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[Quething]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

From the contextual clues in the dialogue, this is what I know happened:

1. Isabela was visiting Hawke's Estate for the first time when they knock boots on camera ("So this is where you live. Not bad.")

This one is a bit tricky; it's possible (actually I do it a lot ) to trigger Isabela's "you should change your locks" ambient line outside the Hawke estate long before you sleep with her. And that line demands that she's been in the estate quite a few times, if not legitimately or when Hawke is there. Arguably that doesn't completely conflict with Isabela's pre-coital line, which only demands that she's never been there in Hawke's presence, but it's still a completely awkward thing to say if so.

For a couple of my Hawkes I head-canon that the estate scene is a flashback, of sorts; it's actually a scene that happened at some point early in the coma-jump, probably just after Hawke moved in. It's just that it's such an important moment that Varric takes the time to address it in detail once he gets to the whole "by the way three years later Hawke and Rivaini were shagging" bit, rather than glossing over it with the rest of the coma period.

Of course it's still weird if it's their first time, with Hawke just busting out with that "love" straight off (damn the bugged dialog), but it's also weird if it's not, because both Izzy's post-coital responses ("if you ever want to do it again"/"I was curious and now my curiosity is sated") are awkward if they've been hooking up for a while.

Which is why this is where I bring in the whole "screw the dialog wheel and this 'canon' nonsense, I'm writing fanfic" solution.

[hoorayforicecream]

Quething wrote...

Of course it's still weird if it's their first time, with Hawke just busting out with that "love" straight off (damn the bugged dialog),

I don't particularly think it was that weird. If they'd been seeing each other in a romantic sense, but hadn't gotten around to the sex yet (through whatever circumstance... a monster attack, urgent business, an unexpected illness, Hawke is more concerned about her/his sibling, etc.), then it would be fine. Imagine, if you will, a Hawke playing hard to get who teases Isabela for a while... a period of weeks, or maybe months. Isabela enjoys the chase, and finally decides she's had enough and goes to seduce Hawke (again?) in her newly renovated estate one night. She happens to be successful (this time), and the story unfolds. It makes more sense to me than the rivalry Isabela scene... they really needed to write alternative seduction lines for a rivalry romance with her.

It's clear that there's was some sort of Hawke-initiated flirtation going on already (otherwise Isabela won't show up at all). The only way it wouldn't make sense is if Isabela had very little to do with Hawke during the timeskip, but that doesn't seem likely given the codex entries. The dialogue is a little ham-handed with that bit there, but it was less of a weirdness alert to me than Merrill's post-sex declaration of love (especially a rivalry Merrill).

Obviously, it doesn't work 100% for every situation, but it doesn't necessarily have to, right? As long as there's enough of a reasonable explanation, it's good enough.

[Gervaise]

Could the delay in having sex be anything to do with Hawke preferring to have a bit of privacy? I don't think Hawke is able to buy back the estate straight away, so during that time is still sharing the 2 room slum with Gamlen, whilst Isabella is in the equally thin walled Hanged Man. Then after moving in to the new home, Mother Hawke probably wants to spend time doing it up and making it homely.

May be Isabella recognises Hawke is a potential good friend and doesn't want to mess things up. She also mentions that she likes to keep a distance between herself and the people she works with in case they respect her less/think they can get away with things just because they've bedded her. So initially she sticks with just flirting until she feels she has got past this stage.

I thought it was probably the first time in the mansion because of the initial response from Isabella when Hawke challenges her over leaving. It definitely seemed like "I wondered what it would be like with you and curiosity satisfied" unless she was just referring to what it would feel like doing it in a big mansion.

Also when my Hawke plays hard to get and then turns sex down, she makes some comment like "I'll leave you to the weak (can't remember the exact words) Hightown women", which I suppose could be implying "now you think you're too good for me" but I took to mean "you're not man enough to take me on", which was a bit ironic in my Hawke's case because he'd spent the last 3 years realising he's gay and the flirting with Isabella was because he was in denial.

[Wulfram]

I tend to assume that quite a few of the quests and events in fact happened at some point in the time skips, but were relocated for Varric's convenience. It makes more sense than having everything happening in a week.

Though really there should have been an option to take Izzy up on her offer in Act 1.

[wright1978]

I roleplay it in Spock Wrath of Khan Parlance ' if we go "by the book". like Lieutenant Saavik, hours could seem like days'.

By that i mean for relationships to make any sense i have to roleplay both 3 year timeskips into three month time skips.

As for the 'love convo' i see it as being the first time they've hooked up. Given the fact Isabela states she doesn't sleep with her crew it makes emanent sense that she would likewise resist jumping in bed with adventuring companion. Hence by the time they give in to their passions there is reason for chat afterwards.

[Nashiktal]

I always did find it kind of funny that isabela is one of the harder companions to romance.

[Quething]

Nashiktal wrote...

I always did find it kind of funny that isabela is one of the harder companions to romance.

The hardest, IMO. You only get one chance. Miss that first flirt and she's lost. Even if you do sleep with her you have to just magically intuit that the totally non-breakup non-broken-heart option is bugged and will half-break the romance. (My kingdom for a toolset, dammit.)

