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[General User]

Between Legion (a geth willing to engage constructively with organics) and potentially Shepard (an honest broker respected by both sides), the prospect of peace in the Quarian/Geth Conflict is raised. But how realistic is it? 

About a month ago there was a thread asking why the quarians wouldn't just "give peace a chance" with the geth. I pursued that thread, made a few posts, but it got me thinking. And there are a few quarian/geth threads today. So I went back to the thread, gathered up the most convincing and well-thought-out arguments (ie, my own), and created a new thread to turn the question around.

Legion once said that peace requires a willingness on both sides. I think they were more right than perhaps they realized. A lasting peace between the quarians and the geth would require not just a willingness to talk but a willingness to makes concessions by both sides. 

Normally this would be all well and good but this is particularly problematic in the case of the quarian/geth conflict because the Morning War ended in such a lopsided fashion. The geth are going to have to make the lion's share of concessions no matter what, simply because the quarians have nothing left to concede, apart from purely symbolic gestures like an apology. And how much the geth would actually value such an act is dubious at best.

As Legion indicates, the geth might be willing to give up the quarian homeworld, which isn't of any particular value to them. But there are a few problems with that. Just trading ownership of that one planet won't be enough to ensure a lasting peace. In order for the Migrant Fleet to successfully transform itself into a stable, independent, planet-based society in the Mass Effect age, the geth are going to have to cede to the quarians at least the entire quarian home system, and (almost certainly) make further territorial concessions so as the quarians have unfettered access to the relay network. 

For either the geth or the quarians trading possession of just Rannoch is a bad deal, and frankly a foolish idea. Think about it, if you were the geth would you allow your most persistent enemy to set up an armed camp in the heart of your territory? Or would you have them disarm first? And just how likely do you think the quarians would be to accept anything like that? And consider that from the quarian's point of view, talk about a siege mentality! If I were a quarian and had to choose between living in the Migrant Fleet or on Rannoch, disarmament or no, under the watchful eye of the geth, I'd choose the former, no question. 

The truth is that if the geth really want a lasting peace they will not only have to turn over to their traditional enemies strategic positions that have been integral to their defense for centuries, but they will have to abandon, relocate, or dismantle the space stations and industrial facilities that are the heart of their civilization. And that is A LOT to ask of anyone, too much in my opinion.  

All the more so in this case, because the quarians are, for all intents and purposes, a defeated enemy in the geth's optical sensors. Asking the geth to give up what they would almost certainly have to be willing to give up in order to even make a lasting peace with the quarians even possible would be, in many respects, rather akin to asking the United States and/or Mexico to give up portions of their territory, relocate millions of their citizens, and spend ungodly sums of money to create an independent Apache nation. A tremendously costly and completely pointless endeavor.

The geth almost surely are willing to give up things that they don't particularly value (as are we all), but it remains to be seen whether or not the geth are willing to give up things they do value.  So until the geth actually give some sort of indication as to what they are and are not willing to give up and/or demand from the quarians in exchange for a lasting peace (and vice versa for that matter), I am beyond hesitant to jump on the "peace bandwagon."

[CrazyCatDude]

The thing you're forgetting here is that the Geth really only want a single star, around which they are building their megastructure/dyson sphere. All the Geth really use other systems for is raw materials extraction.

Frankly, I think the Geth aren't just willing to make peace with the Quarians, but desperately want it, in the same way an abused child wants his/her parents to love him/her. At least, that's the impression I get from what Legion says.

[111987]

If the Geth all upload into their megastructure though, that would kind of solve everything wouldn't it? The Quarians get all their worlds back, and the Geth leave all of their space stations.

[shepskisaac]

The question is are Quarians finally willing to acknowledge the simple fact Geth are conscious, intelligent race with the same rights as them and that this entire mess is no one but Quarian's fault and they got exactly what they deserved for trying to kill another race?

[mango smoothie]

The Geth are very open to peace and are willing to make sacrifices to achieve peace as far as I can tell by talking to Legion. The Quarians will be the tough ones to get to have a peace as they carry a big grudge, but even if peace is obtained I think it will be more of like a Russia/America situation. Where they are willing to work together and have peace of some kind, but they will always hold Resentment to each other.

[General User]

CrazyCatDude wrote...

