25 réponses à ce sujet

[m2abrams]

So, i've completed a couple play throughs, and used 2-h and dual wielding weapon styles.  That dual wielding does more dps cant be denied.  my question is this, am i the only one who thinks 2-h warriors could use a serious rework?  especially their middle talent row.

[Looy]

I find them okay, the only thing I don't get is there seems to be zero difference between mighty blow and critical blow.

[rumination888]

Min/max your 2H warrior. Dump all of your attributes into strength and use a maul.
You'll kill elites and bosses faster than a min/maxed DW warrior and nearly one-round everything else with Two-Hand Sweep.

Be sure not to turn on Precise Striking as the bonuses it gives doesn't outweigh the disadvantage it brings.

[Evange]

You don't need to pump Dex? Won't the hit rate be really low?

[MMkain]

Evange wrote...

You don't need to pump Dex? Won't the hit rate be really low?

Strength improves melee hit.

[yaghr]

Is Precise Striking really that bad?

[5Warlocks]

2H Warriors have a good niche as a high DPS tank for status effect spamming battles. They can become immune to knockdown much earlier and with less investment than a shield tank, and are the ONLY spec with stun immunity. They do awesome against Dragons and Ogres in particular.



If you fear your damage isn't cutting it, try out Haste.

[WillieStyle]

Maybe we can turn this thread into a discussion of how to optimize your 2H warrior.



Haste seems to be a must since you don't get momentum. Getting the blood haste ability (don't remember the name) also seems like a must.



On the one hand, indomitable makes you an attractive tank, on the other, maximizing strength at the expense of dex means your defence is poor. This might hamper you at higher dificulty levels but I haven't tried it out yet.



Of the mage weapon enchants, only Telekenetic weapons seems worth it as it's the only one that scales with weapon damage. Slow attack speed of 2 Handers makes flaming/freezing weapons less attractive. Same could be said for weapon runes. I really think 2 Handed weapons should get more than 3 rune slots, but that's an argument for another day.



Stamina is key. Unlike dual wielders, your instant attacks actually animate faster than your regular swings. So being able to spam them on cooldown may boost your dps.



Which specializations are best? I'm thinking Berserker/Reaver or Berserker/Champion. The latter adds nice tank utility although the +hit from rally is wasted on you because of your sky-high strength. The former may produce higher dps. I've never used the Reaver spec. How does it fare dps wise?



With all this specialization, you probably still won't approach the damage of a dual-wield warrior, but stun-knockdown imunity is great. Makes you a good dragon/ogre tank and increases your in-game dps by limiting times where you're stuck doing no damage. This is especially true in the late game were every other fight includes either multple archers chaining scatter shot or a knockdown happy bosses.

[Altharas]

My playthrough was done as a 2h warrior. Pumped the str stat with all my level ups except for when i needed cunning for skills. I have yet to play a dw warrior (don't see the attraction when a rogue can do it better, correct me if i'm wrong). I was using Summer Sword / Yusaris depending on foes, 3 grandmaster elemental runes and averaging 100-140 a swing with Powerful Swings and Beserk (Indomitable isn't worth the stamina cost for a DPS boost, only used it for knockdown fights). I was playing the goody-two-shoes so i was a champion and not reaver, so the DPS could have been higher, but even without Reaver everything just fell over as i looked at it.



It's all about timing your abilities straight after your auto hits, so you swing in a rythym of Auto-Ability-Auto-Ability. I couldn't complain about the DPS as even though i was the best geared in my party, i was the top DPS. Like i said, yet to do a DW warrior so i have no idea how they'll stack up, but i have a hard time beliving i'll top the DPS i was managing across the board plainly due to the armour pen.



However, the 2h tree is far from complete imo. For one, as someone pointed out before, Critical Strike and Mighty Blow appear to be EXACTLY the same apart from animation, and i found Mighty Blow's to be faster. Also, the debuff attacks, Sunder Arms and Sunder Armour are by far the best DPS ability you have since you actually strike twice instead of the once of the other abilities.



Thoughts?

[Suron]

^ no rogue can't do it better..they get the exact same attacks..only warrior wears heavier armor and doesn't have to waste the time to move behind the target for backstabs..only to have the mob turn to face them..



overall warriors are better DW'ers

[Altharas]

But rogue's get lethality, evasion and MUCH higher defence, and thus more staying power especially in knockdown fights. Warriors still have to flank for the attack bonus unless you're tanking as dual-weapon. Like i said, still yet to try a dual-wield warrior but looking on paper i can't see it being better.

