162 réponses à ce sujet

[FoxHound109]

I'm not really sure why everyone has such an issue with the idea of all characters being bisexual coming off as unrealistic. There is quite a possibility that bisexuality is the ONLY real sexuality and that exclusive ****** and heterosexuality are social constructs. Bisexuality is probably the order of the day in the animal kingdom. You could even take this further and argue that most organisms are sexual opportunists.

[Valdrane78]

General User wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

The only pro is that it creates a little more diversity in game.  There are no cons.  Any and all other pro's and cons are purely player preferance.

fixed.

Wrong, it does create diversity in game.  Which also gives it a greater depth.

I'm not agrueing that it doesn't create more diversity, only that weather that is a pro or con is based purely on a player's preference.

Anything that helps to mimic the real world in an RPG is a pro.  Having same sex relationships mimics that reality.

Having every person you live and/or work with be bisexual does not mimic reality either. 

So what are we to make of that?  If having no s/s relationships or homosexuals around is ridiculous, and having everyone around you be bi is also ridiculous, then the solution is obvious:  have some characters be gay, others bi, and others heterosexual.  It then becomes a matter of deciding which characters could or should belong in which catagory.

I think Kaidan and Jack should be made into s/s options, and the rest left as they are.  What do you think?

What I think doesn't matter and I personally am happy with the way it is now.  But having atleast a few s/s relationships in the game is a pro.

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

Bioware is already having issues with consistency, in all areas. so lets just compound it and add even more inconsistencies. heck I might as well be playing SIMS.

So it's about consistiency now and "dating sim" argument? And then you wonder why I was never much buying your 'it's all about the best continued o/s romance, I swear, nothing more!".

[alex90c]

Nashiktal wrote...

Alright since I see the Dating Sim comparison a lot, and as a dating sim fan I feel a little annoyed by the misconception. So here is an example of a dating sim.

True Love Edit: I need to create a more reliable link.
http://imageshack.us...51603super.jpg/

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Maid Story



The second one is technically a management game, but you can grow your relationship with them as you manage the maids training.

what is this i don't even

[Valdrane78]

FoxHound109 wrote...

I'm not really sure why everyone has such an issue with the idea of all characters being bisexual coming off as unrealistic. There is quite a possibility that bisexuality is the ONLY real sexuality and that exclusive ****** and heterosexuality are social constructs. Bisexuality is probably the order of the day in the animal kingdom. You could even take this further and argue that most organisms are sexual opportunists.

While there are A LOT more bi and gay people on this planet than most peopel think.  The odds of everyone on your team or ship being bi is frankly absurd.

And I disagree that bisexuality is the only real sexuality.  I am not attracted to any man, nore do I have any notions of being with a man.  It has nothing to do with the current social climate, I wouldn't be into men even if being bisexual or gay was the "norm".

[jlb524]

jeweledleah wrote...
thank you BSN for teaching me that despite being a staunch supporter of gay rights, gay marriage etc in real life, I am in fact a homophobe becasue I would rather bioware didn't "expand" characters who already showed preferences for specific gender Shepard. and no, its not the same as Garrus - who was not an LI in a first place, so you really had no idea whom he preferred and how (Tali was... lets just say I very much hate how her romance was implemented). this would be like making, say, Joker into LI - who wasn't LI in a first place, but who's obviously close to either gender Shepard. AND he's alive in every single game.

I'm not aware of Ashley's sexual preference in my game.

Again, this argument is meta.

Valdrane78 wrote...

While there are A LOT more bi and gay people on this planet than most peopel think.  The odds of everyone on your team or ship being bi is frankly absurd. 

Just like the odds that pretty much every female Shepard has ever met wants to jump in his pants no matter how ugly or douchy he is...oh, wait.

Modifié par jlb524, 30 septembre 2011 - 07:20 .

[SandTrout]

FoxHound109 wrote...

