202 réponses à ce sujet

[Hyperion II]

The Geth are willing. The Quarians are the problem. Some say yes (Koris), some say no (Gerrel) and some are crazy tyrants (Xen).
I do belive (and hope) that in ME3 Shepard will be able to convince both sides to lay their arms and start working for peace (or at least a truce), provided that both Tali and Legion are still alive.

[Azbeszt]

I think the Geth would give back Rannoch, they just want to uplink into the dyson sphere, and figure out the next thing later.. they wouldn't need Rannoch at all. Until the sphere is done however, they won't let the Quarians settle on Rannoch until the chances of the Quarians trying to wipe them out again is low enough.

[CrazyRah]

I would say the Geth are willing to sign a peace treaty, I think Legion say that but only if the Quarians stop being hostile

[Warlocomotf]

naledgeborn wrote...

I admit I did not read anything other than the thread title, but I think you posed that question in reverse. It's the Quarians you need to worry about. Geth don't lie or deceive. If Legion said they're open to peace if the statistical opportunity presents itself I'm taking the robot on it's word.

What exactly is going to keep a robot from lying? If statistically the outcome to lying is preferable to the outcome of being honest, a machine will lie 100 out of 100 times.

[shepskisaac]

General User wrote...

What if they are?  What if the entire quarian race collectively issues history's biggest mea culpa?  So what? 

How should the geth respond to that?  "Well, they said they were sorry and wrote us a lovely card.  Allright let's rip the heart of our civilization out and hand it to them on a silver platter (it really was a lovely card)!"

No, I agree with you. They could give them the planet, but under the condition Quarians get the resources and everything else elsewhere and do 99% of the rebuilt work themselves. Frankly, it ain't Geth's fault either Quarians were dumb enough to remain on the ships, get their immune systems fawked up and everything else instead of just settling on a new world/new system and rebuilding their civilization there, along with securing resources (for rebuilt efforts and future). In that case, eventually reclaimed Rannoch would be pretty much standard easy 'colonization project' for them like other races do, they wouldn't need to rebuilt their entire civilization from scratch, they would have the resources and whatnot.

[CroGamer002]

Hyperion II wrote...

The Geth are willing. The Quarians are the problem. Some say yes (Koris), some say no (Gerrel) and some are crazy tyrants (Xen).
I do belive (and hope) that in ME3 Shepard will be able to convince both sides to lay their arms and start working for peace (or at least a truce), provided that both Tali and Legion are still alive.

Actually, he never said no for peace.
He just want Rannoch back to Quarians, whatever it takes.

I don't see him refusing peace, though.

[111987]

naledgeborn wrote...

111987 wrote...

While I agree with what you said, Geth can lie and decieve. Legion talks about an experiment they performed on organics regarding a constellation of stars that formed the face of a Salarian goddess, or something like that.

That wasn't a lie. The Batarians/Salarians saw that information on the extranet without bothering to verify and ran with it. That's like me going on the internet and calling Wikipedia a liar.

They planted a false report on the extranet. That is deception.

Anyways this is irrelevant to the discussion.

[Zakatak757]

Warlocomotf wrote...
The Geth are also the 'perfect liars', as emotionless machines they would be immensely skilled at lying without being detected. What's more is that, without moral compass or alike, there is only a single thing that factors into deciding between telling the truth or a lie: "Which is more beneficial?".
The Geth might well agree to peace only because it would give them a better position to start war from. That's a frightening thought.

Then why don't they lie?

"Why did you use my armour?"
"...there was a hole."
"But why did you pick THAT specific piece of armor to repair yourself with?"
"...no data available."

They could have lied there. Lying would have been 'beneficial' as it Shepard would have more trust in them (because as far as s/he knows, they are telling the truth).

They/them = Legion, because he is all Geth.

[General User]

111987 wrote...

General User wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

The question is are Quarians finally willing to acknowledge the simple fact Geth are conscious, intelligent race with the same rights as them and that this entire mess is no one but Quarian's fault and they got exactly what they deserved for trying to kill another race?

What if they are?  What if the entire quarian race collectively issues history's biggest mea culpa?  So what? 

How should the geth respond to that?  "Well, they said they were sorry and wrote us a lovely card.  Allright let's rip the heart of our civilization out and hand it to them on a silver platter (it really was a lovely card)!"

Rannoch =/= heart of Geth civilization

Of course Rannoch isn't the heart of geth civilization.  Like I said in the OP, Rannoch isn't of any particular value to the geth (except possibly sentimental value), but space-stations and asteroid-based industrial centers in the area, and the Mass relays that connect them, are the the heart of geth civilization.  And if the geth really want peace with the quarians then they are going to have to give up at least a portion of those.  And that's asking too much of anyone.

[Blooddrunk1004]

IsaacShep wrote...

Yup, that's one thing Geth did wrong. Everything else is Quarian stupidity. And Geth would never kill so many Quarians if it wasn't for the fact Quarians tried to kill them all.

