46 réponses à ce sujet

[Blacklash93]

If we use only Reaper tech to win the war, we should be screwed.

As Sovereign said, the greatest reason we are no match for his kind is that we are always developing on the technology of the Mass Relays. Their technology. All we can hope to do is lag behind their accomplishments. The Reapers are masters of the tech they utilize and they know everything we could ever do with it. Legion echoed this same message. By using another's path you blind yourselves to other, possibly better alternatives. Your enemy knows you completely if you follow in their footsteps.

This applies to all technology developed from Sovereign's remains... including the often-brought-up Thanix Cannons. Sure, they're powerful, but should we really believe that the Reapers have no countermeasure for this?  The Reapers can do everything we mimic of them, but better and we don't have the time or resources to rival them on their grounds.

Don't get me wrong. Tech developed or inspired by Sovereign should definitely help in the war - stronger is stronger no matter how you spin it. But if Mass Effect's overall plot wants to sych up with it themes, then we something see something else giving us the edge against the Reapers. I'll be very disappointed if this isn't the case.

[Captain Crash]

Havent you just contadicted yourself.


"This applies to all technology developed from Sovereign's remains... including the often-brought-up Thanix Cannons"

"Don't get me wrong. Tech developed or inspired by Sovereign should definitely help in the war - stronger is stronger no matter how you spin it"

Modifié par Captain Crash, 01 octobre 2011 - 09:43 .

[Arcadian Legend]

Some people are speculating about some kind of ancient hidden power/weapon that would help in the fight.

[Blacklash93]

Captain Crash wrote...

Havent you just contadicted yourself.


"This applies to all technology developed from Sovereign's remains... including the often-brought-up Thanix Cannons"

"Don't get me wrong. Tech developed or inspired by Sovereign should definitely help in the war - stronger is stronger no matter how you spin it"

No, I didn't. I never said using the Reapers own technology wouldn't help against them. I said it wouldn't be effective enough to rival them.

[111987]

So you want us to start developing brand new tech right in the middle of the war?

That is a horrible strategy...

[Yakko77]

I'm fairly sure beating the Reapers will require some thinking outside the box but it may just involve using their tech in ways they don't expect. For example, one of my theories on how to beat the Reapers is to reprogram Relays to shoot them into a star or black hole. Or given that destroying a Relay is akin to a supernova then maybe luring them into battle near one and setting it off somehow is the way to go.

[Yakko77]

111987 wrote...

So you want us to start developing brand new tech right in the middle of the war?

That is a horrible strategy...

That's a joke?  Right?

[SandTrout]

111987 wrote...

So you want us to start developing brand new tech right in the middle of the war?

That is a horrible strategy...

You should review WW2 history. Jet engines, nuclear bombs, rockets, multiple types of high explosives, specialized computers, and many other technologies were developed durring that war, including many projects which did not start before the begining of the war. Tanks were invented during WW1.

Modifié par SandTrout, 01 octobre 2011 - 09:50 .

[111987]

SandTrout wrote...

111987 wrote...

So you want us to start developing brand new tech right in the middle of the war?

That is a horrible strategy...

You should review WW2 history. Jet engines, nuclear bombs, rockets, multiple types of high explosives, specialized computers, and many other technologies were developed durring that war, including many projects which did not start before the begining of the war. Tanks were invented during WW1.

That was all based on existing technology. OP is saying we should avoid using Reaper tech as much as possible, meaning mass effect technology.

[SandTrout]

As for OT:

That quote from Sovereign does not apply to technology directly drawn from the Reapers. It was specific to those technologies which we were specifically laid out for organic species to fine (Mass Relays, Citadel, ect.). Anything salvaged from a Reaper's corpse is completely outside the domain of Sovereign's speech, as no culture before ours had ever destroyed a Reaper and had a couple of years to do R&D on it.

[Yakko77]

SandTrout wrote...

111987 wrote...

So you want us to start developing brand new tech right in the middle of the war?

That is a horrible strategy...

You should review WW2 history. Jet engines, nuclear bombs, rockets, multiple types of high explosives, specialized computers, and many other technologies were developed durring that war, including many projects which did not start before the begining of the war. Tanks were invented during WW1.

That's exactly what I ws thinking too which is why I'm not sure if he was joking or maybe he's not a student of military history.

