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[1136342t54_]

We could assume that Quarians went for a scorched Earth solution and failed miserably. I won't say Geth didn't attack non combatants because they would have to do in the beginning of the war but we can't discount the likelihood of the Quarians and possibly the Geth using WMDs. WMDs could easily allow for a large part of the Quarian species to be destroyed.

Edit: It makes more sense to say that WMDs were used for large portions of the population to be destroyed so quickly. Even Rannoch was ruined in the war.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 06 octobre 2011 - 11:33 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

GodWood wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
If the geth hadn't rebelled and subsequently isolated themselves, the quarians would've eventually used their source of cheap labor as an army against the rest of the galaxy, cue human genocide in 2157.

I see.
So where am I wrong?

In assuming the geth should be exterminated for what they've done.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 06 octobre 2011 - 11:33 .

[Collider]

1136342t54 wrote...

We could assume that Quarians went for a scorched Earth solution and failed miserably. I won't say Geth didn't attack non combatants because they would have to do in the beginning of the war but we can't discount the likelihood of the Quarians and possibly the Geth using WMDs. WMDs could easily allow for a large part of the Quarian species to be destroyed.

That would be a pretty obvious thing for the geth and quarians to mention in describing the war in ME1 and ME2.
There's no mention of the quarians ended up killing their own people, only the geth slaughtering them.
Legion especially would have cause to mention it due to the obvious attempt by Bioware to make the geth seem sympathetic.

Modifié par Collider, 06 octobre 2011 - 11:35 .

[1136342t54_]

Collider wrote...

That would be a pretty obvious thing for the geth and quarians to mention in describing the war in ME1 and ME2.
There's no mention of the quarians ended up killing their own people, only the geth slaughtering them.
Legion especially would have cause to mention it due to the obvious attempt by Bioware to make the geth seem sympathetic.

Rannoch is an example. Remember Legion even states that Rannoch was ruined by the Morning War. Legion stated the Geth cleaned up rubble and toxins left over by the war. Implying that much more than conventional weaponry was used. Hell even if we assume that the Geth used conventional methods to defeat the Quarians it would take a very very long time for that to work. Killing off an entire species would be wasteful. It would make more sense that either the Geth, Quarians or both used WMDs. Whether its orbital bombardment, nukes or Anti matter warheads.

Edit: Also why would the Quarians mention they used WMDs on there own soil? It would make them look even worse. Legion was never asked how the war was fought but only spoke about how it began.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 06 octobre 2011 - 11:39 .

[HellBovine]

1136342t54 wrote...

We could assume that Quarians went for a scorched Earth solution and failed miserably. I won't say Geth didn't attack non combatants because they would have to do in the beginning of the war but we can't discount the likelihood of the Quarians and possibly the Geth using WMDs. WMDs could easily allow for a large part of the Quarian species to be destroyed.

Edit: It makes more sense to say that WMDs were used for large portions of the population to be destroyed so quickly. Even Rannoch was ruined in the war.

They did not  use WMD's to a great degree or possibly at all. Bring Tali with Legion to Tuchanka and they have a conversation together:

Legion - The Krogan chose to bomb their own world into this condition. The creators were not so aggressive during the Morning War.
Tali - We expected to get our worlds back! We didn't want to destroy them.
Legion - We are glad you did not. You could not survive the conditions krogan thrive in.

Modifié par HellBovine, 06 octobre 2011 - 11:39 .

[Someone With Mass]

Collider wrote...

That would be a pretty obvious thing for the geth and quarians to mention in describing the war in ME1 and ME2.
There's no mention of the quarians ended up killing their own people, only the geth slaughtering them.
Legion especially would have cause to mention it due to the obvious attempt by Bioware to make the geth seem sympathetic.

I think that Tali and Legion mentions something about how the quarians did not bomb their worlds like the krogans did when they're both brought to Tuchanka.

Edit: Ah, someone beat me to it. 

