106 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Well yeah, instead of writting **** off you could've written that.

I know laecraft. The amount of effort would differ, but the results wouldn't.

Neither did Tali or Garrus. Their main asset in ME1 was being colorful aliens. ME2 is a different story, characters get presented better overall (yet they were still exceptions, Grunt for example whos presentation didn't help the fact he wasn't a great character).

Colorful, anyway. At least enough to claim a substantial fanbase.

As classy as Xilizhra's **** off?

I take some pride in mine not being sexist.

[Iclonic]

Collider wrote...

Tali provided unique evidence against Saren & Benezia that only someone very tech skilled (particularly geth tech) could have acquired.

That had great impact - leading to Shepard being made a spectre and being allowed to pursue Kaidan.

This is true. A lot of people forget that Tali is the sole reason why you were deemed fit to become a SPECTRE and prove Saren's act of treason. 

Collider wrote...
Garrus protected Michel who had information about Fist. Although, so did Wrex, so Garrus is overall less important.

All of the ME1 squad mates were important in their own way, at least depending on what you do.

At least Garrus was involved in trying to prove Saren's Guilt.  

But, I still favor both Tali and Garrus. Thank god they've both been through it all. 

[jeweledleah]

Xilizhra wrote...

I cannot believe, I'm agreeing with AD, but main issue with VS (and Jacob) is that they don't really need Shepard. they do in fact have their own lives and they deal with them on their own just fine, thank you very much. they are there as Shepard's partners not students, followers, worshipers, etc. and considering that Shepard is put on this giant pedestal by everyone else - how dare they be someone that is, gasp - equal? Wrex is that also, to some degree, but he's a cool alien. Miranda was supposed to have been that, but she goes from - you have to prove your worth, to all hail great Shepard, very abruptly.

There's no shame in needing people. Shepard needed everyone to accomplish the suicide mission. Since generally, you won't switch to another character to play their personal missions, the only way Shepard can get deeply involved in knowing someone is to help them accomplish something. And why is that bad? Why should those who do need Shepard's help be criticized as somehow lesser? As I said, Shepard needs them too. We all need each other.

its not wrong to need Shepard.  but squadmates who apparently cannot get anywhere without Shepards help get rated higher then those who don't, but accept assistance anyways, as equals.  and you know, Tali was almost that (I was going to catch the next availabel transport - I didn't expect you to help)  and then they had to go and ruin it with her general default hero worship of Shepard.

that is the issue,  people don't like squadmates who don't relaly need their help, who don't need to be fixed by shepard.  and before you mention Alistair?  Alistair need warden to help him.  big time.  his sister - that key point where warden not only helps alistair find her but determins how Alistair ends up viewing the world from then on - still through pink shades of idealism, or with more cynical view.

Ashley,Kaidan and Jacob?  they figured it all out on their own  and apparently that makes them boring.  me?  I like that.  i like it that there's a sence of partnership, rather then dependance. 

[Collider]

I'm not really worried about much in regards to screentime/importance of characters.
And nothing about squadmates' independence or dependence on Shepard has bothered me much.

I will say this though: Don't make Garrus (or anyone else) a canon friend again.

[Xilizhra]

its not wrong to need Shepard. but squadmates who apparently cannot get anywhere without Shepards help get rated higher then those who don't, but accept assistance anyways, as equals. and you know, Tali was almost that (I was going to catch the next availabel transport - I didn't expect you to help) and then they had to go and ruin it with her general default hero worship of Shepard.

Well, think about it. There are practical reasons why they can't solve most of their problems themselves; most of them are fighting merc platoons that would probably kill them if they went solo. I suppose Jack didn't know about them at first, but I don't see how she could have gotten a bomb that big herself. Tali would have been screwed had she actually gone to the trial alone, both from not having representation and from the large numbers of geth on the Alarei. Legion's loyalty mission was a hugely important military operation that'd bring great benefits to everyone opposed to the Reapers. The only one who might have been able to accomplish his LM on his own, realistically, is Grunt, and he didn't know he'd be able to until everyone was on Tuchanka.