Cool sig BTW! 

[SandTrout]

111987 wrote...

That was all based on existing technology.

Incorrect. Jet engines were pretty innovative for the era, and Reaper tech is based on may of the same principals as contemporary ME tech.

[Blacklash93]

111987 wrote...

So you want us to start developing brand new tech right in the middle of the war?

That is a horrible strategy...

It's obviously a bit too late for that, just as equipping the entire galaxy's fleets with Thanix Cannons is. Only the geth have already been dabbling in new tech. My point is that ME3 should somehow tie the themes of "alternative technology" it established with Legion together somehow.

If it's specifically stated that the Reapers have the edge against us because we use their technology and then we proceed to defeat them with their technology, no matter how powerful, wouldn't that be a contradiction in story themes?

Modifié par Blacklash93, 01 octobre 2011 - 09:58 .

[Arcadian Legend]

Not quite. The OP did say that there wouldn't be enough time to make new tech.

I just got ninja'd. 

Modifié par DarkRiku7, 01 octobre 2011 - 09:57 .

[Yakko77]

SandTrout wrote...

As for OT:

That quote from Sovereign does not apply to technology directly drawn from the Reapers. It was specific to those technologies which we were specifically laid out for organic species to fine (Mass Relays, Citadel, ect.). Anything salvaged from a Reaper's corpse is completely outside the domain of Sovereign's speech, as no culture before ours had ever destroyed a Reaper and had a couple of years to do R&D on it.

Yeah, I don't think Thanix cannon technology falling into the hands of organics was part of the Reapers plan either.  The increase in firepower gives any ship equiped with it at least a fighting chance and not simple be live target practice for Reapers.

[Yakko77]

SandTrout wrote...

111987 wrote...

That was all based on existing technology.

Incorrect. Jet engines were pretty innovative for the era, and Reaper tech is based on may of the same principals as contemporary ME tech.

The atom bomb was a technological leap if there ever was one in the middle of a war.

The history of war is filled with technology advances that change the rules of war and bite the butts of enemies who are ready to fight the last war,  The Reapers have been fighting the same war for millions of years.  I have little doubt beating them in ME3 will involve throwing something more than a few Thanix cannon equiped warships.

Modifié par Yakko77, 01 octobre 2011 - 10:01 .

[Captain Crash]

Yakko77 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

111987 wrote...

So you want us to start developing brand new tech right in the middle of the war?

That is a horrible strategy...

You should review WW2 history. Jet engines, nuclear bombs, rockets, multiple types of high explosives, specialized computers, and many other technologies were developed durring that war, including many projects which did not start before the begining of the war. Tanks were invented during WW1.

That's exactly what I ws thinking too which is why I'm not sure if he was joking or maybe he's not a student of military history.

Its still not a realistic analogy though.   There have been potentially thousands maybe millions of cycles of extinction prior to this one.  Why are Council races special enough to create technology from the ground up where all other races failed?

Military Innovation can cause great advances. Assuming however we are better then any of the other races before us and we will suceed where they failed is very egocentric.  Why are we so special to create something where all others failed?  Which always leads back to how will we beat them and a need for a "ancient" super weapon.

It will be interesting to see where it leads and what Bioware will do. Don't dismiss 111987 comment so casually though, there is a point.

Modifié par Captain Crash, 01 octobre 2011 - 10:04 .

[111987]

Yakko77 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

111987 wrote...

That was all based on existing technology.

Incorrect. Jet engines were pretty innovative for the era, and Reaper tech is based on may of the same principals as contemporary ME tech.

The atom bomb was a technological leap if there ever was one in the middle of a war.

The history of war is filled with technology advances that change the rules of war and bite the butts of enemies who are ready to fight the last war,  The Reapers have been fighting the same war for millions of years.  I have little doubt beating them in ME3 will involve throwing something more than a few Thanix cannon equiped warships.

Can you give me an example, to help me better understand? All I've heard so far are historical examples and vague, conceptual stuff. What kind of tech could we develop to give us an edge?

The problem we have here is that if some magic new tech is developed that allows us to defeat the Reapers, and it isn't based on anything previously seen in-universe, it becomes a deus ex machina.

[Blacklash93]

111987 wrote...