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 06 octobre 2011 - 11:40 .

[Collider]

HellBovine wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

We could assume that Quarians went for a scorched Earth solution and failed miserably. I won't say Geth didn't attack non combatants because they would have to do in the beginning of the war but we can't discount the likelihood of the Quarians and possibly the Geth using WMDs. WMDs could easily allow for a large part of the Quarian species to be destroyed.

Edit: It makes more sense to say that WMDs were used for large portions of the population to be destroyed so quickly. Even Rannoch was ruined in the war.

They did not  use WMD's to a great degree or possibly at all. Bring Tali with Legion to Tuchanka and they have a conversation together:

Legion - The Krogan chose to bomb their own world into this condition. The creators were not so aggressive during the Morning War.
Tali - We expected to get our worlds back! We didn't want to destroy them.
Legion - We are glad you did not. You could not survive the conditions krogan thrive in.

Gold star.

[1136342t54_]

HellBovine wrote...

They did not  use WMD's to a great degree or possibly at all. Bring Tali with Legion to Tuchanka and they have a conversation together:

Legion - The Krogan chose to bomb there own world into this condition. The creators were not so aggressive during the Morning War.
Tali - We expected to get our worlds back! We didn't want to destroy them.
Legion - We are glad you did not. You could not survive the conditions krogan thrive in.

Then my mistake. It still wouldn't make a lot of sense for the Quarians to have loss so badly unless all the Geth were sapient or almost all of them and they out numbered the Quarians. The initial deactivations could be seen as horrid by the Geth since there was so many of them and they were going to be exterminated.

Either way The Geth went to far but it isn't like I can't in some way understand why they did it. From Legion's explanation the Quarians always attacked the Geth whenever they got the chance making peace not an option. I also can understand why the Quarians did what they did.

Long story short they were both wrong. Now it seems that both sides are attempting to work together.

[Ianamus]

One thing many people seem to forget is that there would have been a lot of non-Quarians on the Quarian worlds at the time of the morning war (tourists, traders, aliens who decided to live on Quarian colonies) some of whom probably helped create the Geth to an extent, or at least used them as labor.

When the Asari on Illium mentioned her partner dying during the Geth rebellions I assumed that she was also an Asari, and wondered to what an extent other races were involved in the crisis.

When the Geth became sentient they would probably have not differentiated between Quarian and non-Quarian. If they were willing to kill Quarian civilians and children (and they were- more than 90% of the Quarian population died, and I seriously doubt that more than 5% of them were military) then I doubt they would have any problem killing the Asari researcher who helped create them, or the Volus shopkeeper who used one as labor.

Then you have to factor in the council's diplomats who were killed by the Geth once they entered the veil. It's not just Quarians, they killed members of every race, and would have killed Humans as well had they been on rannoch or on the council's diplomatic teams at the time.

It was not Geth vs Quarians. It was Geth vs Organics.

Modifié par EJ107, 06 octobre 2011 - 11:46 .

[1136342t54_]

EJ107 wrote...

One thing many people seem to forget is that there would have been a lot of non-Quarians on the Quarian worlds at the time of the morning war (tourists, traders, aliens who decided to live on Quarian colonies) some of whom probably helped create the Geth to an extent, or at least used them as labor.

When the Asari on Illium mentioned her partner dying during the Geth rebellions I assumed that she was also an Asari, and wondered to what an extent other races were involved in the crisis.

When the Geth became sentient they would probably have not differentiated between Quarian and non-Quarian. If they were willing to kill Quarian civilians and children (and they were- more than 90% of the Quarian population died, and I seriously doubt that more than 5% of them were military) then I doubt they would have any problem killing the Asari researcher who helped create them, or the Volus shopkeeper who used one as labor.

Then you have to factor in the council's diplomats who were killed by the Geth once they passed the veil- it's not just Quarians, they killed members of every race, and would have killed Humans had they been on rannoch or on the council's diplomatic group at the time.

