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Adept powers vs Shields and barriers?


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#126
tonnactus

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Shepard the Leper wrote...



ME tries to be a TPS.


This is as true as claiming that Fallout want to be a first person shooter...

Disabling enemies playes a far bigger role. Not only biotic powers do that,but also tech power like sabotage and damping...
And it covered all types of enemies,including geth colossi...
In the first game,cover was optional due powers like immunity and barrier(and armor that was more then a decoration for a included shield battery) while in the second its necessary to surivive.
Sure,that and stat based weapon damage and accuracy are just typical for tps games.

Modifié par tonnactus, 08 octobre 2011 - 04:38 .


#127
Shepard the Leper

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Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

Your point, not Bioware's. First ME was described as an action RPG, second was defined as a story driven game with a lot more action that first ME. Actually there's also a whole debate on this forum, so unless you're some kind of god of wisdom your words on this are just not more worthy than anyone's.


I'm talking about the combat system only. I don't see what the story or dialog have got to do with combat. And it is NOT my point. It's the goal of ME's combat/gameplay system.

Casey Hudson: "I think we’ve come full-circle in terms of capturing an amazing 3rd person shooter experience in a game where you also control a diverse squad and have access to spectacular powers.  There’s really nothing in the world like ME3 combat."

You have all rights to like playing that way but the game was also meant to play full HUD (as seen in a gameplay video of the first ME and simply in the game's instructions). The reason was probably to enlarge target gamers without loosing old bioware's fans. And that possibilty was kept in ME2.
About the adept class even ingame description state:
"Adepts are biotic specialists, capable of disabling and killing enemies with raw biotic power. While they lack advanced combat training, they are the best at defeating enemies without firing a shot. They are outfitted with L5x implants that can spawn a micro-singularity, damaging enemies and pulling them into the air."
But perhaps they just forgot the "but should not do it on ennemies with anti-weapons barriers unless you are a PNJ during a cinematic, then you can even destroy 3 YMIR Mech with biotic punches" part after "defeating enemies without firing a shot"...


The option to pause the game is there to make things easier - it isn't part of the combat system. Unlike the average TPS gameplay, in ME you have to command a small squad and you have access to special abilities. Activating the HUD makes those things easier, but the game is a lot more fun to play (and you can be more effective) without pausing. I recommend to try it if you haven't done so already. Watching an action movie and pressing the *pause* button all the time is a pretty bad experience ...

"Adepts are biotic specialist, capable of disabling and killing enemies with biotic power." = 100 % true, but it doesn't say Adepts can or should ONLY use biotic power.

"Adepts are the best at defeating enemies without firing a shot." = also 100 % true, but it also doesn't say Adepts can or should ONLY use biotic power.

You can also say "Infiltrators can kill enemies without getting seen". Which is perfectly true, but Infiltrators can do a lot more than that. It's only something that separates them from the other classes, just like biotic powers do for the Adept class. ME is about using weapons and powers, not one or the other.

Actually I don't play insanity precisely because of those plain immunity (instead of reduced but still working as intended effect), which is a shame as it doesn't just strip ennemies of shields but also dampen or suppress some of their moves, and that too easy fights are as boring as shooter ones (which it turns when you can't use your powers).


Are you talking about ME1 or 2? And you can always use powers and weapons in both ME games, there isn't a single encounter in which you cannot.

And my points is mainly about powers not working which is frustrating to hell. Imagine yourself using a gun with a 1 meter range, you would find it stupid, don't you? That's the same (actually, I remember seeing some sniper players on this forum complaining about real sniping being removed from ME2 too).


Powers always work if you use the right one(s). In ME1, 10% of the Adept's total damage comes from biotic powers; enemy fire can easily be reduced up to 100% by using biotic powers. The ME2 Adepts can easily inflict 60-70% of their total damage through biotic powers; and they can reduce enemy fire by 50% (on Insanity, below Veteran those percentages change). ME2's system is superior, it balances weapons and powers. Biotics have become deadly and can be used more often (better gameplay), their CC effects have been reduced (considerably) to compensate (there will be enemies who will fight back - which is also better gameplay).

