75 réponses à ce sujet

[BobZilla84]

I think having them as Spectres is intresting but unlike others I don't think much of their appointment myself.

In my opinion they were made Spectres to replace Shepard and before I get alot of attitude about Kaiden & Ashley's qualifications save it. I don't wanna hear it I love both of them but I don't care they were chosen for several reasons in my opinion their own abilities may or may not have been taken into account at all.

To be honest it was all Politics The Alliance needed a new Poster Boy/Girl for Humanity as Spectre and things were going great until Shepard resurfaces and further solidifies His/Her Superioroty and status as the best theat Humanity has to offer by destroying the Collectors and saving the Galaxy ounce again.

Then the whole Arrival Situation happens and essentually turns Shepard from respected Hero into a War Criminal but also ounce again Shepard Saves the Galaxy from destruction.

So as for The VS being a Spectre I don't really care because neither of them are My Shepards Equal and they will tow the line or I will kill another Spectre nothing is going to stop me from destroying the Reapers nothing or No one.

Shepard's Accomplishment's
Saved Galaxy 3 Times
Killed Two Reapers"Soverign,and the Human Reaper on Foot no less"
Killed 2 Elite Spectre's"Saren,Tela Vasir"
Saved Colonies from Destruction "Feros,Tera Nova,Horizon,and many more"
Forged many Useful Friendships "Rachni,Geth,Krogan,Quarians"
Leads Galaxies most Deadly and Skilled Team

The Viremire Survivor's Accomplishments
Helped Shepard Defeat Soverign
Helped Shepard Kill Saren
Helped Shepard Save a few Colonies "Terra Nova & Fero's"

And unless the explain why Ash/Kaiden where fast tracked to Spectre Status by them doing alot of awesome stuff that we will hear about I will still say Poitics.

And I love Both Ashley and Kaiden but my point is that Unless Bioware has made them acheive alot between the Games I need to hear about their amazing exploits or I won't take their appointment seriously.

Modifié par BobZilla 2k10, 01 octobre 2011 - 11:37 .

[Aeowyn]

That asari who is stuck on the Citadel because C-Sec suspects her of being a geth spy or whatever says "The Alliance has been pushing for more humans to become Spectres" or something similar. So yes, making Ashley and Kaidan a Spectre does make sense. They helped Shepard in ME1 and have since been promoted and served the Alliance well.

[scampermax]

BobZilla 2k10 wrote...
Shepard's Accomplishment's
Saved Galaxy 3 Times
Killed Two Reapers"Soverign,and the Human Reaper on Foot no less"
Killed 2 Elite Spectre's"Saren,Tela Vasir"
Saved Colonies from Destruction "Feros,Tera Nova,Horizon,and many more"
Forged many Useful Friendships "Rachni,Geth,Krogan,Quarians"
Leads Galaxies most Deadly and Skilled Team
.

All those accomplishments came after Shepard was made Spectre. Prior to that Shepard's accomplishments in ten years of service amounted to one of three things: war hero, butcher of Toran, or sole survivor.

BobZilla 2k10 wrote...
And
unless the explain why Ash/Kaiden where fast tracked to Spectre Status
by them doing alot of awesome stuff that we will hear about I will still
say Poitics.

Politics was also the reason Shepard was put forth as a Spectre candidate. We don't know what the VS did during the two years Shepard was dead. That's plenty of time for them to have done something as awesome as Shepard did during her first ten years of service.

[Fiery Phoenix]

BobZilla 2k10 wrote...

Then the whole Arrival Situation happens and essentually turns Shepard from respected Hero into a War Criminal but also ounce again Shepard Saves the Galaxy from destruction. .

Shepard was pretty much a war criminal well before Arrival, but I see what you mean.

[ddv.rsa]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

BobZilla 2k10 wrote...

Then the whole Arrival Situation happens and essentually turns Shepard from respected Hero into a War Criminal but also ounce again Shepard Saves the Galaxy from destruction. .

Shepard was pretty much a war criminal well before Arrival, but I see what you mean.

What do you mean? Working with Cerberus?

[Fiery Phoenix]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

BobZilla 2k10 wrote...

Then the whole Arrival Situation happens and essentually turns Shepard from respected Hero into a War Criminal but also ounce again Shepard Saves the Galaxy from destruction. .

Shepard was pretty much a war criminal well before Arrival, but I see what you mean.

What do you mean? Working with Cerberus?

Among other things, yes. It's essentially the collective actions from ME1 all the way through Arrival.

[ddv.rsa]

Elaborate. Fighting geth, mercs and criminals don't really qualify as war crimes. You could say a renegade who kills the Rachni Queen and destroys the genophage data is a war criminal, but in both cases the Council is guilty of the same thing.

