293 réponses à ce sujet

[Nashiktal]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

That threatens a lot.

Certainly rather unsettling, yes. Not sure why it has to be threatening, but it could definitely be an uncomfortable situation.

Not sure why it isn't threatening? Your military infastructure (the quarians were relying heavily on the geth to bolster their military) suddenly started asking questions. They are no longer a tool, but an entity. That military chopper you are riding.

A false premise. You do have time to think. You are choosing not to. Very important difference. Also, you do not know your infrastructure is danger, though you may suspect it. Again, important difference.

This wasn't an isolated incidient, this was widespread across quarians space. You entire infastructure is asking questions. What do you do? Nothing? What if it doesn't get back to work? What if it does? Either way everything the quarians know is about to end.

Okay... How is that relevant?

The Quarians are not a completely united people. What one corporation does, and what one government facility does may not pertain to another. Lets say a small business had some geth units for labor, he decides to shut them down in fear of them, then lets say another corporation is fascinated by the geth and does nothing to observe. The geth still retaliate either way.

The geth are still new to this whole existing thing, they are barely forming concepts.

Let's cut to the quick and go back to your previous point: there is a degree of the unknown here. There are hypotheticals and speculations and assumptions run amok. We don't know what would have happened if the Quarians had not tried to "unplug" the Geth. That's true once you make any decision; you don't know what would have happened if you selected the alternative.

Not knowing does not grant moral absolution. You still bear the responsibility of your actions. Now, those Quarians are all dead, but the living Quarians have one heck of a grudge, and it's on this same sort of stuff. "Well, we didn't know, so that means we had to be right." Wrong.

I never claimed the Quarians were right, I am trying to show how it is not black and white.

The origional quarians already paid their due and left a heavy debt to the current generation, and the quarians today have been raised with the (one sided) view of how the geth have taken everything from the quarians. It just is not black and white, and simply pointing out any "but it was your fault" solutions to the quarians is not going to end this conflict.

I have to say though, if any end is to come with this conflict it will have to come from the quarians. Right or wrong it will be up to them to choose how and when to end this crusade.

Sorry the quote system is bugging out on me.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 05 octobre 2011 - 12:13 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

In the end it's not so hard to imagine why the quarians want their planet back - hell if humanity got kicked of Earth i can easily imagine humans spending many years cast adrift in space while trying to come up with some way to get Earth back.

[Iclonic]

SandTrout wrote...

Just to make a side point about an argument that gets brought up often regarding AI, self-preservation is not inherently included in sentience. Survival instinct exists in humans because of how our sentience came into being (natural selection). The Geth, however, were manufactured and programmed, meaning that they came into being as design, with their sentience not being achieved via a harsh survival test. It is possible to be aware without placing any value on ones own existence.

Of course, this could be a moot point because apparently the Quarians did include a self-preservation algorithm in Geth programming. Huge mistake, but understandable for tools that don't have constant oversight to prevent them from destroying themselves.

I get that the Quarians would go with the military option once they found out that the Geth wouldn't listen and that the Geth would respond in kind. But did noone build hardcoded fail-safes into the Geth platofrms and their robotic forms? I mean I were to build a robot with weaponry, I'd make damned sure I can deactivate the thing under any and all circumstance. Which should include it's software not working as intended.

While an apparently sound theory, this doesn't actually work for military hardware, because if such a 'kill' signal existed, your enemies would work extensively to find out what it is, and then use it at the most opportune (inopportune, for you) moment.

A better design for a fail safe there would be to have some sort of internal hardware limiter that would reduce the hardware to non-functional after a fixed period. Non-rechargeable batteries seem like the most obvious solution here.

You sir, Are Smart. ;D 


I agree with Trout, It would make sense. Non re-chargable batteries or something like that. I mean, You couldn't use a frequency to trasnmit a deactivation, it be like showing the enemy the switch off button.  The Self-preservation thingy, yes. I'm sure the 3 laws of Robotics exist somewhere here... 

[SnowHeart1]

Nashiktal wrote...

Not sure why it isn't threatening? Your military infastructure (the quarians were relying heavily on the geth to bolster their military) suddenly started asking questions. They are no longer a tool, but an entity. That military chopper you are riding.

