149 réponses à ce sujet

[Murova]

Stardusk78 wrote...
it would be much more convincing

nope

[themonty72]

HELL NO TO HEADLINES OF THIS TOPIC

[BatmanPWNS]

But girls (or women) want to ****** on roidman!

[lazuli]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

But girls (or women) want to ****** on roidman!

It's not that hard to extrapolate.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Russalka wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Sigh, the "everybody is bisexual unless they say otherwise" argument again?

No, everything is an assumption until the character says otherwise or the writer does. I can assume that you are heterosexual, but I do not know it for a fact. My friend dates only men, I could make the annoying hetero-normative assumption that she is only into men, but she told me she was bisexual.

If it is written well and has enough realism, why can't some of them turn out to be bisexual? Arguing about fan service is redundant, because anything in a game can be viewed as such.

An on-topic. Not many want for everyone to be bisexual. Where does the assumption that there is a demand for it? Gay-only characters are not as economical as bisexual ones, apparently. The developers have said that everyone being bisexual is the most economical solution of all. I would not mind it, but I don't exactly want it.

The thing is that Mass Effect 2 hints or even suggests that Tali is a really bisexual character, but it's open to interpretation.

Tali tells femShep that she would be honored to link suits with her and her dossier in Lair of the Shadow Broker shows that she downloaded a book on human sexuality and mating regardless of gender. Now for some that dialogue (or innuendo) and note in her LOTSB dossier states that she is bisexual character and a possible candidate for a same sex relationship in ME3. 

To some other people it means Tali is not a bisexual character because she didn't come out and say to femShep that she wanted a same-sex relationship and the book in LOTSB just means she is curious about human relationships or maybe she was bored.


 

 

[shepskisaac]

Kaiser Shepard

Sigh, the "everybody is bisexual unless they say otherwise" argument again?

Sigh, you still don't get it. No one here expects BioWarte to reveal they're all bisexual and make them all avaiable. It's physically impossible, there's been 9 freaking LIs already, there's simply no time to create s/s romances for all of them in ME3 and it's been already confirmed TWICE not everyone will be available for s/s romance.

Our point is simple - it won't matter which 0/1/2/3 old character(s) they reveal to be bisexual because all of them are just as good for it. It doesn't matter if only Garrus will be available for s/s romance in ME3 out of old characters, he's just as good as anyone else. It won't matter if it's only Ashley. It won't matter if it's only Jacob & Miranda and the rest is confirmed to be straight. Etc with everyone else. Get it?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 02 octobre 2011 - 03:04 .

[ElitePinecone]

IsaacShep wrote...

Kaiser Shepard

Sigh, the "everybody is bisexual unless they say otherwise" argument again?

Sigh, you still don't get it. No one here expects BioWarte to reveal they're all bisexual and make them all avaiable. It's physically impossible, there's been 9 freaking LIs already, there's simply no time to create s/s romances for all of them in ME3 and it's been already confirmed TWICE not everyone will be available for s/s romance.

Our point is simple - it won't matter which 0/1/2/3 old character(s) they reveal to be bisexual because all of them are just as good for it. It doesn't matter if only Garrus will be available for s/s romance in ME3 out of old characters, he's just as good as anyone else. It won't matter if it's only Ashley. It won't matter if it's only Jacob & Miranda and the rest is confirmed to be straight. Etc with everyone else. Get it?

Don't start, you two. I don't want to go to sleep and wake up to another sixteen-page topic with an angry Woo at the end of it. 

Re: Vega. Not gonna happen. Probably will never happen, in any mass-market video game, until the economics of making a purely 'gay' or 'lesbian' character come out (so to speak) as making more money than it costs. 

I don't agree that it's more convincing - realism is thrown out the window anyway when romances are concerned - and bisexual characters, or quantumly-straight/gay ones, are a heck of a lot easier to justify in terms of market share. 

This topic might be nice wishful thinking, and in an ideal world it'd be awesome to have options for everyone, but it's just not going to happen. 

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 02 octobre 2011 - 03:23 .

[Agamo45]

I would like him to be straight and not a flaming ****** like Anders or Fenris, lusting after my Shepard.

[Xilizhra]

Don't start, you two. I don't want to go to sleep and wake up to another sixteen-page topic with an angry Woo at the end of it.

What, you think this topic is worth existing? Best to kill it now.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

The thing is that Mass Effect 2 hints or even suggests that Tali is a really bisexual character, but it's open to interpretation.

Tali tells femShep that she would be honored to link suits with her and her dossier in Lair of the Shadow Broker shows that she downloaded a book on human sexuality and mating regardless of gender. Now for some that dialogue (or innuendo) and note in her LOTSB dossier states that she is bisexual character and a possible candidate for a same sex relationship in ME3. 