Quarians wanted to kill Geth because they became self aware and they started representing threat to them.
Anyone with brains would do it, "if you are going to create a war weapon or monster, you better know how to shut it down".

[Dave of Canada]

Geth leaders, if such a thing exists, would analyse the Quarians and find them insufficiently intelligent to take care of themselves after their demonstration of what they accomplished following the Geth kicking them off Rannoch.

However, they'd feel sympathy for their masters and would create a large retirement home and would take care of them until they all die out. Little Geth children will come visit from time to time, the visits do tend to stop as they grow older.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 octobre 2011 - 05:58 .

[Drudgie]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

No, it's not worth it. There is nothing that the Quarian can offer to the Galaxy which the Geth cannot.

The Quarians belong to history. They together with the Batarians embody the worst and most despicable qualities of organic sapients. Their final extinction will be a glorious milestone of progress for the whole Galaxy.

I agree.

My disguist to the Quarians goes as far back as Mass Effect 1. Just for the way they inslaved "conscious" beings.
If I am given the choice Quarians will be history. Much like how Tali and Williams have been added to my history books.

[Warlocomotf]

IsaacShep wrote...

General User wrote...

What if they are?  What if the entire quarian race collectively issues history's biggest mea culpa?  So what? 

How should the geth respond to that?  "Well, they said they were sorry and wrote us a lovely card.  Allright let's rip the heart of our civilization out and hand it to them on a silver platter (it really was a lovely card)!"

No, I agree with you. They could give them the planet, but under the condition Quarians get the resources and everything else elsewhere and do 99% of the rebuilt work themselves. Frankly, it ain't Geth's fault either Quarians were dumb enough to remain on the ships, get their immune systems fawked up and everything else instead of just settling on a new world/new system and rebuilding their civilization there, along with securing resources (for rebuilt efforts and future). In that case, eventually reclaimed Rannoch would be pretty much standard easy 'colonization project' for them like other races do, they wouldn't need to rebuilt their entire civilization from scratch, they would have the resources and whatnot.

You should read the Codex and game dialog better.

The Rannoch eco system is different from that of most other worlds (I believe it was something about no insects and different means of polination or some such) and as a result the Quarian immune system is also. As such, their colonization opportunities were scarce to begin with.

When they did try to colonize a world, they screwed up on the paperwork and the Council basically said "well because of the paperwork we're instead giving this planet to the Krogan". The Quarians have been quite actively searching for worlds they could reasonably colonize.

[Izhalezan]

CrazyRah wrote...

I would say the Geth are willing to sign a peace treaty, I think Legion say that but only if the Quarians stop being hostile

Yeah he says something along the lines of "We would need more proof that peace is desirable by the Creators, when you have thought victory was possible, you have attacked 100% of the time"

[shepskisaac]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Quarians wanted to kill Geth because they became self aware and they started representing threat to them.
Anyone with brains would do it, "if you are going to create a war weapon or monster, you better know how to shut it down".

Lol please, if we make chimpanzes self-aware tomorrow, can we just wipe them out all because "they may pose a threat to us?"

[111987]

General User wrote...

111987 wrote...

General User wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

The question is are Quarians finally willing to acknowledge the simple fact Geth are conscious, intelligent race with the same rights as them and that this entire mess is no one but Quarian's fault and they got exactly what they deserved for trying to kill another race?

What if they are?  What if the entire quarian race collectively issues history's biggest mea culpa?  So what? 

How should the geth respond to that?  "Well, they said they were sorry and wrote us a lovely card.  Allright let's rip the heart of our civilization out and hand it to them on a silver platter (it really was a lovely card)!"

Rannoch =/= heart of Geth civilization

Of course Rannoch isn't the heart of geth civilization.  Like I said in the OP, Rannoch isn't of any particular value to the geth (except possibly sentimental value), but space-stations and asteroid-based industrial centers in the area, and the Mass relays that connect them, are the the heart of geth civilization.  And if the geth really want peace with the quarians then they are going to have to give up at least a portion of those.  And that's asking too much of anyone.

But like myself and other posters have said, if they all upload into their megastructure, they don't NEED any of those things.

[Yakko77]

CrazyCatDude wrote...

The thing you're forgetting here is that the Geth really only want a single star, around which they are building their megastructure/dyson sphere. All the Geth really use other systems for is raw materials extraction.

Frankly, I think the Geth aren't just willing to make peace with the Quarians, but desperately want it, in the same way an abused child wants his/her parents to love him/her. At least, that's the impression I get from what Legion says.

Well, for the past 300 or so years, the Geth attacked organics on sight with no attempt at communication with organics from what I recall UNTIL Legion showed up.  The simple act of opening a dialogue between parties will go a long way but there is 300 years of attacks and from the Quarian POV the near genocide of their race.  But someone has to take the first step and with Legions very presence it seems the Geth are finally stepping up in a meaningful way.  I'd bet real money that by the end of ME3, the Geth have returned the Quarian homeworld in exchange for a section of space to call their own and maybe a embassy on the Citadel so communication can be maintained and hopefully preventing another Morning War.

