202 réponses à ce sujet

[General User]

111987 wrote...
Who says the megastructure is even in the same system as Rannoch though? If they are in different but neighboring systems, there's no real issue. They don't have to interact at all if they don't wish too.

I think we can all but guarantee the Sphere is not in the Rannoch starsystem.

Just don't forget about Relay access.  In order for a lasting peace to be possible between the geth and the quarians, both parties will need unfettered, independent access to the Relay Network.  Otherwise it's just another flash point that could all too easily set off a major war. 

[Blooddrunk1004]

Parents make children because they want them and love them. I don't think Quarians intended that with Geth.
How would other Geth know about it, considering Quarians wanted too destroy all of them.

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 02 octobre 2011 - 07:55 .

[Dean_the_Young]

General User wrote...
 So I went back to the thread, gathered up the most convincing and well-thought-out arguments (ie, my own)

I lol'd.

In a good way, of course.

[TobyHasEyes]

The whole 'if you created them, you can do what you like with them' argument is clearly bogus

[JimiShep]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

JimiShep wrote...

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

I wouldn't know. Just like I wouldn't know if a newly discovered race is paceful or not. Just like I don't know if my always-nice neighbour is actually always-nice or a serial killer who just waits till I invite him to sleep over so he can kill me in sleep. Does this give me the right to kill him just in case? Kill all humans just in case because in theory they all could kill me in sleep? Kill the entire newly discovered race just in case it aint' actually paceful? Kill the self-aware Geth just in case?

Actualy it does give you right too disconnect him, it's a machine in the end and you are his creator aswell. Also why are you bringing new discovered race into this? Geth were created, not discovered!

 I do not agree with how Isaacshep is trying to get his point across, but your not making any sense either! Are you saying that all creators should have to power to destroy their creations? Creations should not grow and advance on their own? Even if these creations are self-aware and intellegent are you trying to play a god like role?

Intelligent creations do not commit genocide and side with Mech- Cthulhus. And yes as long as it's my creation i can do whatever i want with them, deal with it.

I'm pretty sure humanity is an itellegent creation IN SOME KIND and we do it all the time! Why do you think that you have the right to do whatever you want with your creation when it has a mind of it's own?

[shepskisaac]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Parents create children because they want them and love them. I don't think Quarians intended that with Geth.
How would other Geth know about it, considering Quarians wanted too destroy all of them.

But some parents don't love their children. Not to mention, there are unplanned pregancies hmmmm.....

JimiShep wrote...

I'm pretty sure humanity is an
itellegent creation IN SOME KIND and we do it all the time!

Aaaaaaaaaaaand T-H-I-S!

Modifié par IsaacShep, 02 octobre 2011 - 07:57 .

[Darkelefantos1]

I'll just say no AI can potentially become a bigger pr*ck than whoever created them -.-

But seriously, if one race of the 2 had to be extinct, why would I choose the geth? Bigger military force, technologically advanced, can be deployed in any environment without catching a cold...
I just don't want to choose between them if I don't have an option to save both.

[GodWood]

Xen 'em

[Darkelefantos1]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Darkelefantos1 wrote...

I'll just say no AI can potentially become a bigger pr*ck than whoever created them -.-

So in your opinion the quarians are worse than the heretic geth, which were trying to wipe out all organic life? Yeah, that makes perfect sense...

No, I'm talking about True Geth, not about brainwashed geth. I also never claimed they were worse, just "not better".

[Team Value]

If you are going to lecture someone about history, it would be beneficial to know something about it. One of the fundamental tenants of National Socialism was that Jews are a dire threat to western civilization.

[JimiShep]

Darkelefantos1 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Darkelefantos1 wrote...

I'll just say no AI can potentially become a bigger pr*ck than whoever created them -.-

So in your opinion the quarians are worse than the heretic geth, which were trying to wipe out all organic life? Yeah, that makes perfect sense...

No, I'm talking about True Geth, not about brainwashed geth. I also never claimed they were worse, just "not better".

The point is BOTH races deserve to live!!! And the virus that the Reapers used on the Geth was pretty much indoctrination... The Heretic Geth were not thinking about what they were doing??? Legion says this... So are you going to condem the rest of the Races whose members were under the control of Reapers? Including Human beings! I think not

[GodWood]

JimiShep wrote...
The point is BOTH races deserve to live!!! And the virus that the Reapers used on the Geth was pretty much indoctrination...