The thing you're forgetting here is that the Geth really only want a single star, around which they are building their megastructure/dyson sphere. All the Geth really use other systems for is raw materials extraction.

Frankly, I think the Geth aren't just willing to make peace with the Quarians, but desperately want it, in the same way an abused child wants his/her parents to love him/her. At least, that's the impression I get from what Legion says.

In the fullness fo time that may become true, but for the time being (and for the foreseable future) I think the geth are much closer to a traditonal nation with population centers, natural resources and transportation networks to protect.

I also like to compare the geth to children, though in a far less complimentary fashion.  Not to put too fine a point on it, but the idea that "all you need for peace is to stop fighting" is a rather childish concept.

[Blooddrunk1004]

IsaacShep wrote...

The question is are Quarians finally willing to acknowledge the simple fact Geth are conscious, intelligent race with the same rights as them and that this entire mess is no one but Quarian's fault and they got exactly what they deserved for trying to kill another race?

They got exactly what they deserved? Geth are intelligent and they have right to defend themselfes.
However commiting genocide on Quarian homeworld wasn't the right punishment.

[General User]

IsaacShep wrote...

The question is are Quarians finally willing to acknowledge the simple fact Geth are conscious, intelligent race with the same rights as them and that this entire mess is no one but Quarian's fault and they got exactly what they deserved for trying to kill another race?

What if they are?  What if the entire quarian race collectively issues history's biggest mea culpa?  So what? 

How should the geth respond to that?  "Well, they said they were sorry and wrote us a lovely card.  Allright let's rip the heart of our civilization out and hand it to them on a silver platter (it really was a lovely card)!"

[111987]

General User wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

The question is are Quarians finally willing to acknowledge the simple fact Geth are conscious, intelligent race with the same rights as them and that this entire mess is no one but Quarian's fault and they got exactly what they deserved for trying to kill another race?

What if they are?  What if the entire quarian race collectively issues history's biggest mea culpa?  So what? 

How should the geth respond to that?  "Well, they said they were sorry and wrote us a lovely card.  Allright let's rip the heart of our civilization out and hand it to them on a silver platter (it really was a lovely card)!"

Rannoch =/= heart of Geth civilization

[Zakatak757]

Considering Legion is technocally ALL of the orthodox Geth, yes, the are open to peace, and yes, it is worth it.

If the Quarians and 'good' Geth formed an alliance, then the they might become acceptable in the eyes of everyone else (though that isn't likely, stupid organics). Geth are probably the greatest ally that we could have against the Reapers as they are arguable the most advanced. 22km space stations, phasic bullets, dyson spheres, all beyond what any other species could accomplish.

Modifié par Zakatak757, 02 octobre 2011 - 05:42 .

[shepskisaac]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

The question is are Quarians finally willing to acknowledge the simple fact Geth are conscious, intelligent race with the same rights as them and that this entire mess is no one but Quarian's fault and they got exactly what they deserved for trying to kill another race?

They got exactly what they deserved? Geth are intelligent and they have right to defend themselfes.
However commiting genocide on Quarian homeworld wasn't the right punishment.

Yup, that's one thing Geth did wrong. Everything else is Quarian stupidity. And Geth would never kill so many Quarians if it wasn't for the fact Quarians tried to kill them all.

[CroGamer002]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

No, it's not worth it. There is nothing that the Quarian can offer to the Galaxy which the Geth cannot.

The Quarians belong to history. They together with the Batarians embody the worst and most despicable qualities of organic sapients. Their final extinction will be a glorious milestone of progress for the whole Galaxy.

That's very bigot, barbaric and ignorant response.

Please don't talk about this subjects ever again.



So, on topic.

I think Quarians should guarantied to Geth that they will not attack them ever again.
Well for that Admiral Qwib Qwib should be in charge( or one of his followers) while Admiral Xen and her followers, removed.

Well not kill them or reeducate them.
Just make sure they won't be a threat to Geth.

[naledgeborn]

I admit I did not read anything other than the thread title, but I think you posed that question in reverse. It's the Quarians you need to worry about. Geth don't lie or deceive. If Legion said they're open to peace if the statistical opportunity presents itself I'm taking the robot on it's word.

[111987]

naledgeborn wrote...