Oh, and Thane. I suppose you could say Thane only brought Shepard for emotional support. But he's just one person, and really, I find it eminently forgiveable.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 04 octobre 2011 - 04:35 .

[flemm]

jeweledleah wrote...
Ashley,Kaidan and Jacob?  they figured it all out on their own  and apparently that makes them boring.  me?  I like that.  i like it that there's a sence of partnership, rather then dependance. 

Eh, I think you're really stretching this point tbh. Jacob needs Shepard as much as anyone else for his LM. In the case of Ashley/Kaidan, it's really more an absence of content than anything else. If they had any missions, those missions would be Shep helping them with something.

Modifié par flemm, 04 octobre 2011 - 04:39 .

[shepskisaac]

Xilizhra wrote...
Colorful, anyway. At least enough to claim a substantial fanbase.

Yes yes, Tali fanbase is substantial and famous indeed.

Xilizhra wrote...
I take some pride in mine not being sexist.

Why can't we be all as perfect as you?

[Xilizhra]

Yes yes, Tali fanbase is substantial and famous indeed.

Yes, and?

Why can't we be all as perfect as you?

It's just inevitable. Although the line between "perfect" and "sexist" is rather wide.

[shepskisaac]

Xilizhra wrote...
Yes, and?

Figure it out

Xilizhra wrote...
It's just inevitable. Although the line between "perfect" and "sexist" is rather wide.

As it is between "perfect" and "**** off"

[Xilizhra]

Figure it out

So, what, is it Insult-Your-Own-Side Day in Isaacland?

As it is between "perfect" and "**** off"

Also that.

[Iclonic]

Isaac and Xilizhra, can you both kindly make nice? :l

[shepskisaac]

Xilizhra wrote...

So, what, is it Insult-Your-Own-Side Day in Isaacland?

So what is it, Looking-For-Argument Decade in Xilizhraville?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 04 octobre 2011 - 04:47 .

[rapscallioness]

flemm wrote...

None of the ME1 characters really do all that much, tbh (in ME1). So that's really not a great criteria for evaluating them. Clearly their appeal isn't primarily anchored in doing stuff.

No they don't. They're all pretty much equally interesting in ME1. In ME2 you got to see some growth w/ Tali and Garrus, which was cool. You also got to meet new characters that were also interesting in their own ways. I wouldn't trade any of them.

But we don't get to see sh*t from the VS in ME2. I have no idea what's going on with them. No idea what interesting things may be doing. No idea how their character has grown. All we got was some 2 minute cameo where Shepard got cussed out.

Because they didn't want them to accidentally die off. That was B.S.! How would Tali or Garrus fans have felt?

In ME2 Tali had a good role. Hers was actually interesting this time. Poor Garrus, after the recruitment it all went down hill from there into boring as hell. And I love Garrus!

But Kaidan and Jacob get sh*t on for inexplicable reasons.

Kaidan had a very interesting back story w/the brain camp that helped me understand the whole idea behind humans and biotics, and how things were set up in this new ME world. How the corporations worked; the corruption and inside stuff that we needed as players to navigate this new world. Beyond that I can't say because we didn't get a chance to see him in ME2 except for Horizon. It was only 2 minutes, yet ppl are still arguing about it.

Jacob was running around stopping biological warfare from hitting the Citadel. Was a part of the Corsairs which was new info to my Shepard. And was the only one that spoke openly about what Shepard had gone thru w/ the death and resurrection bit. The only one...and this is w/out the romancing. He also had one of the most interesting loyalty missions.

Kaidan and Jacob are just as interesting and important to the player being anchored in the ME world as any other one. I don't know what the reason is for this grief they get

Should the VS overshadow? Well, BW already said the whole reason they cut them out of ME2 was to guarantee they'd be around for the story in ME3. So, it souunds like they are going to overshadow because of whatever story BW has written. And already you've got the Shadow Broker and the 2nd human Spectre. So they'll probably get more lines than the others in ME3.

