortunately the way i see it everywhere else, it is nowhere near as succesful. I dont  believe or buy anythng what pro critics or pro game reviewers say. because its all bull one way or the other. DA2 is such a prime example of how ludicrous it is compared with fans in terms of the core game vs the DLC for it. It all about the user and actually fans, and actual customers in my eyes. So a 4and half from meta i find as more truer.  And everywhere else, Dragon age 2 is the butt of every joke whenever that game is brought up. Or gets low scores.

So id have to disagree basically and say that i find most the true review mostly negative. This isnt a troll or anything, its just the way i see it based on everything.

[eroeru]

@FitScotGaymer
Judging by the forums, most Bioware fans were displeased in one way or another. (or just "meh" about it)

Modifié par eroeru, 19 octobre 2011 - 11:18 .

[Phaedros]

The quote in the thread title means they thought they could get away with it.

They knew *exactly* what they were doing.

When Brent Knowles left (in protest at the direction DA2 was being forced to take) the writing was on the wall..

[Wulfram]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

The reviews were mostly positive, the overall MetaScore is sitting in the high 70s/low 80s I think, and the fan split (if BSN polling is anything to go by) is about 50/50.

By the standards of Bioware full games, the reviews were distinctly poor.

[Tsuga C]

ElitePinecone wrote...

As in, kept the DAO engine? That may have saved some development time, true.

*snip*

 Perhaps sticking with the original engine would've allowed incremental (and well-guided) innovation to gameplay while, importantly, offering enough development time to make enough new and interesting content. 

This is the jist of my previous post.  For most of the core fanbase (grognards and semi-grognards), this was the desired path.  Sadly, EAWare chose otherwise. 

[John Epler]

Everwarden wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Ugh, can somebody ban this Versago guy.

It's beyond a joke. 

Seriously. Not even remotely amusing. 

Ridiculous. Childish. 

It's part of Bioware's double-standard. If a Dragon Age II detractor was saying the same things, they would have been banned weeks ago. Trolling is a-ok for a blind fan, though. 

Can you guess how many reports I've gotten about Versago this go around? I'll give you a hint - it's somewhere between zero and none.

Seriously. If you want to complain about the moderation being biased, then at the very least -tell- us about disruptive individuals. We are not omniscient.