157 réponses à ce sujet

[Ariella]

Fidget6 wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Work is what I do at my job. Fun is what video games are for.

If you want to work, go get another job. If you want to feel a strong sense of accomplishment having over come a great challenge, volunteer for a social cause. Do something real and important.

I want to play games that entertain me. If I have to play any section of a game more than four or five times to beat it, the game is broken.

THIS so much! I wish more people had this mindset so that more games were designed for us "story-driven" players. I don't want to see the same cutscene over and over while trying to defeat a particularly pesky enemy. That was really the worst thing about the Final Fantasy series for me. As much as I loved them, by the time I beat some of the bosses I was so frustrated I didn't even feel like playing anymore.... (Yunalesca in FFX anyone?)

Oh God, Yunalesca was a... well, you know. And God forbid we forget the nightmare that was Sokol Keep's mass battle in the chapel in Pool of Radiance.

Give me a story driven game where combat isn't the be all end all of the game and I'll be happy. It's one of the things I always liked about Bioware games.

[PinkShoes]

Fidget6 wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Work is what I do at my job. Fun is what video games are for.

If you want to work, go get another job. If you want to feel a strong sense of accomplishment having over come a great challenge, volunteer for a social cause. Do something real and important.

I want to play games that entertain me. If I have to play any section of a game more than four or five times to beat it, the game is broken.

THIS so much! I wish more people had this mindset so that more games were designed for us "story-driven" players. I don't want to see the same cutscene over and over while trying to defeat a particularly pesky enemy. That was really the worst thing about the Final Fantasy series for me. As much as I loved them, by the time I beat some of the bosses I was so frustrated I didn't even feel like playing anymore.... (Yunalesca in FFX anyone?)

Thats why there is casual for gamers who dont want to be challenged and just enjoy the story. Thats why there are different modes. Personally i want to be challenged which is why i play on hard/nightmare, but hard/nightmare didnt feeling difficult at all. The different game modes should cater to different players. some want to play it easy and enjoy the story, some want to enjoy the story and then be challenged to the combat and some dont even care about the story and just want to fight.

[PinkShoes]

Sutekh wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

Mark of the Dragon wrote...
I'm sorry its hard to take a game serious when it looks like your watching cartoon network.

<insert gory blood mage picture here>

Mythal's left pinky nail! I wonder what kind of cartoon they're airing on Cartoon Network these days 

Yeah, shwoing this picture actually hinders your point rather than strengthening it. Something this ridiculous can only be founf in an Anime series on latenight CN.

Really? And, pray tell, what is my point that is so forcefully hindered by this picture?

(Hint: It has to do with the topic of the thread, oddly enough, which isn't "DA2 is a profound and sophisticated work of art", and I'm pretty sure the person I replied to didn't have "late night" in mind, because if so, what would be their point?).

I think what Mark of the Dragon meant was Dragon age should have a more realitic feel while its graphics looked a little too cartoonish.

But everyone does have their opinion on the grapics. Personally i would like them to have a bit more realistic  and i do agree with Mark of the dragon they did at times look a bit took cartoonish. I think the graphics just need to be polished a bit more, DA has a very nice style and i wouldnt want that style taken away, but polished? yes.

[Ariella]

PinkShoes wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Work is what I do at my job. Fun is what video games are for.

If you want to work, go get another job. If you want to feel a strong sense of accomplishment having over come a great challenge, volunteer for a social cause. Do something real and important.

I want to play games that entertain me. If I have to play any section of a game more than four or five times to beat it, the game is broken.

THIS so much! I wish more people had this mindset so that more games were designed for us "story-driven" players. I don't want to see the same cutscene over and over while trying to defeat a particularly pesky enemy. That was really the worst thing about the Final Fantasy series for me. As much as I loved them, by the time I beat some of the bosses I was so frustrated I didn't even feel like playing anymore.... (Yunalesca in FFX anyone?)

Thats why there is casual for gamers who dont want to be challenged and just enjoy the story. Thats why there are different modes. Personally i want to be challenged which is why i play on hard/nightmare, but hard/nightmare didnt feeling difficult at all. The different game modes should cater to different players. some want to play it easy and enjoy the story, some want to enjoy the story and then be challenged to the combat and some dont even care about the story and just want to fight.

Yes, but admitting one plays on casual makes one a second class citizen in the eyes of a lot of people who see combat as THE game. I'm not saying everybody who enjoys combat is like that, but there are more than a few of them. And not all easy/casual combat levels are equal. The casual in DA2 and DAO is fine, but the one in TW2 just is terrible. You souldn't have to reload seven times in several minutes on your first fight in casual mode, which is what I was forced to do with TW2, so I tend to be a little raw when people start to focus on combat as the biggest part of an RPG, and that's not just for computers either...