[Xilizhra]

IsaacShep wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So, what, is it Insult-Your-Own-Side Day in Isaacland?

So what is it, Looking-For-Argument Decade in Xilizhraville?

There's no moment in no day in which I'm not looking for an argument.

[ADLegend21]

@Drone223 you said it, I do think the "you're a traitor" was a bit much but beyond that I can't be mad at them for Horizon.

@DNI Your'e right Tali is ahero in the migrant fleet, in fact Shepard uses that to cover up a war crime of epic proportions to satisfy Tali's loyalty requirement so she doesn't die. She can very well use that to pull some weight and get her father's spot. Hell some people want her to take it. I'd welcome Admiral Tali'Zorah because she's doing something on a large scale, same as I'd love General Garrus. Everyone from ME1 but them is super important: VS is a spectre, Wrex rules his species,and Liara's the Shadow Broker. Come on "Team Dextro" Step your importance up.

[Iclonic]

jreezy wrote...

Iclonic wrote...

Isaac and Xilizhra, can you both kindly make nice? :l

Make nice? On BSN? Ha!

Someone's got to believe right? Naive. Trust me. I know.  

[jeweledleah]

flemm wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
Ashley,Kaidan and Jacob?  they figured it all out on their own  and apparently that makes them boring.  me?  I like that.  i like it that there's a sence of partnership, rather then dependance. 

Eh, I think you're really stretching this point tbh. Jacob needs Shepard as much as anyone else for his LM. In the case of Ashley/Kaidan, it's really more an absence of content than anything else. If they had any missions, those missions would be Shep helping them with something.

its the sence of how the missions are done.

Ash tells Shepard she likes herself just the way she is - she has delt with her personal issues long ago.
Kaidan tells shepard that what's done is done - he has learned from his experiences at BAAt and moved on.
Jacob asks Shepard with about the same mood as Tali - more to let him know that something is up and it would benice if they could check it out, or if he could get leave to check it out onhis own.  and in the end of the loyalty mission? Jacob pretty much makes up his mind about dealing with his Father. he choses not to shoot him. 
yes, its Shepard helping them with something its always shepard helping out, but there's a difference between, help me Shepard you are my only hope and, you know, dude, i woudln't mind some assistance, but I could also go ahead and do it on my own, no sweat.

[shepskisaac]

Xilizhra wrote...

There's no moment in no day in which I'm not looking for an argument.

Just checking. Keep up the 'good' work!

[Xilizhra]

IsaacShep wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There's no moment in no day in which I'm not looking for an argument.

Just checking. Keep up the 'good' work!

And as everyone has clearly seen, the Gay Agenda really needs to get it together. Why don't we start working together in advocating for ME3 squadmates' bisexuality again?

[shepskisaac]

Xilizhra wrote...

And as everyone has clearly seen, the Gay Agenda really needs to get it together. Why don't we start working together in advocating for ME3 squadmates' bisexuality again?

As you can see in my sig, I'm always promoting

[darthnick427]

Well it's fair to say they will to some extent. The VS was barely in ME2 at all so they will have the most back story, Liara a little less since she got the LotSB DLC. Wrex should get more content too since he was barely in ME2 also. Garrus and Tali have been with you in two games but then again we don't know what they've been up to in the months since Arrival. I have faith Bioware will try their best to make all the back stories as long and detailed as possible while keeping all of the characters stories close in length.

[Comsky159]

I don't really care, as long as Bioware provides sufficient time for each character to wind up. I was totally ready to move away from Ashley/Kaiden after ME1 so I don't really care how much depth and time goes into their reconstruction though more's still better of course. As long as no characters are neglected because it's been perceived that they've received their "assigned time" as proposed by Mr Issac (without the slightest bias I'm sure) I have no problem.

Modifié par Comsky159, 04 octobre 2011 - 06:18 .

[Dariustwinblade]

I hope so more for Liara than any one else.

I am already pissed the VS is a perma squadmember but Liara isnt confirmed.