Darkelefantos1 wrote...
No, I'm talking about True Geth, not about brainwashed geth. I also never claimed they were worse, just "not better".

The heretic geth were not 'brainwashed' or 'indoctrinated' they decided to follow the Reapers by themselves.

Team Value wrote...
If you are going to lecture someone about history, it would be beneficial to know something about it. One of the fundamental tenants of National Socialism was that Jews are a dire threat to western civilization.

Godwin

Have fun trying to be buddies with the Reapers.

[JimiShep]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Darkelefantos1 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Darkelefantos1 wrote...

I'll just say no AI can potentially become a bigger pr*ck than whoever created them -.-

So in your opinion the quarians are worse than the heretic geth, which were trying to wipe out all organic life? Yeah, that makes perfect sense...

No, I'm talking about True Geth, not about brainwashed geth. I also never claimed they were worse, just "not better".

The quarians created all of the geth; that includes heretic and non-heretic. You can't just choose to ignore the heretics because their existence contradicts your statement.

Hey news flash!!! The quarians did not create the Heretic Geth! Im pretty sure the Reapers had something to do with them... God Wood is right. The Heretics did choose to follow the Reapers. So I am sorry I had put out information that was incorrect. It still doesn't condem the entire race

Modifié par JimiShep, 02 octobre 2011 - 08:29 .

[Wulfram]

111987 wrote...

That proves what exactly? The message could be false, or a trap

I'm sure the Geth, with their technical expertise, could ensure the message was delivered in a way which at least established that it was worth investigating.  And yes, it could be a trap.  The response would be cautious.  But there would be a response.

Besides, why would the Geth want to associate with organics? They know how organics see them, and that co-existence wouldn't be possible. In their minds isolation is best for both parties.

People are claiming that they want peace.  Generally, the best way to secure this is to mention it to people, rather than continuing to slaughter them whenever you meet them.

And if they didn't want the galaxy to be conquered by the Reapers they could maybe have mentioned them, too.

[Thompson family]

As Legion indicates, the geth might be willing to give up the quarian homeworld, which isn't of any particular value to them. But there are a few problems with that. Just trading ownership of that one planet won't be enough to ensure a lasting peace.

There are only 17 million Quarians on the migrant fleet. Let’s assume a total population of 20 million if you count everyone on pilgrimage. Now let’s assume that, on a planet, their population doubled every 20 years. It would take more than 100 years for the homeworld population to exceed 1 billion.
Therefore:

In order for the Migrant Fleet to successfully transform itself into a stable, independent, planet-based society in the Mass Effect age, the geth are going to have to cede to the quarians at least the entire quarian home system, and (almost certainly) make further territorial concessions so as the quarians have unfettered access to the relay network.

In the first place, that’s not the case with such a small population. In the second, they only have to cede the habitable portions. The Geth don’t need planets. They live in space stations where they have access to resources in asteroids.
Third, there is no such thing as a permanent guarantee of peace forever and ever, amen. Such a demand can’t be granted by anyone.
The key point in this argument is this:

Think about it, if you were the geth would you allow your most persistent enemy to set up an armed camp in the heart of your territory? Or would you have them disarm first? And just how likely do you think the quarians would be to accept anything like that? And consider that from the quarian's point of view, talk about a siege mentality! If I were a quarian and had to choose between living in the Migrant Fleet or on Rannoch, disarmament or no, under the watchful eye of the geth, I'd choose the former, no question.

A valid view – unless there’s a Reaper invasion going on.
A probability of getting betrayed and wiped out by an old enemy still gives better odds than certain extinction from a new one.

[AnAccountWithNoName]

I don't understand why people are saying that the Quarian race deserves to die.

My kind has done so much wrong in the world, for evil men have become monsters. Does that justify my death, or the genocide of Mankind because of the sins of other people, or the evil in the past? No

And those who are saying  that the Quarians fault deserve to die...are forgetting some things. For one, it was the Quarian government that wanted to deactivate the geth, its not like every Quarian had a say in the matter (unless you think all the Quarian children were anti-geth).

I don't mind the Geth defending themselves....but they went OVERBOARD. They wiped out more then 99% of the species. That means, during the war, even when the whole Quarian military was wiped out (im sure the Quarian military never even made up half of the population), they kept killing. They killed Quarian children as well. But what do you expect from machines without morals?

So i don't understand how people can justify what the Geth did. It was WRONG.