That being said, yes, there needs to be a balance, and each side should respect the other. I know Firky mentioned a toggle for FF. I wonder if Bioware could modify the engine so rather than instead of a "level" like nightmare, there's be a combat tab where people would be able to select from a menu of different difficulty options like Friendly Fire, or Higher HP, or better resistances etc... So rather than just casual/normal/hard/nightmare you have a mix and match option that better customizes to your play style. It's just a thought...

[Firky]

I think being able to customise combat like that would be cool.

As long as there was a default setting for "how it was meant to be played" and then you could tweak it from there if you really wanted to.

I wish DAII had had like a "classic play" toggle so I could have turned off all tactics and behaviours in one hit. I just wanted to play it like Baldur's Gate with literally no-one doing anything unless I told them to - maybe autoretaliate, but that's it. It took me ages to figure out how to actually do that - still not perfect, depending on character selected etc.

PS. I had to turn Witcher 2 down to the bottom for that dragon minigame - if it even made any difference. I still got squished 7 times. And I got squished 7 times on my 2nd play thru too.

Modifié par Firky, 06 octobre 2011 - 10:21 .

[PinkShoes]

Yes, but admitting one plays on casual makes one a second class citizen in the eyes of a lot of people who see combat as THE game. I'm not saying everybody who enjoys combat is like that, but there are more than a few of them. And not all easy/casual combat levels are equal. The casual in DA2 and DAO is fine, but the one in TW2 just is terrible. You souldn't have to reload seven times in several minutes on your first fight in casual mode, which is what I was forced to do with TW2, so I tend to be a little raw when people start to focus on combat as the biggest part of an RPG, and that's not just for computers either...

That being said, yes, there needs to be a balance, and each side should respect the other. I know Firky mentioned a toggle for FF. I wonder if Bioware could modify the engine so rather than instead of a "level" like nightmare, there's be a combat tab where people would be able to select from a menu of different difficulty options like Friendly Fire, or Higher HP, or better resistances etc... So rather than just casual/normal/hard/nightmare you have a mix and match option that better customizes to your play style. It's just a thought...

Firky wrote...

I think being able to customise combat like that would be cool.

As
long as there was a default setting for "how it was meant to be played"
and then you could tweak it from there if you really wanted to.

I
wish DAII had had like a "classic play" toggle so I could have turned
off all tactics and behaviours in one hit. I just wanted to play it like
Baldur's Gate with literally no-one doing anything unless I told them
to - maybe autoretaliate, but that's it. It took me ages to figure out
how to actually do that - still not perfect, depending on character
selected etc.

PS. I had to turn Witcher 2 down to the bottom for
that dragon minigame - if it even made any difference. I still got
squished 7 times. And I got squished 7 times on my 2nd play thru too.

I agree with both that. The combat should have causal/normal/hard/nightmare but then if we wanted we coudl tweak things like like FF and such.

I am one of those players that wnat every aspect of the game to be amazig. I wnat the story to blow me away and i want the characters to touch my heart and i want the combat to feel meaty.

Modifié par PinkShoes, 06 octobre 2011 - 10:39 .

[ScotGaymer]

Ive always thought that the "DA2 looks cartoony" arguement is beyond idiotic given how blatantly untrue it is.

Ive NEVER seen a cartoon look like Dragon Age. Ever.

It has a very tenous very vague connection to anime and ONLY because of how Fenris looks; he looks very much like an Anime/Final Fantasy character. Acts like one too lol.
But it is an erroneous assumption in western culture to assume that Anime and Cartoon are same things; they arent. And even then DA2 isnt very anime either except for the aforementioned Fenris connection.

Calling it cartoony when you really mean "low res, unrealistic, and childish" is not at all accurate either because cartoons arent always childish either take Family Guy and South Park as examples of "mature" (depends on your definition of mature, I personally find South Park puerile) cartoon.

Cartoony isnt necessarily a bad thing. Many games have a cartoony feel but are rather mature in outlook, Monkey Island would be an example.

The textures and art style of Dragon Age 2 should be called what it is; low res, uninspired, lacking massively in detail, uniform, boring, blocky, unrealistic, and rather childish. I mean lets be accurate people, lets call a spade a spade.

Cartoony is the wrong word simply because Cartoony doesnt necessarily mean bad or childish.

Lets stop using buzzwords as a catchall moniker for something we do not personally like.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 06 octobre 2011 - 11:08 .

[tmp7704]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Cartoony is the wrong word simply because Cartoony doesnt necessarily mean bad or childish.

Cartoony means "ludicrously simplistic, unrealistic, or one-dimensional" (merriam-webster) Since the new DA style puts focus on both over-the-top unrealistic "cool" action and simplified settings, it seems like an accurate way to refer to it using a single word. Whether you personally hate it or not.