To some other people it means Tali is not a bisexual character because she didn't come out and say to femShep that she wanted a same-sex relationship and the book in LOTSB just means she is curious about human relationships or maybe she was bored.

Automatically assuming she's into Femshep because she's looking up stuff about human sexuality, how egoistic: for all you know, she might have a thing for Kenneth, or maybe even Zaeed. I mean, dem accents.

ElitePinecone wrote...

Re: Vega. Not gonna happen. Probably will never happen, in any mass-market video game, until the economics of making a purely 'gay' or 'lesbian' character come out (so to speak) as making more money than it costs. 

You'd think money wouldn't be an issue when you've already got Martin Sheen, a bunch of other celebrities and this Clint Mansell on board.

[ScotGaymer]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I have no objections to Vega being just gay, as long as established LI's keep the sexuality they've already been given.

Yeh except none of the characters have actually clearly defined (except for Liara and Kelly) their sexuality. So that arguement doesnt actually make any sense.

Sigh, the "everybody is bisexual unless they say otherwise" argument again?

*sigh*


The hetero-normative assumption that EVERYONE is straight unless they come with a disclaimer label stating otherwise presumption again.
Even when it flys in the face of all evidence to the contrary (that most people are most likely a degree of bisexual)?

Wow, just wow.

EDIT:
No my point was that you really ought not to make such silly presumptions when you just dont know. You arent a writer or a dev for the game universe so you do not know.

I didnt say everyone was bisexual unless otherwise stated - that presumption would be as bad as your everyone is straight until otherwise stated presumption.
I said that WE DONT KNOW and you SHOULDNT ASSUME unless there is a definitive statement either way.

EDIT2:

Agamo45 wrote...

I would like him to be straight and not a flaming ****** like Anders or Fenris, lusting after my Shepard.

Reported. Hate speech.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 02 octobre 2011 - 05:03 .

[Siansonea]

Wow, what a totally new conversation that hasn't been already discussed ever.

Funny how the OP, a man(?) who likes women, wants Vega to be "gay and only gay". If you're not into the boys, what difference does it make if Vega is gay, straight, or bisexual? Do we even know for certain that Vega is even romanceable? Has BioWare said "yes, you can get with the Vega lovin'" definitively?

[Sudsaroo]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Apart from marketing issues, I don't see why this could not be done, it would be much more convincing and would add depth to the game and coversation. Anyone agree?

Umm, and how would him being bi not work? With the multiplied amount of dialogue they have in ME3, it's very likely that the romance for Male Shep will be different than for FemShep. It won't be like romancing Liara for example, where she says pretty much the same thing regardless of your gender.

Modifié par Sudsaroo, 02 octobre 2011 - 05:16 .

[FoxHound109]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

That's actually blatantly wrong.

According to a lifetime of studies made by Dr Kinsey most people "appear" straight and are "bisexual" in that he reckoned sexuality lay on a scale of 0 to 6 (0 being 100% straight and 6 being 100% gay) and around 10% of people were 0 and around 10% of people were 6.
Most people fall somewhere between he believed; so in actual fact most people are "bisexual" but may not identify as such.

Kinsey studies are beyond flawed. They should never be taken into account.

[ScotGaymer]

Siansonea II wrote...

Wow, what a totally new conversation that hasn't been already discussed ever.

Funny
how the OP, a man(?) who likes women, wants Vega to be "gay and only
gay". If you're not into the boys, what difference does it make if Vega
is gay, straight, or bisexual? Do we even know for certain that Vega is
even romanceable? Has BioWare said "yes, you can get with the Vega
lovin'" definitively?

Sorry Sian but you have surprised me here.

Why do you have a problem with a heterosexual guy being tolerant, wanting more diverse content?

FoxHound109 wrote...


Kinsey studies are beyond flawed. They should never be taken into account.

Im sorry are you a psychologist?

Last I checked most psychologists in the world accept Kinsey's conclusions about sexuality as a pretty accurate. If anything most of them reckon his scale doesnt go far enough and isnt "fine tuned" enough.

Sorry but unless you can back that up, I can only believe that you are wrong and dont know what you are talking about.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 02 octobre 2011 - 05:27 .

[FoxHound109]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Im sorry are you a psychologist?

Last I checked most psychologists in the world accept Kinsey's conclusions about sexuality as a pretty accurate. If anything most of them reckon his scale doesnt go far enough and isnt "fine tuned" enough.

Sorry but unless you can back that up, I can only believe that you are wrong and dont know what you are talking about.