I'm not really sure why everyone has such an issue with the idea of all characters being bisexual coming off as unrealistic. There is quite a possibility that bisexuality is the ONLY real sexuality and that exclusive ****** and heterosexuality are social constructs. Bisexuality is probably the order of the day in the animal kingdom. You could even take this further and argue that most organisms are sexual opportunists.

Interesting theory, but little to back it up. Social constructs or not, a recent UCLA suddy found that <4% self-identified as homosexual or bisexual. Significant portions, but not nearly majorities (8-11%) claimed to have had either same-sex encounters in the past or having some sexual attraction to the same sex.

[Nashiktal]

alex90c wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Alright since I see the Dating Sim comparison a lot, and as a dating sim fan I feel a little annoyed by the misconception. So here is an example of a dating sim.

True Love Edit: I need to create a more reliable link.
http://imageshack.us...51603super.jpg/

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Maid Story



The second one is technically a management game, but you can grow your relationship with them as you manage the maids training.

what is this i don't even

A game with more character stats than ME.

[Siansonea]

Anti-same-sex Whack-A-Mole today. Must be the phase of the moon or something.

[SandTrout]

jlb524 wrote...

I'm not aware of Ashley's sexual preference in my game.

Again, this argument is meta.

Yes, the argument is meta because it is about character development in a piece of fiction. Weather or not Shepard is aware of something does not alter otherwise established points.

[FoxHound109]

Valdrane78 wrote...

While there are A LOT more bi and gay people on this planet than most peopel think.  The odds of everyone on your team or ship being bi is frankly absurd.

And I disagree that bisexuality is the only real sexuality.  I am not attracted to any man, nore do I have any notions of being with a man.  It has nothing to do with the current social climate, I wouldn't be into men even if being bisexual or gay was the "norm".

It's hard to debate this against your point of view. Not exactly because you're correct, but because nothing I state will change your mind about never being sexually attracted to another man. I think this is a concept that goes painfully against western notions of masculinity and can be difficult to explain if you have built a mentality of "ME? NEVER!" But in most organisms, bisexuality is actually the most common, IIRC. The general idea is that this applies across the board and again, a step further, that most organisms are sexually oportunistic (will take advantage of any sexual situation regardless). I think taboos, which are social constructs, tend to deter these behaviors, but they could still very well be innate. 

I could get inton the subject of a male finding the male form attractive, even in the sense of simply striving to look physically a certain way or appreciating one's own self-image, but I think that discussion would take me pages and pages.

[SandTrout]

Siansonea II wrote...

Anti-same-sex Whack-A-Mole today. Must be the phase of the moon or something.

Actually, this thread was originally pointing out that the moderators are being inconsistant in their enforcement of the forum rules.

[DarkDragon777]

Nashiktal wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

I suppose that since it hasn't been established that the squadmate who died on Virmire could still be alive and end up being a squadmate in ME3 because they didn't find a body?

Did you see the size of that explosion? I doubt the planet is even habitable anymore.

Uh, yeah, it looked like itdestroyed a couple of miles of land. It isn't even possible for a nuke to destroy an entire planet. Virmire is still completely habitable.

Modifié par DarkDragon777, 30 septembre 2011 - 07:25 .

[Valdrane78]

jlb524 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
thank you BSN for teaching me that despite being a staunch supporter of gay rights, gay marriage etc in real life, I am in fact a homophobe becasue I would rather bioware didn't "expand" characters who already showed preferences for specific gender Shepard. and no, its not the same as Garrus - who was not an LI in a first place, so you really had no idea whom he preferred and how (Tali was... lets just say I very much hate how her romance was implemented). this would be like making, say, Joker into LI - who wasn't LI in a first place, but who's obviously close to either gender Shepard. AND he's alive in every single game.

I'm not aware of Ashley's sexual preference in my game.

Again, this argument is meta.

Valdrane78 wrote...

While there are A LOT more bi and gay people on this planet than most peopel think.  The odds of everyone on your team or ship being bi is frankly absurd. 