Is it really that frustrating to shoot for two seconds and then CC / kill the enemy with biotic powers? To me that's better than using one power to CC an enemy and shoot for twenty seconds to kill it, like in ME1.

Minus the game itself describes them as not have to rely on weapons.
And I think you should just go read your ME games instructions on the HUD part, then you'll see if your vision of gameplay is the only one they created.


I already answered those questions.

#128
Kakita Tatsumaru

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Shepard the Leper wrote...
I'm talking about the combat system only. I don't see what the story or dialog have got to do with combat. And it is NOT my point. It's the goal of ME's combat/gameplay system.

Casey Hudson: "I think we’ve come full-circle in terms of capturing an amazing 3rd person shooter experience in a game where you also control a diverse squad and have access to spectacular powers.  There’s really nothing in the world like ME3 combat."

You are quoting from ME3 where they are trying to get attention from COD players. I'd like you to quote what they said about HUD plays for ME1, then you'll see that it was done for those who wants a more RPGish experience.

The option to pause the game is there to make things easier - it isn't part of the combat system. Unlike the average TPS gameplay, in ME you have to command a small squad and you have access to special abilities. Activating the HUD makes those things easier, but the game is a lot more fun to play (and you can be more effective) without pausing. I recommend to try it if you haven't done so already. Watching an action movie and pressing the *pause* button all the time is a pretty bad experience ...

Not just to make things easier, even attended to be used to aim ennemies for shooting (as written in the games instructions). That's probably the reason why in ME1 accuracy also worked RPG-wise (which was lost in ME2).
And I've already played FPS (bioshock) and TPS (gears of war) and liked none of them precisely because I find that kind of action boring, I'm more into turn based game or fighting games.

"Adepts are biotic specialist, capable of disabling and killing enemies with biotic power." = 100 % true, but it doesn't say Adepts can or should ONLY use biotic power. 

"Adepts are the best at defeating enemies without firing a shot." = also 100 % true, but it also doesn't say Adepts can or should ONLY use biotic power.

That's a moot point, as they doesn't say we should use weapons either, so instead of looking at what they doesn't say, I prefer to look at what they actually says.

You can also say "Infiltrators can kill enemies without getting seen". Which is perfectly true, but Infiltrators can do a lot more than that. It's only something that separates them from the other classes, just like biotic powers do for the Adept class. ME is about using weapons and powers, not one or the other.

But at least they can do what they're supposed to. And that's why class are there: If I wanted both weapons and biotic it was the definition of vanguard, not adept.

Are you talking about ME1 or 2? And you can always use powers and weapons in both ME games, there isn't a single encounter in which you cannot.

ME2. And you're speaking of encounter where the problem is single enemies.

Powers always work if you use the right one(s). In ME1, 10% of the Adept's total damage comes from biotic powers; enemy fire can easily be reduced up to 100% by using biotic powers. The ME2 Adepts can easily inflict 60-70% of their total damage through biotic powers; and they can reduce enemy fire by 50% (on Insanity, below Veteran those percentages change). ME2's system is superior, it balances weapons and powers. Biotics have become deadly and can be used more often (better gameplay), their CC effects have been reduced (considerably) to compensate (there will be enemies who will fight back - which is also better gameplay).

Actually, in ME1 you didn't have to shoot most of the time: throw was instant kill, and control powers were death sentences as squadmates did their share of work.
ME2 system may be superior in terms on numbers, it still remain more frustrating.

Is it really that frustrating to shoot for two seconds and then CC / kill the enemy with biotic powers? To me that's better than using one power to CC an enemy and shoot for twenty seconds to kill it, like in ME1.

Frustration comes from being unable to do what you can normally. I suppose it like not having ammo anymore for a soldier (and I saw soldier players complaining about some weapons for that reason, so I suppose it can be annoying for anyone).
And besides stop assuming I was doing the shooting in ME1, as squadmates were doing their job back then, so I almost never have to shoot.