[The Tookah]

All things considered, I do not find it surprising that VS is a Spectre. They were an important part of Shepard's team and of proven capability. As pointed out above, humans have gained importance since the Citadel battle. We don't know how many Spectres may have died in that battle. Maybe the ranks needed more bodies. It is hard to find trained operatives at that level. It takes years of training. I am reminded of the recent American loss of a Seal team.

[MikeNoBrake]

BobZilla 2k10 wrote...

I think having them as Spectres is intresting but unlike others I don't think much of their appointment myself.

In my opinion they were made Spectres to replace Shepard and before I get alot of attitude about Kaiden & Ashley's qualifications save it. I don't wanna hear it I love both of them but I don't care they were chosen for several reasons in my opinion their own abilities may or may not have been taken into account at all.

To be honest it was all Politics The Alliance needed a new Poster Boy/Girl for Humanity as Spectre and things were going great until Shepard resurfaces and further solidifies His/Her Superioroty and status as the best theat Humanity has to offer by destroying the Collectors and saving the Galaxy ounce again.

Then the whole Arrival Situation happens and essentually turns Shepard from respected Hero into a War Criminal but also ounce again Shepard Saves the Galaxy from destruction.

So as for The VS being a Spectre I don't really care because neither of them are My Shepards Equal and they will tow the line or I will kill another Spectre nothing is going to stop me from destroying the Reapers nothing or No one.

Shepard's Accomplishment's
Saved Galaxy 3 Times
Killed Two Reapers"Soverign,and the Human Reaper on Foot no less"
Killed 2 Elite Spectre's"Saren,Tela Vasir"
Saved Colonies from Destruction "Feros,Tera Nova,Horizon,and many more"
Forged many Useful Friendships "Rachni,Geth,Krogan,Quarians"
Leads Galaxies most Deadly and Skilled Team

The Viremire Survivor's Accomplishments
Helped Shepard Defeat Soverign
Helped Shepard Kill Saren
Helped Shepard Save a few Colonies "Terra Nova & Fero's"

And unless the explain why Ash/Kaiden where fast tracked to Spectre Status by them doing alot of awesome stuff that we will hear about I will still say Poitics.

And I love Both Ashley and Kaiden but my point is that Unless Bioware has made them acheive alot between the Games I need to hear about their amazing exploits or I won't take their appointment seriously.

This.

With a dead Shepard, the Alliance needed a new human spectre and the first candidate for that role was obviously the VS.
There's no other explanations IMHO.

Modifié par MikeNoBrake, 01 octobre 2011 - 12:16 .

[Dave of Canada]

BobZilla 2k10 wrote...

Saved Galaxy 3 Times

Shepard was already a spectre during these events.
Publically known only after the battle of the Citadel.

Killed Two Reapers"Soverign,and the Human Reaper on Foot no less"

He didn't "kill" Sovereign, the Alliance fleet did.
The public doesn't know about the Human Reaper.

Killed 2 Elite Spectre's"Saren,Tela Vasir"

His actions to kill Saren gave him hero status, however he was already a spectre.
Tela Vasir's death isn't anything to boast about, nor does the majority of the galaxy care.

Saved Colonies from Destruction "Feros,Tera Nova,Horizon,and many more"

You were already a spectre here and most of the aliens don't give a damn because they are human colonies, though they treat you as a hero.

Forged many Useful Friendships "Rachni,Geth,Krogan,Quarians"

Geth and Rachni are not things you want to advertise to the public, Krogan is wait-and-see and almost nobody cares about the Quarians.

Leads Galaxies most Deadly and Skilled Team

While working with a criminal organization.

The Viremire Survivor's Accomplishments
Helped Shepard Defeat Soverign

Without being a spectre.

Helped Shepard Kill Saren

Without being a spectre.

Helped Shepard Save a few Colonies "Terra Nova & Fero's"

Without being a spectre.


Unless you imply that saving the universe was all Shepard's doing and their own talents meant absolutely nothing, then sure you'd have a point. However, their talents did serve Shepard and they've shown themselves as skilled individuals. They technically did more than Shepard did pre-spectre status (who's one accomplishment can possibly simply be staying alive).

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 01 octobre 2011 - 12:18 .

[ddv.rsa]

Dave of Canada wrote...

He didn't "kill" Sovereign, the Alliance fleet did.

Technically true, though in game various people credit Shepard with killing Sovereign. Off the top of my head I can think of TIM and Shepard himself.

[Wulfram]

The main problem is if Shepard basically left them to twiddle their thumbs on the Normandy for the whole mission. The only thing you can guarantee that they were there for is Eden Prime.

They also haven't really shown the capability to operate independently, which is fairly fundamental to being a Spectre.

But of course they've quite probably done things in Shepard's absence.

[LOLandStuff]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

He didn't "kill" Sovereign, the Alliance fleet did.

Technically true, though in game various people credit Shepard with killing Sovereign. Off the top of my head I can think of TIM and Shepard himself.

