106 réponses à ce sujet

[Iclonic]

Remember how its been said that the VS (Virmire Survivor) and Liara were excluded from your squad in ME2 so that they could play a major impact in ME3 (or something of the like)? Would that mean that Garrus and Tali could potentially be overshadowed by their importance (Considering they were from your Original Squad from ME1) ?

What do you guys think?  

My Opinion: I certainly hope not, and I have total faith in Bioware that it won't happen. But that tingling feeling in the back of head... 

Verdict: It could  happen... 

Who knows...I guess we will have to wait for another (from OCT. 3rd) 154 days. :l 

Modifié par Iclonic, 04 octobre 2011 - 02:39 .

[Iclonic]

Sorry, how could I forget Wrex too? Shameful of me.

[shepskisaac]

Considering Garrus & Tali were perma squaddies in both previous games and Tali especially was heavily involved in ME2, it wouldn't be any problem if they got 'overshadowed' by VS. But as for Liara? Even though she wasn't a perma squaddie in ME2, her involvement was still huge. She got the biggest cameo of all ME1 squaddies (except for Tali & Garrus of course) including her own missions, she got her own comic series and of course her own DLC which provided tons of content for her. So out of ME1 characters, VS & Wrex should get the most, then followed by Liara, Garrus and Tali at the end. And of course all ME2 characters should be heavily involved, especially Legion who was significantly underused.

[Made Nightwing]

I'm not objecting to the VS having a large role similar to what Garrus and Tali played in ME2. In fact, I'd be pretty irritated if they didn't play an important part, considering the way they got treated by Bioware on Horizon. But I doubt that Bioware will forget about Garrus and Tali.

[shepskisaac]

jreezy wrote...

We can only hope they do! Equal Opportunity Screen Time does not exist.

Well, if we look at it Trilogy-wise, Tali & Garrus already used their screen-time 'ration' compared to what is even possible for other characters to get. And yet they're STILL gonna be possible to recruit in ME3 as major squaddies. So really, no Tali/Garrus fan should complain, even if they get the least amount of content out of all ME3 perma/major squaddies.

[Xilizhra]

IsaacShep wrote...

Considering Garrus & Tali were perma squaddies in both previous games and Tali especially was heavily involved in ME2, it wouldn't be any problem if they got 'overshadowed' by VS. But as for Liara? Even though she wasn't a perma squaddie in ME2, her involvement was still huge. She got the biggest cameo of all ME1 squaddies (except for Tali & Garrus of course) including her own missions, she got her own comic series and of course her own DLC which provided tons of content for her. So out of ME1 characters, VS & Wrex should get the most, then followed by Liara, Garrus and Tali at the end. And of course all ME2 characters should be heavily involved, especially Legion who was significantly underused.

Wrex, I think, was always the most minor character of the ME1 squadmates, at least related to Shepard. I would have the VS and Liara tied, then Garrus and Tali tied, and finally Wrex. Assuming we couldn't have everyone be equal, but I think bringing in new squadmates like Vega is going to damage that. Damn you, Bioware...

[shepskisaac]

Wrex wasn't anymore 'minor' than Garrus in ME1. And he was involved in an incredibly memorable scene in ME1. And he also has his fans.

[Gallimatia]

Every character should not be featured equally. Some will be more important to the story than others. Attempting to give everyone equal exposure and relevance would get contrived. If anything being featured prominently in a previous game should encourage being used prominently again.

How is the acting Shadow Broker or the second human Spectre not more important to the story than the turian with the sniper rifle? Well it's certainly possible to write such a scenario but there's no reason Bioware should feel forced to.

[jeweledleah]

I'm actually hoping for more or less equal exposure. just becasue bioware decided to sideline VS for a game, doesn't mean fans of other characters should be "punished" now. especially LI's, I would not wish for another horizon on anyone.

it would be tough, but not impossible. and if over 3 games some characters will get more exposure then others, becasue they got about equal exposure in 3rd game? I'm ok with it.

