46 réponses à ce sujet

[Annihilator27]

The-Person wrote...

Yakko77 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

We're already using their technology, even without Sovereign's remains, so why stop there?

Technology can still advance if given enough time.

True but I think what some are saying is that there isn't enough time with the Reapers on the march at the intro of the game it seems.  Time isn't overly registered in the game but I tend to think the events of both games thus far are no more than a month tops.  Heck, it took roughly 4 years to develope the atom bomb which ended WWII.  I find myself wondering if the events that take place in ME3 will even amount to 4 days.

I think it would last more then days, maybe a month would be reasonable.

Perhaps,Like how thermal clips causes the weapons of old to suddenly dissapear....

[Monochrome Wench]

Why are the current citadel races better able to fight them off? Because they, well at least some factions of said citadel races, know its coming and they know what they are up against. Its not a complete unknown for the organics compared to previous cycles.

[SkittlesKat96]

111987 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

111987 wrote...

So you want us to start developing brand new tech right in the middle of the war?

That is a horrible strategy...

You should review WW2 history. Jet engines, nuclear bombs, rockets, multiple types of high explosives, specialized computers, and many other technologies were developed durring that war, including many projects which did not start before the begining of the war. Tanks were invented during WW1.

That was all based on existing technology. OP is saying we should avoid using Reaper tech as much as possible, meaning mass effect technology.

He didn't say that...

[DCarter]

Reaper tech is no match for the power of love.

[tjzsf]

WRT "developing entirely new tech in the middle of a war is a terrible idea":
http://www.mayofamil...uperiority.html

A surface-level glance at military history reveals tons of innovations that were instrumental in determining the victor. A more detailed look reveals most of those to be tweaks (modifications on existing technology) rather than completely new branches of tech.

[vader da slayer]

SandTrout wrote...

111987 wrote...

So you want us to start developing brand new tech right in the middle of the war?

That is a horrible strategy...

You should review WW2 history. Jet engines, nuclear bombs, rockets, multiple types of high explosives, specialized computers, and many other technologies were developed durring that war, including many projects which did not start before the begining of the war. Tanks were invented during WW1.

computers weren't used in the WWII. the ME-262 was a failure of a jet aircraft as P-51D's (propeller aircraft that use a Rolls Royce V12 engine) shot them down all the time. and Nukes were only successful because they were developed in a country not currently under bombardment by coordinated airial assualts and ground troops from 4 different countries.

the problem with ME and developing new technologies from the ground up is that they are currently under invasion on all fronts by a technologyically superior and numberically superior force. so yes attempting to, from scratch, develope new tech is a VERY bad idea. ask hitler

[Dean_the_Young]

111987 wrote...

So you want us to start developing brand new tech right in the middle of the war?

That is a horrible strategy...

I'm sure we'll match a hundreds-of-years tech difference in a matter of weeks if we abandon all e-zero tech and start at the bootstrap rocket stage again.

[Someone With Mass]

If the people of Mass Effect can master Reaper technology in a matter of weeks after the first exposure, I will seriously quit playing the game, because that'd just be bad.

"What was that? Ancient ruins from some alien empire? We'll be on the top in a matter of a few decades and can compete with other races that have had the same technology for thousands of years!"

Sounds so much of a unrealistic stretch, it's not even funny.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, at least they established mass-replication technology in ME2 for the smaller stuff. And the time from ME1 justifies a general military-wide upgrade with Thanix and such, considering the history of ME1 logistics.

But I agree that cutting-edge tech should be 'spear-point' strategy, not fully-adopted.

[Sowtaaw]

Someone With Mass wrote...

If the people of Mass Effect can master Reaper technology in a matter of weeks after the first exposure, I will seriously quit playing the game, because that'd just be bad.

"What was that? Ancient ruins from some alien empire? We'll be on the top in a matter of a few decades and can compete with other races that have had the same technology for thousands of years!"

Sounds so much of a unrealistic stretch, it's not even funny.