Just like the odds that pretty much every female Shepard has ever met wants to jump in his pants no matter how ugly or douchy he is...oh, wait.

They don't, that is equally as absurd.

[jlb524]

SandTrout wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I'm not aware of Ashley's sexual preference in my game.

Again, this argument is meta.

Yes, the argument is meta because it is about character development in a piece of fiction. Weather or not Shepard is aware of something does not alter otherwise established points.

But the only thing that should matter is how any given character development is implemented in-universe.

Valdrane78 wrote...

They don't, that is equally as absurd.

Oh, do the romances in ME have an appearance and morality check?

Modifié par jlb524, 30 septembre 2011 - 07:27 .

[FoxHound109]

SandTrout wrote...

FoxHound109 wrote...

I'm not really sure why everyone has such an issue with the idea of all characters being bisexual coming off as unrealistic. There is quite a possibility that bisexuality is the ONLY real sexuality and that exclusive ****** and heterosexuality are social constructs. Bisexuality is probably the order of the day in the animal kingdom. You could even take this further and argue that most organisms are sexual opportunists.

Interesting theory, but little to back it up. Social constructs or not, a recent UCLA suddy found that <4% self-identified as homosexual or bisexual. Significant portions, but not nearly majorities (8-11%) claimed to have had either same-sex encounters in the past or having some sexual attraction to the same sex.

The problem with your statement here comes directly in the form of "self-identified." Most studies that claim to explain the number of ****** or bisexual people in the world are grossly understimating. Not because they want to, but because the data is nearly impossible to discern in human populations where taboos against differing sexual orientations exist. Short answer: simply because they don't self-identify as such it doesn't mean they actually aren't. My theory stems less from humans with social constructs and more with animals in the the animal kingdom that seem to lack out taboos (again, social constructs). Bisexuality is, as stated, very common in those cases.

Modifié par FoxHound109, 30 septembre 2011 - 07:29 .

[Siansonea]

For what it's worth, since this thread seems to be "Siansonea II is a b¡tch for not letting us troll her thread", the very reason I kept the OP the way it is is because of all this anti-same-sex nonsense, which is always "questions" and "concerns" that are a smokescreen for "I don't want teh gay in mah game". Honestly, we're not stupid, we know what's going on, and if you want to be mad about the fact that BioWare is expanding s/s options for Shepard to include m/m (which is the true crux of the matter, let's face it), then you go be mad. But don't expect the rest of us to actually entertain the idea that there is some underlying "valid concern" here. Seriously, people are acting like defending Kaidan's or Garrus' staunch heterosexuality is actually a worthwhile pursuit. You know what? If BioWare makes your bro open to s/s romance, the world will keep on turning. How about diverting that energy toward addressing things that actually DO suck, like the ridiculous logic that led to things like the Lazarus Project, the Baby Reaper, and other facepalmingly bad moments that occur in EVERY playthrough, not just within an optional romance storyline. Mmkay?

[General User]

Xilizhra wrote...

Garrus should be a s/s option because…

Huge anatomical differences between humans and turians makes it clear he's only into Shepard for Shepard's personality as it is.

I strongly disagree, I mean Garrus makes his interest in fShep pretty obvious right from the point he gets out of the sick-bay. It's awkward, and even subtle, but once you know what to look for (compare that scene with a mShep and a fShep) it's there.

Xilizhra wrote...

Tali should be a s/s option because…

The line about suit linkage still sounds highly romantically shy, even with Femshep.

True, I didn't think so myself, but then again I wasn't looking for it. To be honest, since Tali never should have been a romance option anyway… in for a penny in for a pound. I can see that.

Xilizhra wrote...

Miranda should be a s/s option because…

There's still an angle to use re: being intimately involved with Shepard's recreation with Femshep. Initial reluctance may be down to her father being against that sort of thing and her not quite getting past it.

Miranda doesn't have any trouble going against her father's wishes (or even her surrogate father, ie TIM). "Shots were fired."

Xilizhra wrote...

Jacob should be a s/s option because…

No one gives a crap about Jacob.