No, they don't. You're actually incorrect here. They do not accept his studies in the sense you think they are. They accept them as "interesting" but not as factual or flawless. Kinsey's studies are flawed because his survey questions were poorly worded and the sample he used was not broad enough. 

Mind you, I'm NOT disagreeing with you about bisexuality being the most prevalent. I have no problem with that view (I agree with it, in fact), I just don't think Kinsey's studies are a good debating point because of the myriad of problems involved with them.

[Stardusk78]

Siansonea II wrote...

Wow, what a totally new conversation that hasn't been already discussed ever.

Funny how the OP, a man(?) who likes women, wants Vega to be "gay and only gay". If you're not into the boys, what difference does it make if Vega is gay, straight, or bisexual? Do we even know for certain that Vega is even romanceable? Has BioWare said "yes, you can get with the Vega lovin'" definitively?

I just think it would be more interesting if he just liked men.

[ScotGaymer]

FoxHound109 wrote...


No, they don't. You're actually incorrect here. They do not accept his studies in the sense you think they are. They accept them as "interesting" but not as factual or flawless. Kinsey's studies are flawed because his survey questions were poorly worded and the sample he used was not broad enough. 

Mind you, I'm NOT disagreeing with you about bisexuality being the most prevalent. I have no problem with that view (I agree with it, in fact), I just don't think Kinsey's studies are a good debating point because of the myriad of problems involved with them.

Im sorry I coulda sworn thats exactly what I said.

Maybe I communicated wrong, but I was certain I was saying that the Kinsey scale is accepted but most psychologists think its not fine tuned enough.
Ie bigger sample size, more in depth questions, etc.

But the overall conclusions, that sexuality is more like a scale than three clearly defined and divided sexualities is widely accepted as probable truth.

[Stardusk78]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

FoxHound109 wrote...


No, they don't. You're actually incorrect here. They do not accept his studies in the sense you think they are. They accept them as "interesting" but not as factual or flawless. Kinsey's studies are flawed because his survey questions were poorly worded and the sample he used was not broad enough. 

Mind you, I'm NOT disagreeing with you about bisexuality being the most prevalent. I have no problem with that view (I agree with it, in fact), I just don't think Kinsey's studies are a good debating point because of the myriad of problems involved with them.

Im sorry I coulda sworn thats exactly what I said.

Maybe I communicated wrong, but I was certain I was saying that the Kinsey scale is accepted but most psychologists think its not fine tuned enough.
Ie bigger sample size, more in depth questions, etc.

But the overall conclusions, that sexuality is more like a scale than three clearly defined and divided sexualities is widely accepted as probable truth.

If you spend all day thinking about boobs, where are you on the scale?

[Ariadnee]

And here I was hoping for a non bland or whiny male LI for my Fem Shep

[lazuli]

Stardusk78 wrote...

If you spend all day thinking about boobs, where are you on the scale?

I'm no psychologist, but I think that would depend on whether or not you have boobs of your own.

[Stardusk78]

lazuli wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

If you spend all day thinking about boobs, where are you on the scale?

I'm no psychologist, but I think that would depend on whether or not you have boobs of your own.

If you don't then are you straight?

[jeweledleah]

Sudsaroo wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Apart from marketing issues, I don't see why this could not be done, it would be much more convincing and would add depth to the game and coversation. Anyone agree?

Umm, and how would him being bi not work? With the multiplied amount of dialogue they have in ME3, it's very likely that the romance for Male Shep will be different than for FemShep. It won't be like romancing Liara for example, where she says pretty much the same thing regardless of your gender.

actualy - you are very wrong here.  so far, pretty much every bi romance in bioware games was at least 90% copy paste.  part of it is costs (its easier to record half the dialogue)  and part of it is the whole idea that male and female player characters should be equal and making romances different might undermine that equality, becasue of the whole - "this type of romance is better then the other type of romance"  heck even with copy paste dialogue it still exists (for example - there are a lot of people who beleive that Ander's romance is better as a m/m becasue its the only way he tells you about Karl- which honestly is the major difference between f/m and m/m romance in his case)

if you were right (and your proposal is my personal preference, becasue it actualy increases replayability and encourages replaying the romance) - it would be awesome.  unfortunately? what you are proposing will not happen.

[mineralica]

Stardusk78 wrote...
<...>

I just think it would be more interesting if he just liked men.

Never thought I'd say that, but I agree with this. I was rather... surprised with DA2 system with "everyone is Hawkesexual" - having character with own mind, being not afraid of state that he is homosexual and not changing this opinion under the influence of Shepard will be refreshing.

[Eyeshield21]

how long do you guys think this thread would be potentionally shut down?