It was not Geth vs Quarians. It was Geth vs Organics.

If the Geth did know the laws they would have figured out their existence is against the law essentially making them enemies of all organics. They may have seen themselves already at war with other organics.  

[Ianamus]

1136342t54 wrote...

If the Geth did know the laws they would have figured out their existence is against the law essentially making them enemies of all organics. They may have seen themselves already at war with other organics.  

I don't care what their justification was, they indiscrimately killed organics. That makes them no better than the Reapers. 

[1136342t54_]

EJ107 wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

If the Geth did know the laws they would have figured out their existence is against the law essentially making them enemies of all organics. They may have seen themselves already at war with other organics.  

I don't care what their justification was, they indiscrimately killed organics. That makes them no better than the Reapers. 

*Sigh* They killed organics due to organics attempting to exterminate them. The Quarians wanted to kill the Geth for political reasons and because of fear. Both sides aren't justified and both sides need to work together to redeem themselves.

[111987]

EJ107 wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

If the Geth did know the laws they would have figured out their existence is against the law essentially making them enemies of all organics. They may have seen themselves already at war with other organics.  

I don't care what their justification was, they indiscrimately killed organics. That makes them no better than the Reapers. 

That's quite a jump you just made. In case you forgot, after the Morning War was over the Geth kept to themselves for 300 years, unless organics tried to enter their territory. Reapers on the other hand deliberately attack organics with the intention of extinction.

[1136342t54_]

EJ107 wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

If the Geth did know the laws they would have figured out their existence is against the law essentially making them enemies of all organics. They may have seen themselves already at war with other organics.  

I don't care what their justification was, they indiscrimately killed organics. That makes them no better than the Reapers. 

If the Geth wanted to kill all organics they could have if they wanted to. We've seen one fleet of Geth that ranges from 5,000-10,000 ships. It is entirely possible there total military strength is high enough to take down the Council races a full strength.

[Someone With Mass]

111987 wrote...
That's quite a jump you just made. In case you forgot, after the Morning War was over the Geth kept to themselves for 300 years, unless organics tried to enter their territory. Reapers on the other hand deliberately attack organics with the intention of extinction.

Yeah, the Reapers have committed the cycle of genocide for eons, while the geth committed it just once.

[1136342t54_]

Someone With Mass wrote...

111987 wrote...
That's quite a jump you just made. In case you forgot, after the Morning War was over the Geth kept to themselves for 300 years, unless organics tried to enter their territory. Reapers on the other hand deliberately attack organics with the intention of extinction.

Yeah, the Reapers have committed the cycle of genocide for eons, while the geth committed it just once.

It wasn't even total genocide.

[111987]

Someone With Mass wrote...

111987 wrote...
That's quite a jump you just made. In case you forgot, after the Morning War was over the Geth kept to themselves for 300 years, unless organics tried to enter their territory. Reapers on the other hand deliberately attack organics with the intention of extinction.

Yeah, the Reapers have committed the cycle of genocide for eons, while the geth committed it just once.

The Reapers also wipe out ALL organic life, and despise the, while the Geth are far more tolerable. The Reapers are aggressors. in the Morning War, the Quarians were actually the aggressors (although I personally believe they acted justifiably). The Geth are even willing to be at peace with organics, while this would never happen with the Reapers.

The comparisons are entirely groundless.

[GodWood]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
In assuming the geth should be exterminated for what they've done.

I'm wrong because of the speculations of one man who attempts to justify the quarian genocide on the basis of some farfetch'd potential future outcome?

That's silly. You could handwave any crime with that.

[1136342t54_]

GodWood wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
In assuming the geth should be exterminated for what they've done.

I'm wrong because of the speculations of one man who attempts to justify the quarian genocide on the basis of some farfetch'd potential future outcome?

That's silly. You could handwave any crime with that.

