149 réponses à ce sujet

[Stardusk78]

Apart from marketing issues, I don't see why this could not be done, it would be much more convincing and would add depth to the game and coversation. Anyone agree?

[CptData]

In that case BW needs to add another (f)gay character. I don't know if they're going to do this - most likely not. There are already so many characters from ME & ME2 - why adding even more fresh faces?

Anyhow, it should be possible to have a gay-relationship with any of the old characters if needed. You still can explain they waited with their "outing" or something ...

[JeffZero]

Stardusk78 wrote...
it would be much more convincing

Er, how?

[Stardusk78]

JeffZero wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...
it would be much more convincing

Er, how?

Most people are either straight or gay, not bisexual, that's how.

[alex90c]

Funny how every non-hetero person I know IRL is bi then.

Modifié par alex90c, 02 octobre 2011 - 10:40 .

[Comsky159]

I don't really mind either way, but I'd certainly support a straight gay character instead of one that is patently Shepsexual. I do have to admit that in my mind I would have greater respect for the integrity (in a literary sense) of that character as a result.

[Athayniel]

Bioware has already said they will not add a purely homosexual character to ME3 and have no plans to do so in future games. It isn't economically feasible. Making the the LI available to both genders is a much better use of resources.

[JeffZero]

Stardusk78 wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...
it would be much more convincing

Er, how?

Most people are either straight or gay, not bisexual, that's how.

Most people are straight; that much is (relatively) clear. But there are a lot of bisexuals so no, I am not going to agree with you that it would be more "convincing".

I definitely know more bisexuals personally than I do gays/lesbians and whether that's simply personal experience or no, it influences my perception. And I just asked three more straight friends of mine their experiences and two of them agreed with me while the other remarked "uhh, I don't pay attention, really" so... I dunno, I just don't agree with you on this one.

[CptData]

alex90c wrote...

Funny how every non-hetero person I know IRL is bi then.

Funny thing is: I believe most people in a gay relationship aren't gay but bisexuals. They just had to decide at one point, since you can't have two relationships at the same time (or it is, at least, quite unhealthy).

Yes, there are people who hate the idea of being together with someone of the other sex, they're "straight gay" (pun intented) and others who can't stand the thought of having sex with someone of the same gender. But I don't believe these ppl are a majority in the mass of "homosexuals" - if you know what I mean.

[DeathDragon185]

just make everyone Bi, but if you wish to romance them make it seem they are "purely" gay

[Comsky159]

Athayniel wrote...

Bioware has already said they will not add a purely homosexual character to ME3 and have no plans to do so in future games. It isn't economically feasible. Making the the LI available to both genders is a much better use of resources.

Assuming that Vega will be gay or bi, I understand this argument and condone it with some imminent skepticism. I can't deny that I sometimes find it more difficult to take bisexual (what I can't help but perceive as player-sexual) characters seriously in Bioware games because my gut impulse is to believe that the motivation is externally driven and it bothers me a little. When dealing with a characters intrinsic structure, I'd like  know that the developer hasn't been concerned with "economics" as much as what they, as the authoring party, consider appropriate for that character. Then again sometimes bisexuality is obviously going to be right for that character, but my idealisms in terms of what I believe results in "good literature" and "dignified character construction" makes it difficult to tell. So I concede this is an insignificant concern, a product of my own insecurities, and isn't worth throwing a fuss over. He'll be great either way.

[CroGamer002]

You can discuss James Vega here.

[Stardusk78]

CptData wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Funny how every non-hetero person I know IRL is bi then.

Funny thing is: I believe most people in a gay relationship aren't gay but bisexuals. They just had to decide at one point, since you can't have two relationships at the same time (or it is, at least, quite unhealthy).

Yes, there are people who hate the idea of being together with someone of the other sex, they're "straight gay" (pun intented) and others who can't stand the thought of having sex with someone of the same gender. But I don't believe these ppl are a majority in the mass of "homosexuals" - if you know what I mean.