Well if the geth complete the dyson sphere and upload all runtimes to the new hardware and focus all processing power to come with a answer to how to end or slow down the reaper war.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Well, I'd definitely take winning with reaper tech over "ancient beings of light" or some other such nonsense.

[Zakatak757]

I'm curious as to why NOBODY has created some other form of FTL travel by now. There are other methods of doing it that don't require mass effect fields.

Why not manufacture some kind of mobile railgun platform? The most powerful round out there is a 30kg slug going 0.1c. If we could make some kind of platform that could mount, say, a 300kg slug, that would be sufficient. Brute force works, and the Derelict Reaper proved it. No magic, just a huge slug that could pierce the ship.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sowtaaw wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

If the people of Mass Effect can master Reaper technology in a matter of weeks after the first exposure, I will seriously quit playing the game, because that'd just be bad.

"What was that? Ancient ruins from some alien empire? We'll be on the top in a matter of a few decades and can compete with other races that have had the same technology for thousands of years!"

Sounds so much of a unrealistic stretch, it's not even funny.

Well if the geth complete the dyson sphere and upload all runtimes to the new hardware and focus all processing power to come with a answer to how to end or slow down the reaper war.

"Ah, snap, I knew we should have spent the time and resources building actual weapons to fight with!"

[Dean_the_Young]

Zakatak757 wrote...

I'm curious as to why NOBODY has created some other form of FTL travel by now. There are other methods of doing it that don't require mass effect fields.

Says who?

The rule of sci-fi isn't that all sci-fi is equally valid in all universes. The only sci-fi that works in the Mass Effect universe is the differential-premise of the Mass Effect universe. Mass Effect doesn't apply to Star Trek, Star Trek tech doesn't work in Star Wars, Star Wars doesn't apply to the umpteen different Gundam franchises, 'that damn anime crap' doesn't work in the Mass Effect universe.

This is something people have some trouble grasping, but there isn't any obligation or caveat or necessity for the existience of any other form of FTL. Mass Effect tech can well be the only form of FTL in the Mass Effect universe.

Why not manufacture some kind of mobile railgun platform? The most powerful round out there is a 30kg slug going 0.1c. If we could make some kind of platform that could mount, say, a 300kg slug, that would be sufficient. Brute force works, and the Derelict Reaper proved it. No magic, just a huge slug that could pierce the ship.

A 300kg slug may not be able to be sent at a comparable rate of acceleration, and even if it could a 300 kg canon system may not be as efficient in the economies of war as a 30kg gun. White Elephants a war do not win.

[Reiella]

Blacklash93 wrote...

111987 wrote...

The problem we have here is that if some magic new tech is developed that allows us to defeat the Reapers, and it isn't based on anything previously seen in-universe, it becomes a deus ex machina.

DEM is when something comes out of nowhere to save the day. A new technology, if developed in the story intelligently, would not be DEM. There are threads in the story and its themes which could allow such a thing.

The problem being in terms of story, it wouldn't be intelligent or believable for a sudden alternate approach to breaking the laws of physics in the span of the story-frame.

The atomic bomb, still played on pre-existing theories and approaches.  It was a massive undertaking and it certainly changed war, but it was more a situation of weaponizing already existing science.  It wasn't a case of Einstein pulling a Chronosphere out of his backside and retconning WW2.

[vader da slayer]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Zakatak757 wrote...

I'm curious as to why NOBODY has created some other form of FTL travel by now. There are other methods of doing it that don't require mass effect fields.

Says who?

The rule of sci-fi isn't that all sci-fi is equally valid in all universes. The only sci-fi that works in the Mass Effect universe is the differential-premise of the Mass Effect universe. Mass Effect doesn't apply to Star Trek, Star Trek tech doesn't work in Star Wars, Star Wars doesn't apply to the umpteen different Gundam franchises, 'that damn anime crap' doesn't work in the Mass Effect universe.

This is something people have some trouble grasping, but there isn't any obligation or caveat or necessity for the existience of any other form of FTL. Mass Effect tech can well be the only form of FTL in the Mass Effect universe.