It could be threatening, sure, but it doesn't have to be. Alternatively, you could look at it and say, "Holy moly! My refrigerator is talking! That's awesome! Let's see what I can teach it and if I can figure out why it isn't keeping things uniformly cool." (I realize I'm being a little flippant here; I'm sorry. Just trying to inject some levity into what is becoming a heated and unpleasant debate in some quarters. My point is only that it doesn't have to be threatening.)

This wasn't an isolated incidient, this was widespread across quarians space. You entire infastructure is asking questions. What do you do? Nothing? What if it doesn't get back to work? What if it does? Either way everything the quarians know is about to end.

Doing nothing is a choice. As is answering the machines' questions and asking questions back. Taking some time to research it. Think about it. I always tell my clients, if you ever feel you absolutely have to make a decision at absolutely this precise moment, don't. Wait. Think.

What I think you're talking about here is a fear of the unknown. Perfectly natural. Perfectly normal. But that fear does not justify any decision.

The Quarians are not a completely united people. What one corporation does, and what one government facility does may not pertain to another. Lets say a small business had some geth units for labor, he decides to shut them down in fear of them, then lets say another corporation is fascinated by the geth and does nothing to observe. The geth still retaliate either way.

The geth are still new to this whole existing thing, they are barely forming concepts.

Ah! Okay. I understand. And I concede that point. You're right. Let's say Quarian A has his Geth asking questions, decides this is interesting, and elects to study the matter and interact with his Geth. Meanwhile, Quarian B is asked a question by her Geth, she panicks, and tries to pull the plug. The Geth, newly sapient with barely formed morality (if at all), see Quarian B is a threat, extrapolate that most Quarians could be a threat, and decide to kill all Quarians, and poor Quarian A gets caught up in that.

Fair point. I don't think that's how the lore has been presented to us (I think it is presented as if the Quarian's made a collective decision), but that's probably more of a weakness of the lore than of your argument.

I never claimed the Quarians were right, I am trying to show how it is not black and white.

I agree with you completely.  That is all I have been trying to argue, but I do 100% reject the politics of grievance and victimization that a lot of the pro-Quarian folks advocate. The Quarians screwed up, several times, and compounded their mistakes with more mistakes. The Geth were in the infancy of their sapience and were, in fact, dangerous and unpredictable and, like a baby, probably rather amoral (not immoral, just lacking a sense of right or wrong).

The origional quarians already paid their due and left a heavy debt to the current generation, and the quarians today have been raised with the (one sided) view of how the geth have taken everything from the quarians. It just is not black and white, and simply pointing out any "but it was your fault" solutions to the quarians is not going to end this conflict.

No, it won't end it. But imagine the difference in the conversation between the Quarians and the Geth if the Quarians could start it by saying, "We didn't realize you were self-aware. We understand why you reacted the way you did. Can we try to build a concensus about peaceful coexistance?"

I have to say though, if any end is to come with this conflict it will have to come from the quarians. Right or wrong it will be up to them to choose how and when to end this crusade.

It will either come from that, or the Geth get into their Dyson Sphere and fly off into Dark Space. I basically agree with you, though.

Sorry the quote system is bugging out on me.

It's murder on these long posts.

[Nashiktal]

@Snowheart1

Eh looks like we are not really arguing then, how dare you sir! Seriously though that quoting system is ridiculous, and my sentences were all broken up. <_<

In the end I just don't know how we are going to end the conflict. Even if we get the quarian leaders to agree with peace, the quarians just cannot achieve "consensus" as a whole. The grudge is very deep.

I think though that some of it might be alieved if they fight side by side somehow, a trial by fire if you know what I mean.

[javierabegazo]

@Saphra Dedan

See your inbox please. Insults and such will not be tolerated here.

[aiDvEoN]

@ Snowheart1

I agree with almost everything there. Asking questions and exploring what's happened would have been a more appropriate response. The problem is that 1. AI has has a history of turning hostile in ME, hence 2, its illegality. And that issue is what I suspect took the quarian response from "what the spork?" To "oh s***, where's the off switch?" As I've said, I consider the moment the geth awakened to be the moment the quarians were screwed, since the council would almost certainly have demanded a shutdown.

As for the grievance politics, I think they're somewhat justified. Not over the geth, but over the fact that the rest of the galaxy sat by and did NOTHING while.99.9% of their species died, and has spent the next three centuries keeping them on their knees through systematic discrimination and inaction.

[Nashiktal]

You forgot to mention the unity variable. Two quarians as snow showed above would not do the same thing. One may wait, the other might act immediately. The geth were barely sapient, little wisdom and judgement, and their intelligence only lowers when not around other geth.