It's thanks to Shepard the Alliance killed Sovereign because he was dumb enough to not release control of Saren's form in time and that weakened him. Joker says his shields are down as soon as you kill Saren and then the Alliance concentrates fire.

[Funkcase]

This has come up alot, but keep in mind Garrus has been off the radar for some time, he quite C-sec becuase he didn't like following their orders, I doubt he would listen to the Council. Nobody but Shepard knows what Garrus was doing on Omega, and that wouldn't qualify him to be a Spectre anyway, what he was doing was good but to the Council he would be considered a criminal.

Also I like the idea of a second human Spectre over another Turian Spectre. Garrus is great but I think the Galaxy has enough Turian Spectres, if the Alliance is a Council race now they need more than one Spectre, and it doesn't look good if that one Spectre is on trial for genocide.

Modifié par Funkcase, 01 octobre 2011 - 12:49 .

[CroGamer002]

Dave of Canada wrote...

BobZilla 2k10 wrote...

Killed Two Reapers"Soverign,and the Human Reaper on Foot no less"

He didn't "kill" Sovereign, the Alliance fleet did.
The public doesn't know about the Human Reaper.

Shepard is responsible for taking down Sovy's shields and not attacking anymore.

[Someone With Mass]

Is there really not a single other Alliance marine good enough to become a Spectre instead of the VS?

Because I'd place them pretty low on the ranked list.

[Dave of Canada]

Mesina2 wrote...

Shepard is responsible for taking down Sovy's shields and not attacking anymore.

Except what do you think the public thinks destroyed Sovereign? The 5th fleet attacking and destroying Sovereign or Shepard killing Saren?

[Someone With Mass]

I don't think the public opinion matters in the investigation. Or at all, for that matter.

[CroGamer002]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Is there really not a single other Alliance marine good enough to become a Spectre instead of the VS?

Because I'd place them pretty low on the ranked list.

What others?

Only Alliance marine we know is James Vega.
And from what we find out, he probably f*cked up something big time.


As for VS?

Let's see.
Ashley Williams had the best "score" in leadership and well respected in her squad while also well trained and skilled for combat.
Kaidan Alenko has higher rank then Ashley so he has to be at least as good as Ashley and also most powerful Alliance Biotic.
Both are very loyal to Alliance.
Both can lead a small STG team into the Geth fortress that also has Krogans.
Both accompanied Commander Shepard, hero of the Citadel.


Since Alliance wants more of their own for Spectres, VS is the best next candidate.

[Fiery Phoenix]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Elaborate. Fighting geth, mercs and criminals don't really qualify as war crimes. You could say a renegade who kills the Rachni Queen and destroys the genophage data is a war criminal, but in both cases the Council is guilty of the same thing.

Rather than reiterating, I'll quote a list of questionable actions by Shepard pe-Arrival, in courtesy of Zulu_DFA:

All right, let's take a look at Shepard's criminal count in its entirety:

• Destroying the Thorian.
• Killing/releasing the Rachni queen.
• Detonating nuclear devices on Virmire and Pragia.
• Hi-jacking the Normandy SR-1.
• Failing to report back to the Citadel after surviving an unknown assailant's attack on the Normandy SR-1.
• Continuing to feign own death, while associating self with Cerberus, a terrorist group and an avowed enemy of the Council and the System Alliance.
• Having an illegal AI system aboard a private space vehicle, creating a sentient space vehicle with military grade equipment and with firepower of a heavy cruiser (at least).
• Sheltering convicted and wanted criminals aboard the ship.
• Unauthorized relations of unclear nature with reclusive and quarantined races, including the Geth.
• Murder (including that of a Council spectre).
• Terrorism.
• Unlawful detention.
• Torture.
• Burglary.
• Abusive language and conduct.
• Smuggling.
• Tax evasion.

Here is the original post.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 01 octobre 2011 - 01:39 .

[CroGamer002]

^That was not a nuke in Pragia.

[Wulfram]

They might be crimes, perhaps, but none of those are really war crimes, at least not in the context they occured.

edit: except maybe the nukes, but I don't really think so.

Modifié par Wulfram, 01 octobre 2011 - 01:53 .

[shepskisaac]

Yes, and you will deal.  Join the celebration

Modifié par IsaacShep, 01 octobre 2011 - 02:00 .

[Funkcase]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Is there really not a single other Alliance marine good enough to become a Spectre instead of the VS?

Because I'd place them pretty low on the ranked list.

Really? They've done more than Shepard did before he/she became a Spectre..

And working with Shepard already took out needing a mentour.

Modifié par Funkcase, 01 octobre 2011 - 02:05 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Funkcase wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Is there really not a single other Alliance marine good enough to become a Spectre instead of the VS?

Because I'd place them pretty low on the ranked list.

Really? They've done more than Shepard did before he/she became a Spectre..

And working with Shepard already took out needing a mentour.

I wonder what their Torfan/Elysium/Akuze was. The battle of the Citadel? Or something else perhaps.