[seraphymon]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Ive always thought that the "DA2 looks cartoony" arguement is beyond idiotic given how blatantly untrue it is.

Ive NEVER seen a cartoon look like Dragon Age. Ever.

It has a very tenous very vague connection to anime and ONLY because of how Fenris looks; he looks very much like an Anime/Final Fantasy character. Acts like one too lol.
But it is an erroneous assumption in western culture to assume that Anime and Cartoon are same things; they arent. And even then DA2 isnt very anime either except for the aforementioned Fenris connection.

Calling it cartoony when you really mean "low res, unrealistic, and childish" is not at all accurate either because cartoons arent always childish either take Family Guy and South Park as examples of "mature" (depends on your definition of mature, I personally find South Park puerile) cartoon.

Cartoony isnt necessarily a bad thing. Many games have a cartoony feel but are rather mature in outlook, Monkey Island would be an example.

The textures and art style of Dragon Age 2 should be called what it is; low res, uninspired, lacking massively in detail, uniform, boring, blocky, unrealistic, and rather childish. I mean lets be accurate people, lets call a spade a spade.

Cartoony is the wrong word simply because Cartoony doesnt necessarily mean bad or childish.

Lets stop using buzzwords as a catchall moniker for something we do not personally like.

This was argued before in another thread. But i find cartoony or cartoonish the perfect word for DA2 art style. Even if  you can call it all those other things such as low res, or uninspired, cartoony at least how i view it, Is a simple word to describe all that and more, without having to list all those other different features.

The fact that fenris looks like an FF character certainly adds to it, but even without him i would clasify it as cartoony. Also there no techincal different between anime and cartoons. None. Anime is only Japanese cartoons. The only differences are because of how or what anime contains, which is different from you typical looney tunes. But the style is honestly no different.

DA2 isn't a cartoon, which is why the word cartoony is used commonly, as to me it changed and headed that direction since DAO, and not just for DA2.

I agree that cartoony isn't necessarily a bad thing, as i enjoy games and rpgs that use that sort of style. However like other things when you go from a more realistic style and setting like DAO and move into this cartoony style it doesnt appeal or makes it scream eye candy for me. I realize the devs have their vision of DA no matter, but to me DA should not even go into the cartoony direction at all.

[Sylvius the Mad]

FitScotGaymer's point is that etymologically, "cartoony" doesn't make sense. It should mean "in the style of a cartoon", except cartoons aren't constrained to just one style.

Oh, and I think Webster makes awful dictionaries. Noah Webster was wrong-headed right from the start, and his dictonaries have never corrected his errors.

[seraphymon]

I realise that. But thats where the word cartoony comes in. No its not really a word, but i realise there are more styles to cartoon than just one. I view it the same as colors, theres many different shades of a certain color, so if there was a really abstract color of blue persay, the first thing that comes to mind would be bluish, not really blue, but in that area.

[The Executioner]

I don't see that much difference between Morrigan and female hawk in terms of character design. I like the rendereing of the characters in DA2 it's just there were only two or three characters i really liked in DA2. I really don't think cartoony describes anything unless cellshaded other than a negative term for those that dislike that game .

Modifié par The Executioner, 07 octobre 2011 - 05:47 .

[tmp7704]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

FitScotGaymer's point is that etymologically, "cartoony" doesn't make sense. It should mean "in the style of a cartoon", except cartoons aren't constrained to just one style.

With a caveat there's general perception/concept/expectation in the population, of what a typical cartoon style is like. After all there's certain reasons why cartoons are instantly recognizable from regular movies -- it's based on their common, shared features.

In a way it's not different from calling something "car-like" e.g. While cars come in different sizes and shapes, the word is still going to provide you with idea of what kind of features something car-like may have.

[ScotGaymer]

My point is that you guys who accusing the game of being cartoony, being like a cartoon in its art style, are using the word wrongly.

Very wrongly.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/cartoon

Cartoon means this "a sketch or drawing, usually humorous, as in a newspaper or periodical, symbolizing, satirizing, or caricaturing some action, subject, or person of popular interest."
Thus DA2 does not fit the definition as its art style does not satarize, symbolize, or caricature anything.

You guys are using it to mean anything that is unrealistic and that you dont like.

Wrong!

EDIT:
Sorry guys, dont mean to be rude but you guys are just factually wrong.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 07 octobre 2011 - 12:25 .

[Maconbar]

So we have moved from the pointless "What is an rpg?" to the ridiculous "What is the definition of cartoony?"

Modifié par Maconbar, 07 octobre 2011 - 12:53 .

[Ariella]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

My point is that you guys who accusing the game of being cartoony, being like a cartoon in its art style, are using the word wrongly.