[SnowHeart1]

@ Nash and aiD -- I'm just difficult and at times a little contrarian. I think it's a very gray area, with both sides having strong arguments. The Quarians-as-victims theme just pushes my buttons. They're only victims as long as they allow themselves to be, IMO, and they're not going to get past that until they get over this narrative of victimhood. I also believe you have to learn from history, and that includes the mistakes of our ancestors. Anyway, cheers and have a g'night.

[CroGamer002]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

If the Council threatened to bomb their asses, why don't they just colonize a planet in non-Council space? They have enough ships to kick off any slaver attacks.

*Take note I'm actually not trying to be a b*tch.

Probably because there are almost no habitable planets that suits them. 

Unless the planet supports their genetic makeup, something as simple as pollen will be like poison to them.

It'll also take them a lot longer to adapt to the planet's environment compared to re-adapting to their homeworld's environment, which could be a problem with their limited resources.

Oh and pirates, raiders and slavers that are all over the Terminus System's.

It also needs to be secure place, at least until Quarians can set up all defenses.

[DarthSliver]

You guys do know that the Quarians were pouring program after program into the Geth. I mean they didnt want to have to bother with maintenance on the Geth, they had the Geth do that too. When the Quarians realized their "VI" evolved into an AI making them the creators, they wanted to hide it. Council back than had a law against AI's but I dont think it was so strictly uphelded until after the Morningstar War. So to the point the Quarians tried to shut the Geth down for good so the Council didnt find out. I am sure the Quarians couldve shackled the Geth in given time but they wanted to make sure no one knew what they did. They didnt want questions to be asked about the Geth from outsiders. So in the end the Quarians are responsible for their almost near extinction.

I mean if science creates a virus to cure cancer and it instead causes a Zombie Apocalypse who is at fault, The Zombies or Humans? Thats essentially what it comes down to with this Quarian and Geth thing too. Quarian creates Geth and pours programs into them so Quarians can kick back and not have to do alot. Geth eventually evolves to the next level into an AI and gets sentience, Quarians attack them resulting in 99.9% of Quarian life to end. Its in there black and white that the Quarians are the reason more than half their specie ended.

[CptBomBom00]

Quarains should have just say that geth have soul and war would not happen simple solution.

[SkittlesKat96]

DarthSliver wrote...

You guys do know that the Quarians were pouring program after program into the Geth. I mean they didnt want to have to bother with maintenance on the Geth, they had the Geth do that too. When the Quarians realized their "VI" evolved into an AI making them the creators, they wanted to hide it. Council back than had a law against AI's but I dont think it was so strictly uphelded until after the Morningstar War. So to the point the Quarians tried to shut the Geth down for good so the Council didnt find out. I am sure the Quarians couldve shackled the Geth in given time but they wanted to make sure no one knew what they did. They didnt want questions to be asked about the Geth from outsiders. So in the end the Quarians are responsible for their almost near extinction.

I mean if science creates a virus to cure cancer and it instead causes a Zombie Apocalypse who is at fault, The Zombies or Humans? Thats essentially what it comes down to with this Quarian and Geth thing too. Quarian creates Geth and pours programs into them so Quarians can kick back and not have to do alot. Geth eventually evolves to the next level into an AI and gets sentience, Quarians attack them resulting in 99.9% of Quarian life to end. Its in there black and white that the Quarians are the reason more than half their specie ended.

Don't say that or the ME 3 forum E-ZY Crew will bust you up and tell you how the Geth are to blame but are also at the same time not intelligent or highly sentient.

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 05 octobre 2011 - 07:46 .

[DarthSliver]

Now to the original point of this thread, It would be nice to get a deeper feeling on the Quarians side in ME3 like when we visit the planet. Because right now it feels like Quarians are truly and deeply the bad guys in this war and their continued ignorance shows. I mean your suppose to learn from past mistakes not be doomed to repeat them. I dont think the Quarians can afford another 99.9% lost in their current population.

[azerSheppard]

Mesina2 wrote...
From Legion we find out that reason why Geth slaughter billions of Quarians( non-combatants mostly ofcourse) is because they though if they kill them all, they'll survive.
Though later on in war they find out that's not needed and let remaining Quarians go.
And they don't deny they made a horrible mistake there.

Nowhere in the entire game i have seen or heard that line, can you give me the part where that was said?

