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[CaptainLinkHogthrob]

I know that the morality system of ME2 has beed discussed repeatedly and thorughly, and I humbly apologize for making a new post on the matter, but... Perhaps I'm merely thick as a brick, but the more I read about it, the less I understand.
   So... Shepard's effective morality depends not on absolute amounts of acquired paragon/renegade points but on the fraction acquired of the so far totally available points. M'kay... fair enough. So, for example, if a certain dialogue choice needs 70% paragon to be available, and in the areas I have visited so far there are X paragon points totally available from everything I can do and say, I then need to have 0,7X paragon to be able to pick this option. If I visit a new area, in which there are Y paragon points further to be had, before entering the aforementioned dialogue, I now need 0,7(X+Y) points for it. Fair enough.
   Shepards imported from ME1 get a fraction of their paragon and renegade points to start with in ME2. M'kay... how does this help? Obviously (or so it seems), absolute points are not limited by available points. A new Shepard will be limited (I cannot get more than I can get), but with an imported one I can exceed the normal current maximum and perhaps not worry about choices in the first part of the game. Needing 0,7X paragon is not an issue if I start the game with 15X paragon already.
   Am I right so far? Now to a sentence I stumbled upon at the ME Wiki:

"It is possible to have Shepard's Paragon/Renegade scale(s) maxed out, but still not have the percentage required for certain dialog options."

Huh? How? Does this mean that the effective morality does NOT depend purely on acquired paragon or renegade points relative to total available, but somehow also the acquired paragon/renegade ratio (which need not be the same thing as long as there are neutral options)? If not so, then... exactly WHAT do the visible paragon and renegade scales actually measure? Current blood pressure? Sarcasm? Potrzebies?
   Really - if a full bar may not be enough, then surely it cannot scale to currently total, nor full game total available points? Unless its value in the effective morality is lowered by any opposing points. In which case my initial assumption about acquired fractions is incorrect or at least incomplete. Although I'm certain I've read that exact explanation several times. What am I missing? Have I somehow misunderstood the effect of the class skill bonuses? Or forgotten the meaning of the word "fraction"? Or "full"? Did I suffer a head injury during the Krogan Rebellion?
   Argh! Perhaps a good nights sleep and a gallon of coffee in the morning will make this clear to me. If not, I would be grateful if anyone could clarify this. Thankyou.

Modifié par CaptainLinkHogthrob, 01 octobre 2011 - 04:09 .

[capn233]

I will hazard a guess, but this could be wrong.

I don't think import bonus and the extra ones from the passive count towards the "total available points" that are calculated to determine if an option is available. That is, they are bonus and make it easier to unlock those options if you have missed out on some. That is why it is easier to get them unlocked if you are say a Soldier and choose Shock Trooper for the +100% bonus. To make it simple with a made up example, I think if you were to go to Omega and say it has 10points available, your import bonus is 2, you get a passive bonus of 1, and you have earned 3 points, you have a total of 6 points. It still uses the 10 possible, not 13 as possible. So if an option needed 50% of the points (.5 x 10 = 5), I have 6 and it is unlocked. If I had no bonuses I would have had 3 and it wouldn't have been unlocked.

Additionally, you can save edit and just assign yourself something like around 1900 points a piece and you will have essentially unlocked all options for the entire game. The "maximum" attainable is somewhat around there, and it will fill the bars. I do not know what the exact number, but bars are based on the max number of points in the game, which I think also ignores bonus points. It will keep adding to them as you can tell the balance changes by your scars even if both bars are filled. I do not know if there is a hard cap on them though.

Like I said though, this is just how it seems to work based on my observations. Maybe someone with absolute knowledge of the system will chime in.

[didymos1120]

CaptainLinkHogthrob wrote...

I know that the morality system of ME2 has beed discussed repeatedly and thorughly, and I humbly apologize for making a new post on the matter, but... Perhaps I'm merely thick as a brick, but the more I read about it, the less I understand.
   So... Shepard's effective morality depends not on absolute amounts of acquired paragon/renegade points but on the fraction acquired of the so far totally available points. M'kay... fair enough. So, for example, if a certain dialogue choice needs 70% paragon to be available, and in the areas I have visited so far there are X paragon points totally available from everything I can do and say, I then need to have 0,7X paragon to be able to pick this option. If I visit a new area, in which there are Y paragon points further to be had, before entering the aforementioned dialogue, I now need 0,7(X+Y) points for it. Fair enough.
   Shepards imported from ME1 get a fraction of their paragon and renegade points to start with in ME2. M'kay... how does this help? Obviously (or so it seems), absolute points are not limited by available points. A new Shepard will be limited (I cannot get more than I can get), but with an imported one I can exceed the normal current maximum and perhaps not worry about choices in the first part of the game. Needing 0,7X paragon is not an issue if I start the game with 15X paragon already.
   Am I right so far?

Yes.

Now to a sentence I stumbled upon at the ME Wiki:

"It is possible to have Shepard's Paragon/Renegade scale(s) maxed out, but still not have the percentage required for certain dialog options."

The wiki is badly explaining the fact that the meter on the squad screen can be deceptive when you're very close to being maxed on either scale. It can look full, but not actually be full because you're just a few points shy and the meters aren't precise enough to show that.  People often mistake this for persuasion checks being impossible to pass, but they aren't.   The only one I know of that might actually behave like that is when Vasir takes the hostage in Lair, and that seems to be due to a bug that only affects some people some of the time (most people report it happening when doing Lair post-SM with everything else in the game completed).  I've never run into the problem myself.

Modifié par didymos1120, 01 octobre 2011 - 05:42 .

[CBGB]

Apparently, the game keeps track of "missed opportunities" to earn Paragon/Renegade points. You can read more here.

The bar can then be misleading, but the system makes sense to the extent that you need to keep acting the way you've chosen to maintain your rating. You can't completely disregard moral choices once you've filled the bar.

[CaptainLinkHogthrob]

Thank you for your answers! Ah - so, a misconception based on a graphics illusion. It starts to make sense again. Unless the scales are seriously warped, this implies that there are some options available only if I've been a thorough explorer, at least locally, as well as a really nice guy or an aggressive utter arse. Exciting. Thank you again.


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