Reposting a repost, since if I'm going to repeat myself, I may as well do so directly:-
I'm going to repost here what I said at
CVG's coverage of the comment/article:-
I wrote...
Saying that they need to marry the two together just says to me that they've missed the point entirely and are (as usual of BioWare lately) trying to have their cake and eat it too by both appealing to the hardcore RPG fanbase that loved Origins, and the mainstream gamer who prefers things simpler. And you can't have both, it just won't work.
And the fact is, in some ways DA:O was already a blend of old-school Baldur's Gate style RPG and more modern games. It had the gameplay and style of an old RPG like Baldur's Gate, but was still more accessible and not as deep, while employing more modern gaming conventions, but not too much to the point of feeling overly watered-down or dumbed down. Marrying DA:O and DA2 is just going to still result in a more watered down, weaksauce game. And this attitude of BioWare's lately (a company who I used to love and respect a lot) I getting tiresome. DA2 lost them the "free pass" they got with me where I simply bought their latest game because it was them, and pretty much killed the Dragon Age IP for me. It completely squandered, ruined and wasted a gaming franchise that had a lot of potential to be a modern day BG and a series with some meat to it for the sake of selling out to the casual console gamers with only the second game in. I went from somebody who had not only bought almost every BioWare game up until then, but also had all the DLC and expansions for them too. DA2 simply gathers dust for me and I've bought no DLC at all, and don't plan to. I'm not giving a company more money who stabs me in the back as a loyal fan for the sake of branching out.
And that's the biggest issue of all, IMO: not so much that the game was poor and disappointing, but that the developers clearly engineered and sabotaged it to be that way. If you read various interviews with the likes of Mike Laidlaw and other devs prior to lauch, you clearly see that they intentionally damn-near rebooted the thing, changing the entire look and style of it to branch out to casual gamers by amping up the action, cutting depth and customisation, making it more for the console than the PC, etc. DA2 wasn't a mistake, it was a deliberate screw-job on the parts of the people behind it, and the only reason they're admitting that it's a bad game is because the gamble didn't pay off like they hoped it would.
While I'm not going to say that BioWare should stop wanting to grow their audience and branch out to appeal to not just the nerdier RPG fan, they definitely do need to stop God-damn sabotaging their existing IPs in order to suit the CoD and Gears audience out there just for the sake of $$$. If they want to make a simpler, military-based action RPG to reach this crowd then they shoulddo so, but keep the deeper RPGs as they were originally meant to be for the audience they were meant for. Because as an RPG nerd it just feels like BioWare is intentionally thrusting the knife in lately for the sake of an audience that is already more than well catered for.
...and...
For me isn't the issue of them "making mistakes" or "faltering" at all really. Everybody makes mistakes. Not every game studio can produce a winner every time. In fact, it's damn rare that they do. BioWare was actually lucky to constantly produce as much gold as they have for so long without slipping, and they should be commended for that during that period.
Again, the issue is that they deliberately make a conscious decision to make the changes they did to Dragon Age 2 and have been making a noticed shift away from their previous nerdier and deeper leanings towards a more casual, mainstream and simpler approach of appealing to the masses. This can even be seen in the changes between Mass Effect and its sequel as well, though on not quite as grand a scale, largely thanks to the original game already being an action RPG with TPS elements in the first place that was born on a console. The point is, there's been a definite shift from the company at around the time EA took the reigns. Since then they seem far more concerned about branching out, appealing to the hardcore CoD/Gears/Halo audience, etc. and it seems they are starting to make their games more with bringing greater numbers in than for the existing fans. Very much an out with the old, in with the new approach, since it's a greater audience to cater too, a safer bet and more $$$ for them. It's not uncommon with AAA game developers as a whole lately to be honest, but it's a shame to see a company that didn't resort to such pandering in the past now falling into the same trap.
That said, at the same time they seem to want to keep their old audience as well to a degree, so their games are thiskind of "have your cake and eat it too" mishmash of their RPG roots mixed with more action, simplicity, etc. resulting in these story-driven action games with mild RPG elements instead of strong RPGs. The problem with this approach is that they're never going to pull it off. The likes of DA2 are too simple and dumbed down to appeal to a hardcore RPG gamer, yet still too complex, convoluted and involved for the average CoD player. On top of that, the things they have to remove and add to make the game appeal more to a more casual shooter fan are the very things that will largely put off their existing audience. In the end, they end up not really pleasing anybody.