Based on Lefion's comments to Shepard, they've been maintaining the Quarian homeworld like a war memorial because they.. "regret" for lack of a better word... what they did to the Quarians.  Even the Geth recognize things went too far even if they were justified in defending themselves initially.  I'm thinking the Geth are willing to make serious concessions in order to end the conflict and join galactic society as a whole.  The Quarians, happy to have a world, likely the homeworld, will be too pleased to want further war (let alone being practically unable to sustain one anyways) though the animosity will likely remain for several of their generations.

Modifié par Yakko77, 02 octobre 2011 - 06:04 .

[CroGamer002]

Drudgie wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

No, it's not worth it. There is nothing that the Quarian can offer to the Galaxy which the Geth cannot.

The Quarians belong to history. They together with the Batarians embody the worst and most despicable qualities of organic sapients. Their final extinction will be a glorious milestone of progress for the whole Galaxy.

I agree.

My disguist to the Quarians goes as far back as Mass Effect 1. Just for the way they inslaved "conscious" beings.
If I am given the choice Quarians will be history. Much like how Tali and Williams have been added to my history books.

Can't you see what 2 are you are writing?

You are willing to make a complete genocide of the species, just because they made mistakes?!


Can't you see how's that a horrible thing to say?

And that's the same thing for killing someone just because you don't like that person.

[111987]

IsaacShep wrote...

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Quarians wanted to kill Geth because they became self aware and they started representing threat to them.
Anyone with brains would do it, "if you are going to create a war weapon or monster, you better know how to shut it down".

Lol please, if we make chimpanzes self-aware tomorrow, can we just wipe them out all because "they may pose a threat to us?"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_of_the_Apes_%28franchise%29

But seriously, chimpanzees are not the same as an AI machine. Everyone knows how dangerous an AI can become; no organic poses the same kind of threat.

[Warlocomotf]

Zakatak757 wrote...

Warlocomotf wrote...
The Geth are also the 'perfect liars', as emotionless machines they would be immensely skilled at lying without being detected. What's more is that, without moral compass or alike, there is only a single thing that factors into deciding between telling the truth or a lie: "Which is more beneficial?".
The Geth might well agree to peace only because it would give them a better position to start war from. That's a frightening thought.

Then why don't they lie?

"Why did you use my armour?"
"...there was a hole."
"But why did you pick THAT specific piece of armor to repair yourself with?"
"...no data available."

They could have lied there. Lying would have been 'beneficial' as it Shepard would have more trust in them (because as far as s/he knows, they are telling the truth).

They/them = Legion, because he is all Geth.

Who says he did not lie? Who says there was no danger? For all you know the armor might have been equiped as a means of endearing Shepard to Legion. Saying "No data available" makes Legion seem 'human', as Legion says (if you side with Tali); "I understand, organics fear synthetics" (paraphrasing). It is thus in Legion's interest to appear similar to organics to try take that fear away.
Legion's purpose was finding Shepard- it would not be horribly far fetched for him to think of ways in which Shepard might warm up to him.

[Hyperion II]

Mesina2 wrote...

Hyperion II wrote...

The Geth are willing. The Quarians are the problem. Some say yes (Koris), some say no (Gerrel) and some are crazy tyrants (Xen).
I do belive (and hope) that in ME3 Shepard will be able to convince both sides to lay their arms and start working for peace (or at least a truce), provided that both Tali and Legion are still alive.

Actually, he never said no for peace.
He just want Rannoch back to Quarians, whatever it takes.

I don't see him refusing peace, though.

After verifying, point taken.
But still, Xen will be a problem, along with every Quarian that thinks like her.

[Blooddrunk1004]

IsaacShep wrote...

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Quarians wanted to kill Geth because they became self aware and they started representing threat to them.
Anyone with brains would do it, "if you are going to create a war weapon or monster, you better know how to shut it down".

Lol please, if we make chimpanzes self-aware tomorrow, can we just wipe them out all because "they may pose a threat to us?"

There's a big difference between chimpanze and metal machine who can walk, interact and hack into everything.

[shepskisaac]

111987 wrote...

But seriously, chimpanzees are not the same as an AI machine. Everyone knows how dangerous an AI can become; no organic poses the same kind of threat.

Adolf Hitler says hi. And the entire human history as well. We can pose just as big threat to each other as machines.

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

There's a big difference between chimpanze and metal machine who can walk, interact and hack into everything.

Just like there's a big difference between Pentagon and Eskimos.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 02 octobre 2011 - 06:09 .

[Azbeszt]

Warlocomotf wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

I admit I did not read anything other than the thread title, but I think you posed that question in reverse. It's the Quarians you need to worry about. Geth don't lie or deceive. If Legion said they're open to peace if the statistical opportunity presents itself I'm taking the robot on it's word.

What exactly is going to keep a robot from lying? If statistically the outcome to lying is preferable to the outcome of being honest, a machine will lie 100 out of 100 times.

"Geth do not infiltrate." - Legion, Geth Infiltrator

Modifié par Azbeszt, 02 octobre 2011 - 06:08 .