I'm okay with not sleeping with her in Act 1, if it really takes place over the course of a week/month/whatever, but it's bizarre that you can't even flirt with her. Everyone else has at least one heart dialog before the Deep Roads to get things rolling. Her romance really does feel a bit incomplete. I'd love to see what they'd have done with it (the Rivalry half in particular, which yeah, really needs a separate love scene and different flirts) if they'd had a full dev cycle to work with.

[Maria Caliban]

Victorita9 wrote...

Right before the first 3 year time skip Isabela heavily flirts with Hawke, but the player cannot initiate anything. Then after the three year time skip it's super easy to bed isabela. In the dragon age universe what would have prevented Isabela from trying to sleep with hawke during the time skip?

I assume she did just that. What makes you think otherwise?

[tmp7704]

jlb524 wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

In my headcanon its because Isabela was still trying to decide if she wanted Hawke or Bethany...

Why wouldn't she go for both?

*not at the same time, of course*

Why not at the same time -- if men can have their fantasies about bedding twins, so can Isabela.

[PurpleWhisper]

Could be a few things really. Isabela comes off as shallow but there seems to be a few issues bubbling arond that head of hers.

Maybe shes wanted to be sure of Hawke and her own feelings about him/her before doing anything. At the beginning Isabela is shipwrecked, alone and in lots of trouble. She has no ship or crew to reply on, only herself. Hawke stands out from everyone else and its clear he/she is on their way up but exactly what gettng involved with this character would mean is still a question mark. Is Hawke dangerous, has a jealous/evil streak, the kind to hold grudges etc? Perhaps Isabela needed time to be sure of Hawke before getting involved. Because even she must know if she sleeps with him/her she may not be able to cast him/her aside as easily as the randomers she normally beds.

She has to work with this person if she wants to eventually get the hell out of Kirkwall and out of trouble so she'd need to know that bedding him/her wouldn't bugger that up.

Plus i think she likes Hawke. Even at that early stage. Feeling can muddle things.

[PurpleWhisper]

Quething wrote...
Of course it's still weird if it's their first time, with Hawke just busting out with that "love" straight off (damn the bugged dialog), but it's also weird if it's not, because both Izzy's post-coital responses ("if you ever want to do it again"/"I was curious and now my curiosity is sated") are awkward if they've been hooking up for a while.

I see the mention of love as curiosity on Hawke's part. Its actually Isabela who asks if Hawke is thinking about bringing feelings into it. If I was Hawke i'd be surprised Isabela even considered that a possibility and would bring the subject up purely to find out more about her feelings on the subject in general as her question clearly suggests issues. Its a rare chance to share a real conversation with her and to learn more about her. And it works. Doesn't take much prodding for Isabela to talk about her past.

And I think the reason she took so long to sleep with Hawke in the first place is partly due to her untrusting nature and partly with her 'dont mix business with pleasure' mentality.

She mentions to Merrill that as Captain she very rarely let a crew member touch her and instead insisted they had lots of 'alone time'.  Suggests she has an understanding that sleeping with someone you work with may be a bad idea. Can lead to loss of respect and worse. Hawke is too valuable of an ally for the stranded pirate to lose over a roll in the hay.  Its probably easier for her to seek out randomers that she can disgard without issue.

Isabela also mentions in a scene that she thought she'd have to watch herself around Hawke at first. Isabela has had a long past filled with treachery and betrayals. Even her own mother sold her. Is perfectly understandable to me that it would take years for Isabela to fully trust that Hawke is ok and that sleeping with her would be a fun diversion and not something that would cause a problem between them.

The fact that they work with eachother, and that Hawke is the single most powerful ally Isabela has in a city that probably feels like its closing in around her are factors that would delay Isabela's actions. I believe shes more of a thinker that she lets on most of the time.

[maxernst]

Maybe Hawke doesn't rate all that high on her list of potential partners until she discovers that everyone else in Kirkwall is psychotic.

[DreGregoire]

I never imagine things in the order they happen in the game. Far as I'm concerned the Isabela romance happens sooner than any of the others and more than likely soon after coming home from the Deep Roads, although I see no real reason why they couldn't have had it trigger even before then. Way too much happens in that one year, I think, for it all to actually happen in the fourth (?) year.

[Quething]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Victorita9 wrote...
Right before the first 3 year time skip Isabela heavily flirts with Hawke, but the player cannot initiate anything. Then after the three year time skip it's super easy to bed isabela. In the dragon age universe what would have prevented Isabela from trying to sleep with hawke during the time skip?

I assume she did just that. What makes you think otherwise?

Presumably because Victorita's Hawke would not have turned her down.

@PurpleWhisper: You make some good points - though I'm not sure I'd classify Izzy as a "thinker," exactly. I think her statement after Castillon, "as much as I plan anything," is an honest one; she basically goes with her gut as a rule. She just has pretty sophisticated instincts.

And while I can't really read the post-coital conversation that way myself, it's certainly a valid spin.