[m2abrams]

i never liked the talent shattering blos or destroyer. both seemed thrown in. i mean firstly, there are maybe 30 golems in the game..a whole talent just for that? and the fact that destroyer doesnt't stack...well then what it the point of having it apply o n every hit? and yes i agree, crit. strike needs a re-work.

[Discobird]

WillieStyle wrote...

Of the mage weapon enchants, only Telekenetic weapons seems worth it as it's the only one that scales with weapon damage. Slow attack speed of 2 Handers makes flaming/freezing weapons less attractive.

Wait what? How does TK weapons scale?

[WillieStyle]

Discobird wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

Of the mage weapon enchants, only Telekenetic weapons seems worth it as it's the only one that scales with weapon damage. Slow attack speed of 2 Handers makes flaming/freezing weapons less attractive.

Wait what? How does TK weapons scale?

Sigh! I'm stupid.  It's a straight +constant to damage reduction not a percentage. 
You're right it doesn't scale.

[Discobird]

 Aw man you had my hopes up for a second there  

[WillieStyle]

Is it just me or are Mauls indisputably the best weapons to use for a 2H warrior?



You get better attack speed than a greataxe meaning more enchant/rune/poison damage.

While the attack speed is worse than that of a great sword, you make up for it with better armor pen and a 20% higher attribute modifier.

[WillieStyle]

Discobird wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

Of the mage weapon enchants, only Telekenetic weapons seems worth it as it's the only one that scales with weapon damage. Slow attack speed of 2 Handers makes flaming/freezing weapons less attractive.

Wait what? How does TK weapons scale?

A few questions Discobird (or anyone else who knows the answers):

Do crits multiply damage from armor pen?  I'm guessing the answer is no.
Do activated abilities benefit from the player's armor pen?  I'm guessing yes.
Do activated abilities trigger elemental weapon enchants? I'm pretty sure the answer is no as they don't seem to trigger them for my dual-wielding rogue.

If activated abilities benefit from armor pen, then TK is still the best optioin for 2H warriors.

[m2abrams]

i believe Tk does scale. as i recall, the armor penetration bonus scales with the caster's magic. thats why for me at least, it always made sense to go for great sword for high end damage and speed and use tk weapons to make the difference in armor penetration

[Korva]

Both the two-handed talent tree and the weapon & shield talent tree do look a bit ... uninspired, yes. That combined with the slow swing speed, which makes missing a REAL pain, rather puts me off making my noble dwarf go with two-handers when her turn to be played comes around.

[WillieStyle]

m2abrams wrote...

i believe Tk does scale. as i recall, the armor penetration bonus scales with the caster's magic. thats why for me at least, it always made sense to go for great sword for high end damage and speed and use tk weapons to make the difference in armor penetration

How much armor pen does tk give? Unless it's enough to bring your enemies down to 0, seems like great mauls are still better.
Also, the extra 20% str modifier is too good to pass up.

[Discobird]

WillieStyle wrote...

Do crits multiply damage from armor pen? 

Nope

Do activated abilities benefit from the player's armor pen? 

Yep, since as far as I can tell they all call the function Combat_Damage_GetAttackDamage() as a starting point for calculating damage--the same function used to calculate damage for autoattacks.

Do activated abilities trigger elemental weapon enchants?

No it doesn't seem like they do.

If activated abilities benefit from armor pen, then TK is still the best optioin for 2H warriors.

I guess that depends on how often you use activated abilities. Flaming Weapons's bonus damage can get pretty high (someone said +20-30 damage) while TK seems to cap at 10.

[m2abrams]

um, tk gives a lot. i've seen it give upwards of 30 armorer penetration. and yes the 20% increase from str is nice, but the slower swing time means those painful misses hurt even more. personally i think all 2-h weapons should receive a bigger bonus from str..and maybe have an inherent bonus to hit. also runes are very much less effective on large weapons for offensive purposes.

[BewareTheDrow]

Whats strange is that the manual itself explicitly states that two handed weapons get a 50% bonus to their strength contribution to damage, but it doesn't seem like they do in game. Simply having that 50% bonus for the damage increase would make the difference in my opinion.

[Discobird]

You're right, TK does scale higher with spellpower than I thought. Regardless, even if TK scales as well as flaming weapons, it ceases to add damage when the enemy runs out of armor. I think there are more enemies with low armor than high fire resistance in this game.

[m2abrams]

thats a good point..unless it deals with negative armor, but i doubt that. however, since 2-h weapons hit so freakin slow and a lot of 2-h dps comes from abilities (which i dont think use elemental damage, but do use Ap) wouldn't a higher Ap grant more overall damage than the elemental damage bonus?