Not my experience at all, all gay men I know only like men and are not attracted to women at all.

[Athayniel]

Comsky159 wrote...

Athayniel wrote...

Bioware has already said they will not add a purely homosexual character to ME3 and have no plans to do so in future games. It isn't economically feasible. Making the the LI available to both genders is a much better use of resources.

Assuming that Vega will be gay or bi, I understand this argument and condone it with some imminent skepticism. I can't deny that I sometimes find it more difficult to take bisexual (what I can't help but perceive as player-sexual) characters seriously in Bioware games because my gut impulse is to believe that the motivation is externally driven and it bothers me a little. When dealing with a characters intrinsic structure, I'd like  know that the developer hasn't been concerned with "economics" as much as what they, as the authoring party, consider appropriate for that character. Then again sometimes bisexuality is obviously going to be right for that character, but my idealisms in terms of what I believe results in "good literature" and "dignified character construction" makes it difficult to tell. So I concede this is an insignificant concern, a product of my own insecurities, and isn't worth throwing a fuss over. He'll be great either way.

I prefer not to think of the LIs as bisexual. It implies that they in fact swing both ways when that is not necessary from a story point of view. There is nothing to prevent the character having one particular story path in a femShep playthrough and another in a manShep playthrough. The issue is that most people want the character to be identical in both cases. I just want them to have the same spirit and character.

Yes, it smacks of player-sexual, but until the LIs start to take the actions and character of the PC into account then they will be. And that isn't a problem because these are stories, and LIs are generally attracted to the protagonist in stories. Also remember that irrespective of te number of LIs in any particular story, most will only ever romance one of them in a playthrough. So it's not as if all of them are player-sexual, just that the story can go in that direction.

[ScotGaymer]

Stardusk78 wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...
it would be much more convincing

Er, how?

Most people are either straight or gay, not bisexual, that's how.

That's actually blatantly wrong.

According to a lifetime of studies made by Dr Kinsey most people "appear" straight and are "bisexual" in that he reckoned sexuality lay on a scale of 0 to 6 (0 being 100% straight and 6 being 100% gay) and around 10% of people were 0 and around 10% of people were 6.
Most people fall somewhere between he believed; so in actual fact most people are "bisexual" but may not identify as such.

[Stardusk78]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...
it would be much more convincing

Er, how?

Most people are either straight or gay, not bisexual, that's how.

That's actually blatantly wrong.

According to a lifetime of studies made by Dr Kinsey most people "appear" straight and are "bisexual" in that he reckoned sexuality lay on a scale of 0 to 6 (0 being 100% straight and 6 being 100% gay) and around 10% of people were 0 and around 10% of people were 6.
Most people fall somewhere between he believed; so in actual fact most people are "bisexual" but may not identify as such.

As in most people are Kinsley 1 bisexual...whatever that means?

[ScotGaymer]

How you didnt understand I dont know.

0 is 100% straight 6 is 100% gay about 20% of the population are either 0 or 6. Everyone else wether they admit it or not fall from 1 to 5 (ie 1, 2, 3, 4, 5) which are all encompassed by the label "bisexual".

Its all about degrees mate.

The terms heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual are too restrictive because sexuality is more fluid than those terms imply.

EDIT:
I do love the idea of Vega being a big butch manly gay. Be great. lol.

Shattering stereotypes is a great thing.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 02 octobre 2011 - 11:56 .

[Stardusk78]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

How you didnt understand I dont know.

0 is 100% straight 6 is 100% gay about 20% of the population are either 0 or 6. Everyone else wether they admit it or not fall from 1 to 5 (ie 1, 2, 3, 4, 5) which are all encompassed by the label "bisexual".

Its all about degrees mate.

The terms heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual are too restrictive because sexuality is more fluid than those terms imply.

EDIT:
I do love the idea of Vega being a big butch manly gay. Be great. lol.

Shattering stereotypes is a great thing.