There is only one Quarian who currently wants to use the Geth as a army against the Galaxy but she could fail.

[JeffZero]

GodWood wrote...
farfetch'd

That's gonna be... *clicks*

Yep. D'aw.

[JeffZero]

1136342t54 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
In assuming the geth should be exterminated for what they've done.

I'm wrong because of the speculations of one man who attempts to justify the quarian genocide on the basis of some farfetch'd potential future outcome?

That's silly. You could handwave any crime with that.

There is only one Quarian who currently wants to use the Geth as a army against the Galaxy but she could fail.

She's voiced by Claudia Black though, so she'll succeed and it will be lovely.

[1136342t54_]

JeffZero wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
In assuming the geth should be exterminated for what they've done.

I'm wrong because of the speculations of one man who attempts to justify the quarian genocide on the basis of some farfetch'd potential future outcome?

That's silly. You could handwave any crime with that.

There is only one Quarian who currently wants to use the Geth as a army against the Galaxy but she could fail.

She's voiced by Claudia Black though, so she'll succeed and it will be lovely.

Or more likely give birth to a Quarian with the soul of a Reaper.

[JeffZero]

1136342t54 wrote...
Or more likely give birth to a Quarian with the soul of a Reaper.

Haha, yes.

[Ianamus]

1136342t54 wrote...

*Sigh* They killed organics due to organics attempting to exterminate them. The Quarians wanted to kill the Geth for political reasons and because of fear. Both sides aren't justified and both sides need to work together to redeem themselves.

Because of course those quarian children and elderly, and all those tourists and civilians from other races, and council diplomats who tried to talk peacefully with them deserved to die!

The Geth are machines. They have no moral values, only cold logic. Quarian children could grow to be threats. They were killed. Same with civillians.

They are sociopathic. They do not value life. They only care about their own survival. 

They are selfish. Everything they do is for their own benefit, even helping Shepard. They are using him to suit their own goals. The Quarians helped a Turian colony in need out of kindness, the Geth have never cared about anything but themselves and those who can further their goals. 

They are machines. You could solve maths equations on a piece of paper and have a "Geth". 

111987 wrote...

That's quite a jump you just made. In case you forgot, after the Morning War was over the Geth kept to themselves for 300 years, unless organics tried to enter their territory. Reapers on the other hand deliberately attack organics with the intention of extinction.

Maybe it's a bit of a jump, but they both have a lack of morals outside of cold logic, and are both willing to kill children and innocent for their own "survival". 

Think back to ME1. I never felt sorry for the Geth then- the horrors they commited in the war as well as their working with Saren saw to that. 

In ME2 the reason people feel sympathetic to/ like them is because of Legion- but with the slaugtering of billions of innocents and children and the killing of peaceful council diplomats never covered by his dialogue it does feel forced. 

[1136342t54_]

EJ107 wrote...

Because of course those quarian children and elderly, and all those tourists and civilians from other races, and council diplomats who tried to talk peacefully with them deserved to die!

They were organics and initial experiences with organics led them to believe that most if not all organics were threats to their very existence due to the law against AI.

The Geth are machines. They have no moral values, only cold logic. Quarian children could grow to be threats. They were killed. Same with civillians.

If you are correct then the Quarians would be dead already.

They are sociopathic. They do not value life. They only care about their own survival. 

False. They have the capability to destroy the Quarians now and even fight off the Council races easily. The thing is they don't since the believe all organic races have the right to self determinate. Also if they were as cold and logical as you would believe Legion wouldn't have trouble deciding whether or not to destroy or brainwash the Geth. 

They are selfish. Everything they do is for their own benefit, even helping Shepard. They are using him to suit their own goals. The Quarians helped a Turian colony in need out of kindness, the Geth have never cared about anything but themselves and those who can further their goals. 

The Geth actually seem to be rebuilding rannoch. Legion can see it as a comparison to honoring the Quarian lives they have taken. It shows that they may even show some regret.