The geth think they made a mistake? Really, i don't think so, you see, the Quarians that tried to pull the plugs are long gone, but it's still the same Geth, the same that where involved in the war, it's quite obvious that they are not soo quick or eager to attain peace with the Quarians, as they still remember every attempt the collective people have had to destroy the Geth.

They never thought they made a mistake, a child's mind is incapable of such a feat, and since the geth at first barely had that level of intelligence, they never realised what they had done, untill much later. And even then, if a 11 yo kills someone, it is not judged the same way as an adult, even if this child has reached adulthood by the time he is tried, he still is only accountable as he was during the murder.

Logic says that the Geths genocide attack was the only sound plan, as the surviving Quarians never stopped contemplating to retake their planet, destroy the Geth, or enslave them.

[Warlocomotf]

When the Quarians "attacked", did they grab a shotgun and go to town, or did they try to disable the Geth by non-damaging means? (ie: Hit the switch)

If they simply tried to hit the switch, then I'd like to point out that... That is absolutely the only sensible thing they could have possibly at all considered doing at that time. Any more passive course of action would be flat out outrageous.

Why? Because when you realize that the machines you've built without any safety precautions that normally come with programming an AI- is in fact free thinking... Well, your first thought should at the very very least be "I should probably add the laws of robotics somewhere in their programming". Not doing so (or something similar) would be immensely irresponsible and could easily spell doom for the entire sentient galaxy. It would be like creating a giant army of killing machines/terminators and telling them "okay you boys go have fun now!". I would like to point out, these robots were extensively used for military purposes and heavy duty work. They weren't a race of house-bots and nothing else.

When they realized that the Geth had become sentient, they had 2 reasonable choices, and 1 slightly less reasonable choice:
1] Implement safety precautions in Geth software.
2] Return them back to VI somehow (however considering that even now they do not know exactly what caused them to evolve into AI- that probably wouldn't be a very viable option).
3] Destroy them.

I don't remember exact codex material, but from the game I seem to remember that Quarians first attempted to disable the Geth. However if they did attack, that is still not enormously unreasonable; first of I would like to remind you that the Quarians are generally highly knowledgeable about AI- they were probably very well aware of what the risks were if a population as large as that of the Geth became sentient (This alone should probably put them in a better position to make the decision than those who like to look at this in hindsight).

But on top of that, AI were forbidden, and it's fair to assume the council would have wanted the Geth disabled either way at this point.

[111987]

DarthSliver wrote...

You guys do know that the Quarians were pouring program after program into the Geth. I mean they didnt want to have to bother with maintenance on the Geth, they had the Geth do that too. When the Quarians realized their "VI" evolved into an AI making them the creators, they wanted to hide it. Council back than had a law against AI's but I dont think it was so strictly uphelded until after the Morningstar War. So to the point the Quarians tried to shut the Geth down for good so the Council didnt find out. I am sure the Quarians couldve shackled the Geth in given time but they wanted to make sure no one knew what they did. They didnt want questions to be asked about the Geth from outsiders. So in the end the Quarians are responsible for their almost near extinction.

I mean if science creates a virus to cure cancer and it instead causes a Zombie Apocalypse who is at fault, The Zombies or Humans? Thats essentially what it comes down to with this Quarian and Geth thing too. Quarian creates Geth and pours programs into them so Quarians can kick back and not have to do alot. Geth eventually evolves to the next level into an AI and gets sentience, Quarians attack them resulting in 99.9% of Quarian life to end. Its in there black and white that the Quarians are the reason more than half their specie ended.

What makes you think fear of the Council was their only motivation for trying to stop the Geth? They are an AI...perhaps they were trying to stop the Geth from causing "a technological apocalypse", like what almost happened in Overlord. That's the threat an AI could pose to the galaxy. The Quarians had a choice of either destroying the Geth, or 1). risking the Council finding out about their AI's, and losing their Citadel embassy and 2). risking unleashing a possible galactic wide threat.

Even though hindsight tell us that they made the wrong choice, at the time, they chose the only sensible path available to them.

CptBomBom00 wrote...

Quarains should have just say that geth have soul and war would not happen simple solution.

We know that now, but how were the Quarians supposed to know that at the time? For all they knew, if they told the Geth they had a soul, the Geth would reach the conclusion that they should rebel against the people enslaving them.

Modifié par 111987, 05 octobre 2011 - 02:54 .