Why not manufacture some kind of mobile railgun platform? The most powerful round out there is a 30kg slug going 0.1c. If we could make some kind of platform that could mount, say, a 300kg slug, that would be sufficient. Brute force works, and the Derelict Reaper proved it. No magic, just a huge slug that could pierce the ship.

A 300kg slug may not be able to be sent at a comparable rate of acceleration, and even if it could a 300 kg canon system may not be as efficient in the economies of war as a 30kg gun. White Elephants a war do not win.

except for the fact that the ME universe builds on our current knowledge of science and in our current world the existance of wormholes and hyperspace (both highly similar but different) are both still present in the ME universe.

also the mass of the projectile in a ME field doesn't matter as the ME feild lowers the mass (there by breaking the laws of physics) to somthing less (and since this is basicly magic it could be that both the 30kg and 300kg could be lowered to the same amount of mass) and there by the mass doesn't matter just what you can accelearate the mass too. so the biggest reason for the size of the round is that it could be due to the fact that 10% the speed of light is the fastest they have the ability to make a round travel and a system firing a 30kg slug is what fits into their current warships.

and to those that doubt my above statement about the mass not being as big a factor in determining the kinect energy (how bang you will get when it hits) of any object  is:

KE = .5*m*(v^2) -- if you increase the mass by a factor of 10 the result is increased by a factor of 10. if velocity is increased by a factor of 10 the result is increased by 10^2

so a 30kg slug at 0.01c (0.1 is 10%) has a kinetic energy of 2.7x10^14 Nm (or Joules).
and a 300kg slug has a KE of 2.7*10^15 Nm (or Joules).

--side note: 1 kiloton =~ 4.2 Tera Joules, Tera is 10^12. these two rounds would hit with the force of a  228 TJ (~54 kilotons) and 2.3 PJ (peta joule) (~543 kilotons) bomb respectively.  largest yield US Nuclear weapon is 5.0 PJ (for reference). --

so to increase the impact energy (assuming that there are no relativistic effects on the round and that the speed of the round means there is no loss in energy if it passes through some form of atmosphere or other non-vacuum) by a factor of 10 (which is somewhat big) the platform to fire said round may have to go from fitting in the ship to being a ship. which in war terms isn't practical.

you also have to remember that as a ship fires heat is built up and a battle is more based on ships getting too hot than blowing up from getting hit. so a ship thats one big cannon isn't good for a battle with other ships since its a) isn't going to be that manuverable and will heat up really fast.

[Landline]

There's simply not enough time to develop new technology from scratch.

All that can be done now is to advance farther down the path that the Reapers set us on then they wanted us to.

[Dean_the_Young]

vader da slayer wrote...

except for the fact that the ME universe builds on our current knowledge of science and in our current world the existance of wormholes and hyperspace (both highly similar but different) are both still present in the ME universe.

Hyperspace in the mass effect context isn't the same as hyperspace in the star wars context. Nor are wormholes treated as a viable method of travel in the Mass Effect universe, regardless of how other medium treat it.

and to those that doubt my above statement about the mass not being as big a factor in determining the kinect energy (how bang you will get when it hits) of any object  is:

I'm always impressed by people who so miss the point of a sci-fi conceit when they try to quantify a deliberate irrationality.

[vader da slayer]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

vader da slayer wrote...

except for the fact that the ME universe builds on our current knowledge of science and in our current world the existance of wormholes and hyperspace (both highly similar but different) are both still present in the ME universe.

