474 réponses à ce sujet

[Sowtaaw]

Whats the new audience bioware wants so bad? Cod fans? Soccer moms? or is just pr bull**** when things dont go as a planned?

[Uccio]

JerHopp wrote...

Could someone please explain to me the following:

I don't understand the concept of 'new fans'. I assume this would mean the people who bought DA2 and loved it and want more (like in 'looking forward to DA3). But how does Bioware know that the 'new fans' would actually buy DA3? You can only say 'they' are the new fans when DA3 comes out and 'they' have bought DA3 (they bought 2, stuck around and also bought 3). Right? And whose to say that they will actually buy DA3? Maybe it was just a one time buy...

I am sorry but it's just the concept of new fans that I don't understand.. How can you speak of a new fanbase when DA3 isn't out yet?

I hope I make sense... It's just a thought that comes to mind everytime I read something about 'new fans' (and even old fans, but that's something I can understand)..

Good point. Did B conduct a poll among game buyers, "Is this your first DA purchase? Would you call yourself a fan of this new style?".

[Everwarden]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...
The new audience? What new audience? Your sales plumeted when DA2 released. There is no new audience, only pissed off DAO fans and DAO fans who also loved DA2.

I think Bioware has been sampling hallucinagenic mushrooms, because they keep talking about this giant mass of invisible people who joined their audience. 

If they have a large new audience, why didn't DA2 outsell Origins? Oh, wait.. because it sucked.

CDPR, don't ever change, don't ever turn into another one of these soulless money grubbing corporations.

I hate to sound like a conservative, because I'm not, but every business is there to make money. The difference is that CDProjekt thinks that the best way to make money is selling quality products, and new Bioware thinks that it's cutting massive corners and pretending that it's 'innovation'.

[Ostagar2011]

Filament wrote...

I don't think there's any established formula used to calculate 'fanhood' or the amount of 'fans' a company/franchise has. They probably just counted the number of people who have DA2 registered but not DAO and went with that.

They might be going on DLC downloads. You'd only download Legacy if you were a fan.

But BioWare 'off guard' by reaction? So 'off guard' that they took the lead designer, and not only kept him on, but promoted him...

[Zanallen]

Filament wrote...

I don't think there's any established formula used to calculate 'fanhood' or the amount of 'fans' a company/franchise has. They probably just counted the number of people who have DA2 registered but not DAO and went with that.

This. I assume that new fans are people who registered DA2 or started new accounts with DA2 without having DAO registered. They can be quite happy with the number of new fans despite sales being lower than DAO's. Especially when you consider budget differences between the two games.

[Everwarden]

Zanallen wrote...
 Especially when you consider budget differences between the two games.

Dragon Age 2 was cheaper to make, but also sold a very, very large portion of its sales entirely off of the popularity of DAO. 

[Kaizerzero2]

Ostagar2011 wrote...

Filament wrote...

I don't think there's any established formula used to calculate 'fanhood' or the amount of 'fans' a company/franchise has. They probably just counted the number of people who have DA2 registered but not DAO and went with that.

They might be going on DLC downloads. You'd only download Legacy if you were a fan.

But BioWare 'off guard' by reaction? So 'off guard' that they took the lead designer, and not only kept him on, but promoted him...

Game was made 'on the cheap' so profit must have been good enough to give him that promotion.

[Ostagar2011]

DA2 did not cost less if you write off the 'goodwill' lost to the project's profit & loss account. As of 1 March 2011, the Dragon Age IP was worth xx million dollars. As of 31 March 2011 it was worth 50% of xx million $. Fortunately accounting standards don't require EA to present (calculate) that, so this sort of number won't actually be seen anywhere. Which doesn't mean it not real - that cost is there, for sure. It will be seen in real $'s through DA3 sales, maybe even a bit in ME3 sales.

[UrkOfGreyhawk]

Kaizerzero2 wrote...

Ostagar2011 wrote...

Filament wrote...

I don't think there's any established formula used to calculate 'fanhood' or the amount of 'fans' a company/franchise has. They probably just counted the number of people who have DA2 registered but not DAO and went with that.

They might be going on DLC downloads. You'd only download Legacy if you were a fan.

But BioWare 'off guard' by reaction? So 'off guard' that they took the lead designer, and not only kept him on, but promoted him...

Game was made 'on the cheap' so profit must have been good enough to give him that promotion.

That's one possibility. Another possibility is that his lords and masters at EA didn't give a crap about the game or it's performance. It's entirely possible that the main reason he was promoted was that he convinced the fat cats at corporate that he was going to "play ball" and help turn the corpse of Bioware into a standard issue EA crap factory.

JerHopp wrote...

Could someone please explain to me the following:

I don't understand the concept of 'new fans'. I assume this would mean the people who bought DA2 and loved it and want more (like in 'looking forward to DA3). But how does Bioware know that the 'new fans' would actually buy DA3? You can only say 'they' are the new fans when DA3 comes out and 'they' have bought DA3 (they bought  2, stuck around and also bought 3). Right? And whose to say that they  will actually buy DA3? Maybe it was just a one time buy...