Very wrongly.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/cartoon

Cartoon means this "a sketch or drawing, usually humorous, as in a newspaper or periodical, symbolizing, satirizing, or caricaturing some action, subject, or person of popular interest."
Thus DA2 does not fit the definition as its art style does not satarize, symbolize, or caricature anything.

You guys are using it to mean anything that is unrealistic and that you dont like.

Wrong!

EDIT:
Sorry guys, dont mean to be rude but you guys are just factually wrong.

Actually, you're both right, with connotation and denotation, but getting back to topic. Cartoony to me makes me think Animaniacs or the Warner cartoons. Da2 doesn't really have anything like that.

[Pygmali0n]

FitScotGaymer: cartoon = cartoon; cartoony = not a cartoon but like a cartoon.

I would say that DA2 satirises RPGs but would that be throwing wood on the fire?

So you're not referring to Renaissance cartoons?

Modifié par Pygmali0n, 07 octobre 2011 - 02:30 .

[tmp7704]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Cartoon means this "a sketch or drawing, usually humorous, as in a newspaper or periodical, symbolizing, satirizing, or caricaturing some action, subject, or person of popular interest."
Thus DA2 does not fit the definition as its art style does not satarize, symbolize, or caricature anything.

Check out that definition further.

adjective
5. resembling a cartoon or caricature: The novel is full of predictable, cartoon characters, never believable as real people.

like i replied already, DA2 style relies strongly on simplification and exaggeration. And these are core elements of cartoon and caricature.

Modifié par tmp7704, 07 octobre 2011 - 02:36 .

[Wulfram]

I don't think the art style is particularly simplified, on the whole.

DA2 doesn't look anything like any cartoon I've seen, so I really don't see it. To me, if any recent Bioware game gives me that vibe it's ME1 - whose look I also really like.

Some of the characterisation I might call cartoonish, though.

[ScotGaymer]

Did you people even read what I typed?

It doesnt resemble a cartoon. It doesnt caraciture, or satarize, or symbolize anything. At all.

Jeez.

Once again "unrealistic" does not equal "cartoony" or "cartoon-like".

EDIT:
Why am I even bothering?

This is like trying to teach a pig to sing. Pointless.

Moving on from that then. I agree with the OP that the game doesnt "feel" as adult or mature as Dragon Age Origins does, and a good whack of that is down to the art style sucking hard.
The game being litterred with low res undetailed backgrounds, being infliced by the ClownSpawn, and DonkeyKongSpawn, having a whole host of useless and descriptionless items in game that do nothing, etc, doesnt help at all.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 07 octobre 2011 - 03:11 .

[Pygmali0n]

Yep, best not to bother, you don't get it, and when you learn grammar and how to spell, or even just debate without throwing a fit, then we'll start trying to understand your own personal definitions and limitations of words.

That said the rest of your last post is spot on.

[ScotGaymer]

Pygmali0n wrote...

Yep, best not to bother, you don't get it, and when you learn grammar and how to spell, or even just debate without throwing a fit, then we'll start trying to understand your own personal definitions and limitations of words.

That said the rest of your last post is spot on.

It is an internet forum. I am not writing in essay.

I wasn't throwing a fit; and there was absolutely no need to get insulting.

And they aren't personal definitions. They are definitions lifted directly from dictionary dot com. Perhaps I should email them to let them know that some idiot on BSN thinks that they are wrong and he is right.

Grow up.

[Pygmali0n]

'Jeez'
'Why am I even bothering?'
'This is like teaching a pig to sing'
'Grow up'

That classes as a fit. Oh, you're trying to teach us about English in a casual, disregarding English way? You don't even understand your own words. You're also ignoring points made by others which don't fit in with your world.

adjective
5. resembling a cartoon or caricature: The novel is full of predictable, cartoon characters, never believable as real people.

I could actually reach for a hefty edition of a real Oxford dictionary but let's just learn to live with being contradicted, hey?

Modifié par Pygmali0n, 07 octobre 2011 - 03:56 .

[tmp7704]

Wulfram wrote...

I don't think the art style is particularly simplified, on the whole.

The devs themselves said they've simplified on purpose the backgrounds on the whole, and that's one of key points of the 'new' art style. This sort of selective focus on characters, with backgrounds being secondary if present at all, is pretty common element in the cartoons.

DA2 doesn't look anything like any cartoon I've seen, so I really don't see it.

I think it's more, it feels like one. The "iconic appearances", shallow storylines, flat characters, puerile obsession with "awesome" etc. Combine that all with the new art style and the overall impression comes very close to...



just take away cell-shading and add ridiculous blood splatters.

[ScotGaymer]

Whatever.

Go away already troll.

Dont need to explain myself to someone who felt the need to get immediately insulting when someone got a bit frustrated with people not reading what they typed.