The problem we have here is that if some magic new tech is developed that allows us to defeat the Reapers, and it isn't based on anything previously seen in-universe, it becomes a deus ex machina.

DEM is when something comes out of nowhere to save the day. A new technology, if developed in the story intelligently, would not be DEM. There are threads in the story and its themes which could allow such a thing.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 01 octobre 2011 - 10:11 .

[111987]

Blacklash93 wrote...

111987 wrote...

The problem we have here is that if some magic new tech is developed that allows us to defeat the Reapers, and it isn't based on anything previously seen in-universe, it becomes a deus ex machina.

DEM is when something comes out of nowhere to save the day. A new technolgy, if developed in the story intelligently, would not be DEM. There are threads in the story and its themes which could allow such a thing.

For it to not be a DEM, the basis for this new tech would have to have been seen previously. Otherwise it doesn't matter how well the new tech was developed in ME3; it's still a DEM.

[Yakko77]

Captain Crash wrote...

Yakko77 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

111987 wrote...

So you want us to start developing brand new tech right in the middle of the war?

That is a horrible strategy...

You should review WW2 history. Jet engines, nuclear bombs, rockets, multiple types of high explosives, specialized computers, and many other technologies were developed durring that war, including many projects which did not start before the begining of the war. Tanks were invented during WW1.

That's exactly what I ws thinking too which is why I'm not sure if he was joking or maybe he's not a student of military history.

Its still not a realistic analogy though.   There have been potentially thousands maybe millions of cycles of extinction prior to this one.  Why are Council races special enough to create technology from the ground up where all other races failed?

Military Innovation can cause great advances. Assuming however we are better then any of the other races before us and we will suceed where they failed is very egocentric.  Why are we so special to create something where all others failed?  Which always leads back to how will we beat them and a need for a "ancient" super weapon.

It will be interesting to see where it leads and what Bioware will do. Don't dismiss 111987 comment so casually though, there is a point.

My main theory isn't so much beating the Reapers with some new super tech but using their tech in ways they never intended like altering a Mass Relay to shoot them into a star or black hole or detonating one with the Reapers in close proximity.

[AtreiyaN7]

The problem I have with this argument is the fact that the Protheans almost mastered the mass effect technology. They had almost hit the point where they could have created their own relays, and their near-mastery of it is what saved us. Their knowledge is what gave Shepard the backdoor into the Citadel, etc. And what about the Thannix Cannon in ME2? It was based on research done with Sovereign's bits & pieces, was it not? It's part of what helped us keep our hides intact in ME2.

If we're careful, I think that some Reaper tech can be advantageous. However, things like artifacts that can Indoctrinate people, etc. can be very dangerous (a la Arrival). If we're smart about it, then I think we should use some of it at this point (I used to be more diehard and totally anti-Reaper at one point - heh). I just don't want to see us being really lazy and not using our own ingenuity at all or taking the Reapers' evolutionary path where we eventually transform into machine-based intelligences.

EDIT: Not that turning into a machine intelligence is necessarily bad - wouldn't be against that per se, just don't was us to become "evil" like the Reapers.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 01 octobre 2011 - 10:44 .

[Someone With Mass]

We're already using their technology, even without Sovereign's remains, so why stop there?

Technology can still advance if given enough time.

[Yakko77]

Someone With Mass wrote...

We're already using their technology, even without Sovereign's remains, so why stop there?

Technology can still advance if given enough time.

True but I think what some are saying is that there isn't enough time with the Reapers on the march at the intro of the game it seems.  Time isn't overly registered in the game but I tend to think the events of both games thus far are no more than a month tops.  Heck, it took roughly 4 years to develope the atom bomb which ended WWII.  I find myself wondering if the events that take place in ME3 will even amount to 4 days.

[The-Person]

Yakko77 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

We're already using their technology, even without Sovereign's remains, so why stop there?

Technology can still advance if given enough time.

True but I think what some are saying is that there isn't enough time with the Reapers on the march at the intro of the game it seems.  Time isn't overly registered in the game but I tend to think the events of both games thus far are no more than a month tops.  Heck, it took roughly 4 years to develope the atom bomb which ended WWII.  I find myself wondering if the events that take place in ME3 will even amount to 4 days.

I think it would last more then days, maybe a month would be reasonable.