No. Most DAL buyers were DAO players. Some loved it, some hated it. Seems like almost an even split. The new fans that these guys are talking about don't actually exist.

That's pretty much what my blog post is about. What EA won't seem to accept is that this huge new RPG fanbase they're trying to capture doesn't exist. It's a figment of their greedy little imaginations.

They honestly think they can get the madden crowd to play RPGs if they just dumb it down enough. it's ridiculous.

The RPG market is already pretty well developed and established, and they just basically kicked us in the balls.

Modifié par UrkOfGreyhawk, 30 septembre 2011 - 07:58 .

[Mike_Neel]

Eventually RPG devs will realize they can't get that huge pile of disposable income that is the FPS market and they'll go back to pleasing their core fans.

Now if they'd just stop blaming all their poor returns on pirates and poor user scores on internet trolls. I get not coming out and outright saying "We made a bad/poor product." because no one who produces anything for the consumer market will say so. But to say the reason the game isn't selling as well as you want it to is because everyone must be pirating it sounds kind of ridiculous. Though a lot of devs are using used game sales as the new scape goat over piracy.

[LeBurns]

UrkOfGreyhawk wrote...

They honestly think they can get the madden crowd to play RPGs if they just dumb it down enough. it's ridiculous.

The RPG market is already pretty well developed and established, and they just basically kicked us in the balls.

Maybe if they just give Hawke a Hockey stick and Isabella a soccer ball, let them kill the waves of mods with those, they will win over the EA gamers.

[Nerdage]

UrkOfGreyhawk wrote...

That's one possibility. Another possibility is that his lords and masters at EA didn't give a crap about the game or it's performance. It's entirely possible that the main reason he was promoted was that he convinced the fat cats at corporate that he was going to "play ball" and help turn the corpse of Bioware into a standard issue EA crap factory.

Or maybe he was best qualified, being both lead writer and lead designer in his time.

Jeez.

It was development as a whole that suffered in DA2, not design specifically, why that should preclude the lead designer being moved to creative director I don't know.

JerHopp wrote...

Could someone please explain to me the following:

I don't understand the concept of 'new fans'. I assume this would mean the people who bought DA2 and loved it and want more (like in 'looking forward to DA3). But how does Bioware know that the 'new fans' would actually buy DA3? You can only say 'they' are the new fans when DA3 comes out and 'they' have bought DA3 (they bought  2, stuck around and also bought 3). Right? And whose to say that they  will actually buy DA3? Maybe it was just a one time buy...

I am sorry but it's just the concept of new fans that I don't understand.. How can you speak of a new fanbase when DA3 isn't out yet?

I hope I make sense... It's just a thought that comes to mind everytime I read something about 'new fans' (and even old fans, but that's  something I can understand)..

That's pretty much what my blog post is about. What EA won't seem to accept is that this huge new RPG fanbase they're trying to capture doesn't exist. It's a figment of their greedy little imaginations.

They honestly think they can get the madden crowd to play RPGs if they just dumb it down enough. it's ridiculous.

The RPG market is already pretty well developed and established, and they just basically kicked us in the balls.

All non-RPG gamers want is a fun game, make a good, fun game and a lot of people will play it anyway, unless your argument is that RPGs inherently can't be fun to play I don't see what you're basing this on..

The whole point of that "becoming less relevant" thing was that RPG says nothing about gameplay, it's all about character and story, which are almost ubiquitous in games anyway, just not to the same degree, which makes this potential new RPG market every gamer who enjoys story. So unless you think everyone who enjoys story is already playing RPGs, then again I'm not following you.

[UrkOfGreyhawk]

All non-RPG gamers want is a fun game, make a good, fun game and a lot of people will play it anyway, unless your argument is that RPGs inherently can't be fun to play I don't see what you're basing this on..

The whole point of that "becoming less relevant" thing was that RPG says nothing about gameplay, it's all about character and story, which are almost ubiquitous in games anyway, just not to the same degree, which makes this potential new RPG market every gamer who enjoys story. So unless you think everyone who enjoys story is already playing RPGs, then again I'm not following you.

Don't put words in my mouth, Nerdage. Words like "Good" and "Fun" are subjective. A lot of people LOVE the crap EA puts out, but I don't find it fun at all. Likewise I love spending hours at a time playing Sim City, a game that most madden fans find boring beyond the pale. What I'm saying is that pretty much everyone who enjoys playing RPGs is already playing RPGs. Story has nothing to do with it. Almost everyone likes stories. That's why they're so "ubiquitous" (I hope you don't really talk that way) in video gaming. But a lot of people, I'd even  venture to say most people, who enjoy stories don't neccesarily like RPGs.

What EA has done is taken a product that I think everyone here will agree was "fun" and split us down the middle so that half of us will still buy it, and the other half wouldn't wipe our bottoms with it. Their logic for doing this was that more people would play the game if they dumbed it down for the console tards and threw us RPG snobs overboard.

I may be right or wrong about the "why" of it, but the fact is it didn't work.