[Nashiktal]

AI were forbidden for a good reason folks. The fear of the geth wasn't just some childish we did wrong so lets hide it bid.

                                                                      Semi Related

Modifié par Nashiktal, 05 octobre 2011 - 02:57 .

[DarthSliver]

111987 wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

You guys do know that the Quarians were pouring program after program into the Geth. I mean they didnt want to have to bother with maintenance on the Geth, they had the Geth do that too. When the Quarians realized their "VI" evolved into an AI making them the creators, they wanted to hide it. Council back than had a law against AI's but I dont think it was so strictly uphelded until after the Morningstar War. So to the point the Quarians tried to shut the Geth down for good so the Council didnt find out. I am sure the Quarians couldve shackled the Geth in given time but they wanted to make sure no one knew what they did. They didnt want questions to be asked about the Geth from outsiders. So in the end the Quarians are responsible for their almost near extinction.

I mean if science creates a virus to cure cancer and it instead causes a Zombie Apocalypse who is at fault, The Zombies or Humans? Thats essentially what it comes down to with this Quarian and Geth thing too. Quarian creates Geth and pours programs into them so Quarians can kick back and not have to do alot. Geth eventually evolves to the next level into an AI and gets sentience, Quarians attack them resulting in 99.9% of Quarian life to end. Its in there black and white that the Quarians are the reason more than half their specie ended.

What makes you think fear of the Council was their only motivation for trying to stop the Geth? They are an AI...perhaps they were trying to stop the Geth from causing "a technological apocalypse", like what almost happened in Overlord. That's the threat an AI could pose to the galaxy. The Quarians had a choice of either destroying the Geth, or 1). risking the Council finding out about their AI's, and losing their Citadel embassy and 2). risking unleashing a possible galactic wide threat.

Even though hindsight tell us that they made the wrong choice, at the time, they chose the only sensible path available to them.

Well you do know I compared it to a Zombie Apocalypse for a good reason because in most Zombie movies id seen humans were the cause to Zombies happening through science. Whether it was to cure cancer or some genenic enchancement, the form of medicence they created started the Zombie Apocalypse. So again Do you blame the Zombies or the humans for most of the human population going the way of the dinosaur?

Quarians created the Geth fully aware of what they were doing, like people have said the Quarians had full knowledge what they were doing. Not to mention by the time they decided to shut the Geth down after one Geth asked if it had soul, the Geth had already asked that quesiton several times beforehand. Quarians problay wouldve been more successful if they had shut the Geth down when it was first asked, not wait several times more for it to be asked. They made the programs able to learn on and pick up on things, they wanted the Geth to take over with the hard stuff so Quarians could mostly kick back and smoke some weed while drinking some booze 'so to speak'. So yes Quarians were well aware of the dangers especially since it was illegal to create an AI and yeah i know the Geth started as an advance VI but they made the VI able to learn and do stuff on its own. It was only a matter of time before they evolved into a machine sentient race. 

I mean take Terminator for example, you let your computer do the military work it will learn to use its knowledge to take over itself. Yeah Skynet was an advanced system just being installed and activated, but it had already infected computers through the interweb before it even was turned on and was just sitting there waiting to be turn on. Skynet was able to fool the military in needing it before they fine tuned it. Which in turn caused the Terminator saga to happen. 

But back to the topic at hand, I do believe the Quarians are at fault with the information we have but we just dont have enough information. The Quarians of now are too ignorant to put the past behind them and seem doom to repeat past mistakes. I will side with the Geth if there is no peace option with the information we have right now.

[111987]

DarthSliver wrote...

Well you do know I compared it to a Zombie Apocalypse for a good reason because in most Zombie movies id seen humans were the cause to Zombies happening through science. Whether it was to cure cancer or some genenic enchancement, the form of medicence they created started the Zombie Apocalypse. So again Do you blame the Zombies or the humans for most of the human population going the way of the dinosaur?

Quarians created the Geth fully aware of what they were doing, like people have said the Quarians had full knowledge what they were doing. Not to mention by the time they decided to shut the Geth down after one Geth asked if it had soul, the Geth had already asked that quesiton several times beforehand. Quarians problay wouldve been more successful if they had shut the Geth down when it was first asked, not wait several times more for it to be asked. They made the programs able to learn on and pick up on things, they wanted the Geth to take over with the hard stuff so Quarians could mostly kick back and smoke some weed while drinking some booze 'so to speak'. So yes Quarians were well aware of the dangers especially since it was illegal to create an AI and yeah i know the Geth started as an advance VI but they made the VI able to learn and do stuff on its own. It was only a matter of time before they evolved into a machine sentient race. 