I admit I did not read anything other than the thread title, but I think you posed that question in reverse. It's the Quarians you need to worry about. Geth don't lie or deceive. If Legion said they're open to peace if the statistical opportunity presents itself I'm taking the robot on it's word.

While I agree with what you said, Geth can lie and decieve. Legion talks about an experiment they performed on organics regarding a constellation of stars that formed the face of a Salarian goddess, or something like that.

[Zakatak757]

Did anybody try bringing Legion to the Rayya?

Koris and Legion both mention they want peace.
Gerrel only cares about the Geth that are killing them now (heretics).
Xen wants to bring the Geth back to their control.

None of those opinions are hostile toward orthodox Geth.

[naledgeborn]

111987 wrote...

While I agree with what you said, Geth can lie and decieve. Legion talks about an experiment they performed on organics regarding a constellation of stars that formed the face of a Salarian goddess, or something like that.

That wasn't a lie. The Batarians/Salarians saw that information on the extranet without bothering to verify and ran with it. That's like me going on the internet and calling Wikipedia a liar.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 02 octobre 2011 - 05:48 .

[Warlocomotf]

note; this post is under the believe that the Geth are logic machines (After all, transistors are transistors).

The problem with the Geth is that they're logic machines. As sentient species we have a moral compas of some sort, it (should) make us hesitant to commit murder. If we did commit murder, we would (or should) feel guilt or sorrow.

When a logic machine sees someone or something as a threat, it can make the decision to eliminate him or it without moral difficulty, without guilt.

The Geth are also the 'perfect liars', as emotionless machines they would be immensely skilled at lying without being detected. What's more is that, without moral compass or alike, there is only a single thing that factors into deciding between telling the truth or a lie: "Which is more beneficial?".
The Geth might well agree to peace only because it would give them a better position to start war from. That's a frightening thought.

It's true that some humans / other organic species also have this "quality", you often see the illusive man displaying the exact same features- and if you'd read the Cerberus network there was a conflict between Krogan and mining corporations where mining corporations admitted defeat only to get the Krogan out of hiding for convenient nuking.

The difference with the Geth is, all Geth have this 'quality'.

This is also why I love Mordin as Character and despise The Illusive Man, Mordin worked on the Genophage, but was greatly morally conflicted because of it. He still did it, because it was the right thing to do. That's incredible and awesome character. The Illusive Man generally does what he deems as "right" with no sign of moral difficulty (and with no notable signs of a real effort in terms of looking for alternative solutions to the problem).

[JimiShep]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

No, it's not worth it. There is nothing that the Quarian can offer to the Galaxy which the Geth cannot.

The Quarians belong to history. They together with the Batarians embody the worst and most despicable qualities of organic sapients. Their final extinction will be a glorious milestone of progress for the whole Galaxy.

In a very real way I agree...

[General User]

mango smoothie wrote...

The Geth are very open to peace and are willing to make sacrifices to achieve peace as far as I can tell by talking to Legion. The Quarians will be the tough ones to get to have a peace as they carry a big grudge, but even if peace is obtained I think it will be more of like a Russia/America situation. Where they are willing to work together and have peace of some kind, but they will always hold Resentment to each other.

What sacrifices are the geth willing to make though?  All I saw was high-minded rhetoric and empty gestures (from both sides).

Besides, the Cold War thaw was a rapprochement between equal (or at least "equivalent") powers. The Quarian/Geth Conflict is completely tilted in the geth's favor. Only the mobile nature of the Migrant Fleet has prevented the geth from either dictating terms or simply exterminating the quarians en totum.

[DCarter]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Shepard already proved that both Legion and the quarian Admiralty Board are vulnerable to Charm/Intimidate, so I assume we'll be able to cause peace simply by pressing "blue" or "red".

This. Never underestimated the power of shepards enthralling voice.

[CroGamer002]

Zakatak757 wrote...

Did anybody try bringing Legion to the Rayya?

Koris and Legion both mention they want peace.
Gerrel only cares about the Geth that are killing them now (heretics).
Xen wants to bring the Geth back to their control.

None of those opinions are hostile toward orthodox Geth.

Eh, no.

Garrel only cares for the Geth that holds Rannoch.

[naledgeborn]

"Geth do not intentionally infiltrate."