Modifié par AnAccountWithNoName, 02 octobre 2011 - 08:34 .

[JimiShep]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

I don't understand why people are saying that the Quarian race deserves to die.

My kind has done so much wrong in the world, for evil men have become monsters. Does that justify my death, or the genocide of Mankind because of the sins of other people, or the evil in the past? No

And those who are saying  that the Quarians fault deserve to die...are forgetting some things. For one, it was the Quarian government that wanted to deactivate the geth, its not like every Quarian had a say in the matter (unless you think all the Quarian children were anti-geth).

I don't mind the Geth defending themselves....but they went OVERBOARD. They wiped out more then 99% of the species. That means, during the war, even when the whole Quarian military was wiped out (im sure the Quarian military never even made up half of the population), they kept killing. They killed Quarian children as well. But what do you expect from machines without morals?

So i don't understand how people can justify what the Geth did. It was WRONG.

The Geth did go overboard... but the Quarians would have killed 100 percent of their race too. You can't just look at this situation form a Quarian point of view.

[Darkelefantos1]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Darkelefantos1 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Darkelefantos1 wrote...

I'll just say no AI can potentially become a bigger pr*ck than whoever created them -.-

So in your opinion the quarians are worse than the heretic geth, which were trying to wipe out all organic life? Yeah, that makes perfect sense...

No, I'm talking about True Geth, not about brainwashed geth. I also never claimed they were worse, just "not better".

The quarians created all of the geth; that includes heretic and non-heretic. You can't just choose to ignore the heretics because their existence contradicts your statement.

They don't. I pointed out my opinion on geth and quarians. Seeing as I don't have any more experience than anybody else when it comes to AIs, you can hardly take anything I said as a statement. 

[Dean_the_Young]

JimiShep wrote...

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

I don't understand why people are saying that the Quarian race deserves to die.

My kind has done so much wrong in the world, for evil men have become monsters. Does that justify my death, or the genocide of Mankind because of the sins of other people, or the evil in the past? No

And those who are saying  that the Quarians fault deserve to die...are forgetting some things. For one, it was the Quarian government that wanted to deactivate the geth, its not like every Quarian had a say in the matter (unless you think all the Quarian children were anti-geth).

I don't mind the Geth defending themselves....but they went OVERBOARD. They wiped out more then 99% of the species. That means, during the war, even when the whole Quarian military was wiped out (im sure the Quarian military never even made up half of the population), they kept killing. They killed Quarian children as well. But what do you expect from machines without morals?

So i don't understand how people can justify what the Geth did. It was WRONG.

The Geth did go overboard... but the Quarians would have killed 100 percent of their race too. You can't just look at this situation form a Quarian point of view.

By what mental defect is what you quoted only 'a Quarian point of view'?

[JimiShep]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

JimiShep wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Darkelefantos1 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Darkelefantos1 wrote...

I'll just say no AI can potentially become a bigger pr*ck than whoever created them -.-

So in your opinion the quarians are worse than the heretic geth, which were trying to wipe out all organic life? Yeah, that makes perfect sense...

No, I'm talking about True Geth, not about brainwashed geth. I also never claimed they were worse, just "not better".

The quarians created all of the geth; that includes heretic and non-heretic. You can't just choose to ignore the heretics because their existence contradicts your statement.

Hey news flash!!! The quarians did not create the Heretic Geth! Im pretty sure the Reapers had something to do with them...

The Reapers influenced them to become heretics, but they didn't create the AIs in the first place. The geth that became heretics were, in fact, created by the quarians, just as every geth was.

That is true I was wrong, but the Quarians and the True Geth should not to be blamed for the actions of the Heretic Geth. Legion says that it was only a few that decided to follow the Reapers. Just my opinion

[111987]

General User wrote...

111987 wrote...
Who says the megastructure is even in the same system as Rannoch though? If they are in different but neighboring systems, there's no real issue. They don't have to interact at all if they don't wish too.

I think we can all but guarantee the Sphere is not in the Rannoch starsystem.

Just don't forget about Relay access.  In order for a lasting peace to be possible between the geth and the quarians, both parties will need unfettered, independent access to the Relay Network.  Otherwise it's just another flash point that could all too easily set off a major war. 

If the system the Geth are in have a secondary relay, then they do have access to the relay network. If not, I think sharing the relay shouldn't be too much of an issue. This of course is assuming the Geth ever decide to leave their megastructure.