I mean take Terminator for example, you let your computer do the military work it will learn to use its knowledge to take over itself. Yeah Skynet was an advanced system just being installed and activated, but it had already infected computers through the interweb before it even was turned on and was just sitting there waiting to be turn on. Skynet was able to fool the military in needing it before they fine tuned it. Which in turn caused the Terminator saga to happen. 

But back to the topic at hand, I do believe the Quarians are at fault with the information we have but we just dont have enough information. The Quarians of now are too ignorant to put the past behind them and seem doom to repeat past mistakes. I will side with the Geth if there is no peace option with the information we have right now.

Well, you didn't really address the points I made, but okay.

In a zombie apocalypse, then yes it is the human's fault. But that's a totally different, incomparable situation so I'm not sure why you bring it up. That example would work if humans created zombies to serve as shock troopers or something, but eventually they started infecting the people they were designed to protect.

Who says they didn't shut down the other Geth who asked if they had a soul? In all likelihood they probably did, or had them reprogrammed, believing that platform to be defective. Also, you are casting the Quarians in a very negative light; they didn't create the Geth so that they could just be lazy and not do any work. Improving lives =/= laziness.

How were the Quarians supposed to know that their VI machines, by sharing data resources, would become an AI? Nothing like that had ever happened before; it would have been very difficult to predict.

When facing an unknown, that has a strong chance of becoming a galactic threat, most people wouldn't sit around and wait to see what happens.

[DarthSliver]

Well the thing is we dont know enough on the Quarians side and the fact they want to continue to fight the Geth rather than try a more peaceful solution seems to me they are doomed to repeat history. I hope ME3 gives us a better understanding of what the Quarians are going through and why they seem to want to risk the little population they have to take back their lost homeworld. There is definitely more behind the scenes for their reasoning and we dont see it yet but fact remains it paints them negatively. They may not know the Geth desire peace but fact is we the player know this and we see they are bent on wanting to destroy them.

Also your right on them not being lazy but they did make the Geth and they did pour alot of programs into them and they did make the Geth able to learn. But we dont know if they shut the first one down or reset it or what not but we do know they took direct action to shut them all down after the Geth have been asking the questions several times. Its really the unknown of what we dont know that bring this topic up in the first place. Did the Quarians try to do something, well if i recall right i think it does say they tried adding new programs or something to that degree to prevent it from reoccurring but because the Geth could learn they were able to bypass that programming. I do think the Quarians didnt take the civil route when shutting down the Geth which resulted in more than half their race being killed off. But there is just know way to exactly know because Legion tells us every time they saw a chance to take them down they took it which in turn caused them more loses in life and than now we see yet again they want to take violent actions towards the Geth. Its only a matter of time before the Geth say enough is enough and decide its in their better interest to wipe out the rest of the Quarians than let their next generation take vengeance on them.

Modifié par DarthSliver, 05 octobre 2011 - 04:51 .

[Valdrane78]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

You assume they would have struck first.

No, I don't. All I have done is acknowledge that they could have and what the consequences would be.

Just because they could have doesn't mean that they would have, that is one hell of an assumption to make, and with 0 facts to back it up either.  We have no idea what they would have done if the Quarians had granted them freedom instead of attacking them.  According to Tali, the Quarians didn't even bother to think of taking any other action that turning them off or destroying them.  However, we will never know because the Quarians acted out of fear instead of taking a step back and looking at it logicaly.  Somehow, I think it would have all turned out very differently if they had.

[Someone With Mass]

If the quarians hadn't tried to shut off the geth, the Council would've sure as hell forced them to.

[Soccer FeverMan]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

Nah you just mad he proved you wrong with concrete facts.. i have noticed you pull immature sh*t when arguing with him. its fun to read keep it up

I wouldn't call stating something that wasn't touched upon in the Codex or the in-game description as "concrete facts".
 

are you retarded can you do simple math the quarians got conquered aproximately 300 years before the events of mass effect 1

2183-300= 1883

Ekuna colony founded in 2103 present day is 2186 thats at the very least 200 years 

[javierabegazo]

@Soccer FeverMan
Let me be very clear on this: You cannot post in such an insulting way. Repeated offenses will result in a Ban.