And it's also making their games generic. Most AAA titles these days are these story-driven, semi-cinematic action games with mild RPG elements. The hybridization of once more defined genres is just resulting in a bunch of AAA titles these days that are becoming more and more the shame. Action games are becoming more and more cinematic, story-driven and adding more customisation and light RPG elements as a trend. BioWare already had these things, but they're simply coming at the same point from the opposite angle: by adding more action and making their once complex RPG elements simpler and more accessible. In a few years there's going to likely be some genre fatigue and the genre fatigue will not be one specific genre, but that of the hybrid. I'm not saying that this trend hasn't produced some great games in the process, but it's resulting in a distinct lack of variety and real innovation as a whole.
And to prove it isn't just us at the BSN that feel similarly. from the CVG comments:-
The_KFD_Case wrote...
Too little, too late for me I'm afraid. I'm done with the Dragon Age franchise. Mass Effect 3 will be the last BioWare game I buy upon release for the foreseeable future. If I buy DA3 it will not be upon release, it will most certainly be after a price cut, and it will be well after gaming media and private user reviews have perforated the internet. DA2 turned out to be so insipid that I still haven't returned to it after finishing the first chapter - I now doubt whether I ever will complete that game.
KieranTC wrote...
Really BioWare? When you spend around a year developing a game and shipping it thinking we wouldn't notice how poor it was, that says you were more surprised by how many people pulled you up on how poor your work was.
Dragon Age: Origins is one of my favourite games of this gen, the depth and game play is astonishing and Dragon Age 2 is a very dumbed down attempt at that. They took the things that made DA:O so great and replaced it with a generic RPG that had absolutely no soul.....don't even get me started on how poor the story was either.
My hope for Dragon Age 3 is this: Dragon Age: Origins in every single way but with Dragon Age 2's graphics.
Bring back the Origins, bring back the in-depth inventory, weapon and armour you acquire, bring back the big open world for us to explore, bring back interesting and exciting companions, bring back a story of such depth that it's worthy of the BioWare name.
Don't fob us off again BioWare with your generic bull**** and spend a few years making the game.
SWiscool wrote...
@TerrorK and KieranTC,
Boy, you two nailed it. Couldn't agree more.
I was also a die-hard Bioware fan, and DA2 killed that in one extravagant swipe. Obviously a company needs to survive and make money, and clearly there's more money to be had in casual, uncomplicated gaming. But why butcher an IP whose sole purpose was to reinvigorate the traditional RPG? Couldn't DA2 have been a console spinoff?
Ah well, nothing more to say really. I've got no faith in DA3, though.
richardr wrote...
Some astoundingly astute comments here, and they pretty much some up my thoughts on how Bioware dropped the ball. I liked DA:O and was looking forward to its sequel, which I don't think could have disappointed me any more really. I understand the desire to spread out and garner new fans for a series, too often the 'dumbing down' approach is taken. I liked Morrowind and for Oblivion they changed a lot of things that in my eyes worked. For Skyrim the new changes may work and certainly some look very good, but some are just bad. Removing attributes? Why? Don't Bethesda know that people like RPGs to have attributes?
DA2 took a simplified approach and thought that people wouldn't care or notice. We did and they're shocked that we did. RPGs are RPGs and people like them for certain reasons. If you change what people liked then they won't like it. It's pretty obvious. Couldn't really care about a DA:3 now and am still cautious about any Bioware games. To the point that I won't buy any new.
_Marty_ wrote...
Bioware need to come here and read this thread - some spot on comments, that I totally agree with.
DA2 is one of, if not the biggest gaming disappointment for me, and I really struggle how people can gleen any enjoyment from it. It's tired, lifeless, dull and insipid, and worst of all, a far cry from DA:O. It pains when when I even think about it in fact...
I'm truly worried that Mass Effect 3 goes the same way - there are already several things about ME2 that I didn't like, unnecessary changes to ME1, and I really hope they don't continue down this path...
evilhippo wrote...
This.
The fact is Bioware can either make an RPG or an 'Action Game', it cannot make both. For me the deal breakers were the absurdly speeded up combat animations and the cheesy poses that made the whole think look like "Mortal Kombat with a bit of dialogue"
To be honest this was so screamingly obvious that quite simply I do not believe a word that Bioware's PR machine says: "Surprise?" What is surprising about the reaction of core RPG players of a previously highly successful format to Bioware making the franchise into something very different?
I very much doubt they are really 'surprised', they are just spinning this to hide the fact they made a cold cash calculation that changing the game to make it more "accessible" would increase market share... not that I have any objections to making money but I am dubious how much the riot on metacritic was really so hard to anticipate.
However if they have concluded too many of their 'core' have abandoned the franchise and headed off to Witcher 2 (a serious RPG if there ever was!), never to return, then that explains the rather cack-handed PR spinning
DA:O was about engaging characterization... DA2 was about the combat. Morrigan and Leliana and Alistair were *interesting*... the toons in DA2 were collision boxes that no one gave a damn about.
Modifié par Terror_K, 05 octobre 2011 - 03:38 .
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