Modifié par UrkOfGreyhawk, 30 septembre 2011 - 09:18 .

[AlexXIV]

I find it incredibly silly to try to approach a new player base in the middle of a series. If they wanted to do that they should have thought about it before DA:O. Logically, after DA:O the fans expected DA:O 2. What personally upsets me is not that they tried something new, but how it was executed. Which means basically rushed development, for whatever reason. There is no controversy or polarisation about this issue. Everyone who played DA2 realized at some point that it was a rush job.

[GodWood]

Bioware: Dragon Age 2 fan reaction 'caught us off guard'

Then you're fools.

[Brockololly]

alex90c wrote...

Great_Horn wrote...
Have a look:

http://www.computera...t-us-off-guard/

durrr they wunt more origins

ffs

Yeah, again, its the same damn excuse being trotted out- that anyone that didn't like DA2 didn't like it because they wanted a copy of Origins. Now there may be truth in that people wanted a sequel to iterate and evolve off of the foundation laid by Origins, but  you rarely ever see Muzyka or Zeschuk say anything about how maybe people didn't like DA2 because it was astoundingly mediocre completely on its own merits? 

Atakuma wrote...

These statements were made nearly two
months ago and there was a thread discussing them. Please just let that
poor horse rest in piece.

No, if you look at the date, the article was posted today and claims it was from a new interview. Its just BioWare trotting out the exact same PR lines over and over and over and over and over again.


As for DA2 and the "polarising" reaction taking them off guard, well, quite frankly, if they couldn't see this coming from a mile away then they're totally aloof and ignorant about the fanbase they established with Origins. They're clueless. I mean, they didn't see how rushing out a sequel which has little in common with the original might be a bit divisive? With an RPG with the more traditional CRPG lineage Origins had? Seriously?

[tmp7704]

Dragon Age 2 was incredibly polarising and it caught us off-guard, honestly.

Honestly, why lie :|

Modifié par tmp7704, 30 septembre 2011 - 10:15 .

[Morty Smith]

Okay ...

hatemodeON

Fan feedback, crap banquet. Gushing leghumpers on one side, hating lunatics on the other and a developer that aims for quality is pleased with a lack there of. You´ve earned another and should get along much better.

hatemodeOFF

[Morroian]

Great another go round  of lets criticise Bioware for public statements even though there's nothing actually in the interview to get annoyed by. 

Monica83 wrote...

The funny thing is that didin't realize they can't statisfate both community ..

Its just simple there are people the DAO fanbase that loves old School RPG and the new crew that likes more action rpg...

The reaction to Legacy from a significant number of people who disliked DA2 suggests otherwise.

Monica83 wrote...

isn't possible make rpg for people that don't like rpg.. Of course you can have a middle way but the result will be always low or mediocre..

Yeah just like it was impossible to make paraphrasing work, oh wait there's The Witcher 2 now all of a sudden its fine.

Modifié par Morroian, 30 septembre 2011 - 10:33 .

[Morroian]

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, again, its the same damn excuse being trotted out- that anyone that didn't like DA2 didn't like it because they wanted a copy of Origins. Now there may be truth in that people wanted a sequel to iterate and evolve off of the foundation laid by Origins, but  you rarely ever see Muzyka or Zeschuk say anything about how maybe people didn't like DA2 because it was astoundingly mediocre completely on its own merits? 

If you expect Muzyka and Zeshcuk to ever say something along those lines I've got a bridge to sell you.

[Morty Smith]

Morroian wrote...

Great another go round  of lets criticise Bioware for public statements even though there's nothing actually in the interview to get annoyed by. 

Monica83 wrote...

The funny thing is that didin't realize they can't statisfate both community ..

Its just simple there are people the DAO fanbase that loves old School RPG and the new crew that likes more action rpg...

The reaction to Legacy from a significant number of people who disliked DA2 suggests otherwise.

Do you actually have any numbers?

Monica83 wrote...

isn't possible make rpg for people that don't like rpg.. Of course you can have a middle way but the result will be always low or mediocre..

Yeah just like it was impossible to make paraphrasing work, oh wait there's The Witcher 2 now all of a sudden its fine.

What is your point?

Modifié par Kroitz, 30 septembre 2011 - 10:40 .

[tmp7704]

Morroian wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

but  you rarely ever see Muzyka or Zeschuk say anything about how maybe people didn't like DA2 because it was astoundingly mediocre completely on its own merits? 

If you expect Muzyka and Zeshcuk to ever say something along those lines I've got a bridge to sell you.

Why not, there was certainly no problem at the office with public complaining how bad game DAO when DA2 was about to get shipped, and how the new game was going to be so much better.

Maybe we just have to wait for DA3 to get closer to its release date to hear the same take on the sequel.

[Uccio]

Morroian wrote...

The reaction to Legacy from a significant number of people who disliked DA2 suggests otherwise.

I disliked DA2 because it is so mediocre game, but I also didn´t like Legacy because it was way too boring and didn´t add anything to the game.

Modifié par Ukki, 30 septembre 2011 - 10:49 .