I like Jacob! He's a stand-up guy!  And, yes no one give a crap about him but... umm... the thing is... tublecaine!

Xilizhra wrote...

Ashley should be a s/s option because…

See Kaidan.

What about it? If anything Kaidan's "Horizon scene" was more… emotional. I didn't think anything was going on beneath the surface in Ash's scene with fShep. But, as before, I wasn't looking. Was there a particular line that pricked your ears?

[Heather Cline]

SandTrout wrote...
On a side note, Jack does explicitly state that she's not into FemShep.

I have to argue the point about Jack. Jack was slated to be a LI for femshep. But as it was stated by Casey Hudson when ME2 came out along with Tali's s/s LI for femshep was removed. Why? Because they said so, in place of Jack's getting it on with femshep they instead put in a dialogue option for Jack to reject femshep. Which I and many others feel to be unfair and wrong. So if they make Jack a s/s LI in ME3 many of us will be happy.

Yes I can see your point that Jack rejected femshep but that was because the dialogue was recorded after they decided to remove all s/s romance options from ME2 which upset many fans of the game. So if there is a retcon for Jack I believe many femshep people will be happy.

Modifié par Heather Cline, 30 septembre 2011 - 07:31 .

[syllogi]

Siansonea II wrote...

For what it's worth, since this thread seems to be "Siansonea II is a b¡tch for not letting us troll her thread", the very reason I kept the OP the way it is is because of all this anti-same-sex nonsense, which is always "questions" and "concerns" that are a smokescreen for "I don't want teh gay in mah game". Honestly, we're not stupid, we know what's going on, and if you want to be mad about the fact that BioWare is expanding s/s options for Shepard to include m/m (which is the true crux of the matter, let's face it), then you go be mad. But don't expect the rest of us to actually entertain the idea that there is some underlying "valid concern" here. Seriously, people are acting like defending Kaidan's or Garrus' staunch heterosexuality is actually a worthwhile pursuit. You know what? If BioWare makes your bro open to s/s romance, the world will keep on turning. How about diverting that energy toward addressing things that actually DO suck, like the ridiculous logic that led to things like the Lazarus Project, the Baby Reaper, and other facepalmingly bad moments that occur in EVERY playthrough, not just within an optional romance storyline. Mmkay?

I know you don't swing that way, but if you ever want to experience some sweet lady on lady love, I'm here for you.

[nelly21]

@ Sians

Awesome, way to use the "everybody whose opinion differs from mine is a bigot, idiotic, racist, homophobic, etc. douche. Way to further the cause.

[Siansonea]

nelly21 wrote...

@ Sians

Awesome, way to use the "everybody whose opinion differs from mine is a bigot, idiotic, racist, homophobic, etc. douche. Way to further the cause.

You're welcome. 

[jlb524]

LOL @TeenZombie

[Siansonea]

TeenZombie wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

For what it's worth, since this thread seems to be "Siansonea II is a b¡tch for not letting us troll her thread", the very reason I kept the OP the way it is is because of all this anti-same-sex nonsense, which is always "questions" and "concerns" that are a smokescreen for "I don't want teh gay in mah game". Honestly, we're not stupid, we know what's going on, and if you want to be mad about the fact that BioWare is expanding s/s options for Shepard to include m/m (which is the true crux of the matter, let's face it), then you go be mad. But don't expect the rest of us to actually entertain the idea that there is some underlying "valid concern" here. Seriously, people are acting like defending Kaidan's or Garrus' staunch heterosexuality is actually a worthwhile pursuit. You know what? If BioWare makes your bro open to s/s romance, the world will keep on turning. How about diverting that energy toward addressing things that actually DO suck, like the ridiculous logic that led to things like the Lazarus Project, the Baby Reaper, and other facepalmingly bad moments that occur in EVERY playthrough, not just within an optional romance storyline. Mmkay?

I know you don't swing that way, but if you ever want to experience some sweet lady on lady love, I'm here for you.