I guess, but if I am bisexual then I have a real hard time imagining myself with a man in a sexual situation. It really turns me off actually.

Yeah, I like the idea of a gay Vega muscle bear as well, which is why I suggested it.

[ScotGaymer]

Like I said it is all about degrees.

I know a couple, two guys, one of whom self identifies as gay and the other self identifies as straight. When they first told me I thought "your talkin crap" about the guy being "str8" and being involved with a man.

They had been work mates, then friends for years. The gay one had had been involved for a few years and the guy left him for another man that he had been having an affair with; he was devestated naturally and sought comfort from his friends.
The "str8" one was really angry n upset about it all; and he started to think about why it had angered him so much and he realised he had feelings for the gay one. He denied it for a bit, avoided the other for a bit, then cos he was missing the other so much decided to man up and ask him out.

They been together 7 years. They are just in love, and its a beautiful thing.

Obviously that would make the "str8" one more properly a level 1 bisexual even if he self identifies as str8.
But my point is that people often have too strict an idea of what sexuality is and often misidentify what they are because of how society views sexuality.

Back on topic.

We need a banner for a Gay Vega lol.

[Stardusk78]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Like I said it is all about degrees.

I know a couple, two guys, one of whom self identifies as gay and the other self identifies as straight. When they first told me I thought "your talkin crap" about the guy being "str8" and being involved with a man.

They had been work mates, then friends for years. The gay one had had been involved for a few years and the guy left him for another man that he had been having an affair with; he was devestated naturally and sought comfort from his friends.
The "str8" one was really angry n upset about it all; and he started to think about why it had angered him so much and he realised he had feelings for the gay one. He denied it for a bit, avoided the other for a bit, then cos he was missing the other so much decided to man up and ask him out.

They been together 7 years. They are just in love, and its a beautiful thing.

Obviously that would make the "str8" one more properly a level 1 bisexual even if he self identifies as str8.
But my point is that people often have too strict an idea of what sexuality is and often misidentify what they are because of how society views sexuality.

Back on topic.

We need a banner for a Gay Vega lol.

Hmm...I love boobs and soft asses way too much....

[Kaiser Shepard]

I have no objections to Vega being just gay, as long as established LI's keep the sexuality they've already been given.

[ScotGaymer]

Stardusk78 wrote...


Hmm...I love boobs and soft asses way too much....

Being bisexual to any degree means that you would STILL love boobs and fembums. Bisexual DOES NOT equal Gay.

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I have no objections to Vega being just gay, as long as established LI's keep the sexuality they've already been given.

Yeh except none of the characters have actually clearly defined (except for Liara and Kelly) their sexuality. So that arguement doesnt actually make any sense.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 02 octobre 2011 - 01:41 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I have no objections to Vega being just gay, as long as established LI's keep the sexuality they've already been given.

Yeh except none of the characters have actually clearly defined (except for Liara and Kelly) their sexuality. So that arguement doesnt actually make any sense.

Sigh, the "everybody is bisexual unless they say otherwise" argument again?

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 02 octobre 2011 - 02:06 .

[Xilizhra]

Waste of resources for a relatively small niche to make them wholly gay, according to Bioware. It won't happen.

[Russalka]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Sigh, the "everybody is bisexual unless they say otherwise" argument again?

No, everything is an assumption until the character says otherwise or the writer does. I can assume that you are heterosexual, but I do not know it for a fact. My friend dates only men, I could make the annoying hetero-normative assumption that she is only into men, but she told me she was bisexual.

If it is written well and has enough realism, why can't some of them turn out to be bisexual? Arguing about fan service is redundant, because anything in a game can be viewed as such.

An on-topic. Not many want for everyone to be bisexual. Where does the assumption come from that there is a demand for it? Gay-only characters are not as economical as bisexual ones, apparently. The developers have said that everyone being bisexual is the most economical solution of all. I would not mind it, but I don't exactly want it.

Modifié par Russalka, 02 octobre 2011 - 03:14 .