[sesheta255]

I'm hoping the VS does overshadow everyone else to a certain degree. Kaidan and Ashley are the most underrated sqaudmates in the series, (along with Jacob), largely because they are human and not 'badass' aliens. It's about time they were given their chance to shine and show that they can kick ass just as well as every other member of the squad.

[flemm]

I would expect the VS, Vega and Liara to have the most lines and scenes in ME3. VS + Vega being the first two squad members you meet, and Liara functioning partly as squad member, partly as exposition-dumper/quest-giver. That last part is just a guess, but it seems like the whole point of making her the SB, really: she has all that info at her fingertips.

Garrus and Tali will have roles that are more like their ME2 roles: substantial, but somewhat smaller/less essential. With a few of the ME2 characters in this type of role, and others in more limited appearances.

It's not a problem, really. Basically, Garrus and Tali will have the same type of role they have always had. No more or less important in terms of screentime.

Modifié par flemm, 04 octobre 2011 - 03:21 .

[Xilizhra]

sesheta255 wrote...

I'm hoping the VS does overshadow everyone else to a certain degree. Kaidan and Ashley are the most underrated sqaudmates in the series, (along with Jacob), largely because they are human and not 'badass' aliens. It's about time they were given their chance to shine and show that they can kick ass just as well as every other member of the squad.

Bull****. They have several other problems, and quite frankly ME3 is looking no better in this regard.
I think a huge factor in their being less popular is that they're Alliance--namely, the same background and basically job as Shepard, until Shepard becomes a Spectre and they just become Spectre subordinates. They're pretty much exactly like the rest of the Normandy's crew except they can fight well enough to follow Shepard around; they have no individual plot points during the story beyond the dialogue everyone gets anyway, not even on the level of Tali's rather cursory data chase. The most important thing they do is die, and only one of them does that; aside from that, if you don't romance one, they're really not very important at all.
ME2 improved on this not at all, with the whole Horizon scene, and ME3 is making it even worse by having one be a Spectre. So, they seem to be pretty much inseperable from being "Shepard, but less so" throughout the whole series. And on Jacob's side, he's ex-Alliance and never stops acting like it. Miranda was distinctly Cerberus and Jack was distinctly something on her own, and neither was overlooked. It's not just about "badass alien" status.

[flemm]

Xilizhra wrote...
 The most important thing they do is die, and only one of them does that; aside from that, if you don't romance one, they're really not very important at all.

Well, the writers are going to have to work hard to make them stronger characters as well. But I'm sure they are aware of that. I expect tension with Shepard, partly for that reason, i.e. versions of Ashley and Kaidan that are ready to step out of Shepard's shadow a bit.

Modifié par flemm, 04 octobre 2011 - 03:35 .

[jtav]

I...agree with Xil. Right now, it feels like the function of the VS is to be a LI and a lesser version of Shep. They don't really have those distinct mini-plots like other characters do. And you lose a lot if you don't romance them.

[Xilizhra]

I...agree with Xil.

Is this such a shock?  
Of course, it's rather difficult to be distinct when one of your main traits is to be easily replaceable with a different character in all future plot points...

Modifié par Xilizhra, 04 octobre 2011 - 03:42 .

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
Right now, it feels like the function of the VS is to be a LI and a lesser version of Shep.

Sort of reminiscent of some of what has been said about Vega: he used to idolize Shep, he is like a younger version of Shep, etc. Which to me tends to reinforce the idea that the VS/Vega combo will have that sort of dual relationship with Shepard: used to look up to her/him, but now... maybe not so much.

Modifié par flemm, 04 octobre 2011 - 03:44 .

[Xilizhra]

flemm wrote...

jtav wrote...
Right now, it feels like the function of the VS is to be a LI and a lesser version of Shep.

Sort of reminiscent of some of what has been said about Vega: he used to idolize Shep, he is like a younger version of Shep, etc.

I think it's safe to say that if Vega is hated, it won't be solely because of prejudice against human male party members.