Hyperspace in the mass effect context isn't the same as hyperspace in the star wars context. Nor are wormholes treated as a viable method of travel in the Mass Effect universe, regardless of how other medium treat it.

and to those that doubt my above statement about the mass not being as big a factor in determining the kinect energy (how bang you will get when it hits) of any object  is:

I'm always impressed by people who so miss the point of a sci-fi conceit when they try to quantify a deliberate irrationality.

hyperspace is hyperspace, its a defined thing. its the same in Star Wars as it is in Stargate as it is in any sci-fi. same for wormholes, which is one of Einstien's theroies. and ME is a future of our universe, meaning that in the past of ME Einstien existed and made his postulations on wormholes, the size of the universe and other such things. this is a fact because they mention the Atomic Bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima meaning that what we have for a past and what we have in knowledge of physics they have. just because they haven't talked about it doesn't mean that those posibilities still exist.

and "qualitfy a deliberate irrationality"? wtf. I just stated fact. the velocity (not acceleration, something you were wrong about as well) is a bigger factor in the kinetic energy of an object (which is directly proportional to its impact force) than its mass as the velocity is squared. is 6th grade math and Newtonian physics, highly simplistic stuff that is still true in the ME universe. and railguns (which aren't actual guns contrary to popular beliefe) aren't sci-fi technology they actually exist and are even used in modified formats today and is in full use in a very early conceptualizatio of a new shuttle system for NASA to use.

[jamesp81]

111987 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

111987 wrote...

So you want us to start developing brand new tech right in the middle of the war?

That is a horrible strategy...

You should review WW2 history. Jet engines, nuclear bombs, rockets, multiple types of high explosives, specialized computers, and many other technologies were developed durring that war, including many projects which did not start before the begining of the war. Tanks were invented during WW1.

That was all based on existing technology. OP is saying we should avoid using Reaper tech as much as possible, meaning mass effect technology.

That's the issue.  In WW2, the combatants refined existing tech or implemented theorized technologies.  All of this can be said to be part of the same 'tech base'.  Everything invented in WW2 was a logical progression of currently known technologies and scientific theory.

What we're proposing here is inventing an entirely new tech base from scratch.  Even finding intact ancient alien tech and reverse engineering it would likely take too long.

[jamesp81]

SandTrout wrote...

111987 wrote...

That was all based on existing technology.

Incorrect. Jet engines were pretty innovative for the era, and Reaper tech is based on may of the same principals as contemporary ME tech.

Jet engines were innovative, yes, but still a logical progression of the existing tech base.  All forms of power, up until nuclear fission, were based on combustion.  A jet engine was an innovative way to burn more fuel, generate more power, and thus make faster airplanes.  A turbine also only has one major moving part, so it had the potential for less maintenance if built of the right materials (Germany's jet engines were high maintenance because you really need chromium in that application, which they lacked due in part to strategic bombing).

In fact, from WW2, about the only invention that broke the mold was nuclear fission.  All other forms of power relied on combustion up until that point.

There are other factors involved in making the comparison to what the OP describes and WW2.  Keep in mind that the US was defended by two massive oceans that neither Germany nor Japan had the navy to cross with an army to invade the US with (though Japan was dangerously close to that point for a time).  The mainland US was also never subject to massive bombing campaign (Germany was developing bombers with the range to do it, but the war ended before these were put into service).  If it had been, there's a real possibility the US wouldn't have been able to develop the atom bomb at the time it did, or even at all.  Making uranium at that time was enormously expensive and required ridiculous amounts of infrastructure (I seem to remember the electricity requirements were off the charts, initially) which would undoubtedly be targeted for attack in any bombing campaign.

In ME3, the defenders are not going to be defended by two massive oceans where they can research tech off the mass effect tech path unmolested.  The best the defenders can hope for is to find some intact alien tech that uses principles other than mass effect that can be reverse engineered.  Even then, I think the most you'll see in the time allowed is some makeshift weaponry that may or may not tip the balance.

Modifié par jamesp81, 03 octobre 2011 - 02:07 .

[Aumata]

As others had put it developing new tech outside the realm of Mass Effect is stupid in the middle of the war. The only way for it to even possibly work if the game take period in a span of years, and we had a base develop in the fringe of space. OP idea is pretty damn stupid, saying that we shouldn't improve the tech we have or reversed engineer reaper tech because they been using it. What saved the galaxy the first time was the improvements on basing technology that the Protheans made. The only other way to do it is a DEM.