Notably, the only one I can think of without a bunch of other characteristics screwing him over, Alistair, was all in all well-liked. Anders in DA2's popularity issues were very much not related to his "human male" status.

[shepskisaac]

Xilizhra wrote...

The most important thing they do is die, and only one of them does that

Hell yeah, it's only like one of the most memorable if not the most memorable moment of ME1. Who the hell apart from ultra-hardcore fans even remembers about Tali "walking Codex" Zorah's geth data mini-side-quest from ME1?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 04 octobre 2011 - 03:48 .

[flemm]

Xilizhra wrote...
Notably, the only one I can think of without a bunch of other characteristics screwing him over, Alistair, was all in all well-liked. Anders in DA2's popularity issues were very much not related to his "human male" status.

Well, Alistair probably works so well because he is attractive to the straight ladies while also non-threatening to the straight men. Really good-looking, but he babbles, has confidence issues, tends to defer to the Warden... But he's secretly a prince and heir to the throne! LoL.

Anyway, with Vega I expect they will try to make him more extreme than Jacob, with anger-management issues, love/hate relationship with Shep, etc. Don't know how it will work out.

Modifié par flemm, 04 octobre 2011 - 03:51 .

[Mims]

There's a big difference between having a plot significant role and overshadowing. Any character caught overshadowing is going to runaground with me.

[ADLegend21]

Xilizhra wrote...

Bull****. They have several other problems, and quite frankly ME3 is looking no better in this regard.
I think a huge factor in their being less popular is that they're Alliance--namely, the same background and basically job as Shepard, until Shepard becomes a Spectre and they just become Spectre subordinates. They're pretty much exactly like the rest of the Normandy's crew except they can fight well enough to follow Shepard around; they have no individual plot points during the story beyond the dialogue everyone gets anyway, not even on the level of Tali's rather cursory data chase. The most important thing they do is die, and only one of them does that; aside from that, if you don't romance one, they're really not very important at all.
ME2 improved on this not at all, with the whole Horizon scene, and ME3 is making it even worse by having one be a Spectre. So, they seem to be pretty much inseperable from being "Shepard, but less so" throughout the whole series. And on Jacob's side, he's ex-Alliance and never stops acting like it. Miranda was distinctly Cerberus and Jack was distinctly something on her own, and neither was overlooked. It's not just about "badass alien" status.

the VS doesn't need fixing. Not being alien has SOMETHING to do with it, but it's not the whole reason. it's teh same with Jacob. The Alien squaddies outside of Liara in ME1 have some sort of quest they need help with, prototype LM's. does the VS need anything? to quote Ashley, "nah, I'm good." Don't need fixing? then most players think you're boring. They act like soldiers, handle themselves, and are, you know, SPECTRE's. I'm with the person you quoted, I hope they over shadow everyone to an extent, they got EXCLUDED from ME2 almost completely so they deserve to push some of the other squaddies to the back and show of their Spectre missions and medals and improved skills. If anyone deserves it, the VS does.

[Xilizhra]

IsaacShep wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The most important thing they do is die, and only one of them does that

Hell yeah, it's only like one of the most memorable if not the most memorable moment of ME1. Who the hell apart from ultra-hardcore fans even remembers about Tali "walking Codex" Zorah's geth data mini-side-quest from ME1?

Okay, great. So what memorable moment does the one we're stuck with for the rest of the series get?

does the VS need anything? to quote Ashley, "nah, I'm good." Don't need fixing? then most players think you're boring. They act like soldiers, handle themselves, and are, you know, SPECTRE's.

If they don't have anything Shepard can be involved with, it's not interesting. The net effect for many people is to just turn them into people who follow you around and shoot, without having any real lives of their own beyond a few conversations. Sure, some people can get plenty of enjoyment from that, but it's unfair to tell those who can't that they're just control freaks who need to fix people for its own sake.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 04 octobre 2011 - 03:52 .

[Collider]

I'm so ultra hardcore, I can remember a sidequest from a game.