133 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

How am I acting persecuted? And coming from someone who not too long ago rather casually compared the current situation of gays and bis to that of blacks/non-whites before their emancipation, that's rather funny.

Real world issues =/= getting more emails and cameos in a game.  I am very sorry you can't get over how icky gays are, but that's a whole different bag of bananas.

But it's true that Renegades get the short end of the stick: Paragons get all the extra content, whereas the Renegades get - as Sebo would put it - a gimped troll version of the game, nothing more than the "default" game does.

You miss the emails and cameos?

Seriously, though, I fully expect rewriting the heretics to end badly even though I do it all the time.  Probably shoulda nuked the rachni, too.  Oh well.

[Sebby]

Rojahar wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

I know, right? Where'd they get the stupid idea that the good guy option should have the more peaceful and happy result?

Being naive and trusting while taking gigantic risks doesn't always result in happy results.

In a Bioware game it does.

Sad but true. People treat this like some kind of "Paragon Players v Renegade Players" thing, bying for "rewards" but as someone who plays both, I see it as tragically shallow writing. I'd like it if doing the idealist thing actually came at a cost sometimes.

Indeed, I have issues with the lopsided outcomes from a "Paragon" perspective as well. It robs the feeling that I'm making difficult decisions and just makes the outcomes utterly boring when it's all sunshine and bunnies. It's like beating a game with cheat codes,just no real sense of accomplishment.

[Zakatak757]

I don't think which option you pick will determine if it backfires on you, I think choosing an option will affect HOW it backfires on you.

Kill Heretics? Less Geth support.
Rewrite Heretics? More Geth enemies.

[AdmiralCheez]

Dave of Canada wrote...

A slight pat on the back by a Krogan or a person calling us a genocidal maniac would've been far more than what we actually got, a bubble trapped in time where nobody cares about us having killed the Rachni Queen.

The problem with that, though, is that the whole "there was a rachni queen on Noveria" thing was pretty much top-secret.  Only you, the scientists, and your squad knew about it.  And all the scientists sure as hell weren't going to talk about it.

Had the confrontation with the rachni taken place in a crowded town square, I'd be b*tching about it, too.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Renegade decisions will bring more challenges and I like it. But I don't like all of them like wiping out the Heretic Base - on the contrary of Rachni Queen!

[Collider]

The council knows about the rachni. They could have talked about it. Even fi you didn't save the original council, Anderson could mention that the new council is even more wary of you considering that you committed "genocide."

[Dave of Canada]

Zakatak757 wrote...

I don't think which option you pick will determine if it backfires on you, I think choosing an option will affect HOW it backfires on you.

Kill Heretics? Less Geth support.
Rewrite Heretics? More Geth enemies.

They'd have laid seeds for such things in Mass Effect 2 if that were the case, none of the Renegade decisions except for the Human Council had any hint of how there would be different outcomes and they essentially invalidated the benefit of the Human Council shortly afterward with a twitter message and Cerberus Daily News update.

[Valdrane78]

As for the paragon or renegade choice for the Geth, either has a chance of blowing up in your face.

Either you...
a) rewrite them, and when all is said and done they freak out that you brainwashed them
or..
you blow the crap outta them, and the rest of the Geth are pissed off you killed their brethren.

Both are outcomes that will be interesting to see happen,if they are indeed a possibility.

[ItsPhilsTime]

I think most r going to come into effect on ME4

[AdmiralCheez]

Rojahar wrote...

Except there are no cameos for Renegade when there could be.

Wreav and the colonist.  Also, Gianna is hardly a paragon exclusive.

It'd be nice if the Krogan appreciated and admired Shepard's wiping out the last of the Rachni, or maybe Shepard demanding a favor in return from Anoleis.

See my reply to Dave.

Saying there's no more of a drawback for going renegade than going paragon is like saying they shouldn't even bother having an import function or cameos. "Hey, who needed Wrex to show up in ME2? They should have left him out of ME2 no matter what." The game beats you over the head, practically telling you that you're playing wrong, when you choose the Renegade paths.

Full renegades can and mostly do still save Wrex.  The only time the game tells you that you REALLY did it wrong is when you keep the Collector Base, and the full results of that remain to be seen.

[HogarthHughes 3]

Rojahar wrote...

They don't feel like two equally valid gameplay paths or personality styles. It feels more like "Do I want to be heroic Shepard who is right and things always work out no matter what? Or dumb jerk Shepard who always screws thing up no matter what?" Renegade pretty consistently leads to you missing out or being chastized in the game. Even characters like Miranda complain if you make the Renegade choice at the end of the game, but everyone universally lavishes praise over the Paragon decision.

Hey TIM approves at least, and the red star looks cool.  Sure TIM may be a villain, but he's an awesome one (best character in the game IMO).  Not that I'm disagreeing with you though, just wanted to point out that keeping the Base isn't all bad when it comes to praise (from my perspective at least, it feels much more satisfying to keep it regardless of how the squadmates feel).

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 05 octobre 2011 - 04:00 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

How am I acting persecuted? And coming from someone who not too long ago rather casually compared the current situation of gays and bis to that of blacks/non-whites before their emancipation, that's rather funny.

Real world issues =/= getting more emails and cameos in a game.  I am very sorry you can't get over how icky gays are, but that's a whole different bag of bananas.

Just making a valid point about the acting persecuted. And for the record: I've got nothing against gays, seriously. I do imagine one coming onto me would be quite icky, though, but then again so is 9 out of 10 girls doing the exact same.

But it's true that Renegades get the short end of the stick: Paragons get all the extra content, whereas the Renegades get - as Sebo would put it - a gimped troll version of the game, nothing more than the "default" game does.

You miss the emails and cameos?

Seriously, though, I fully expect rewriting the heretics to end badly even though I do it all the time.  Probably shoulda nuked the rachni, too.  Oh well.

It's better than nothing.

[GodWood]

Dave of Canada wrote...
They'd have laid seeds for such things in Mass Effect 2 if that were the case, none of the Renegade decisions except for the Human Council had any hint of how there would be different outcomes and they essentially invalidated the benefit of the Human Council shortly afterward with a twitter message and Cerberus Daily News update.

Wait what's this?

[AdmiralCheez]

Collider wrote...

The council knows about the rachni. They could have talked about it. Even fi you didn't save the original council, Anderson could mention that the new council is even more wary of you considering that you committed "genocide."

The council thing was poorly handled on all accounts.  Kind of like Horizon.

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

It's better than nothing.

Fine, take them.  It'll shut Kelly up.

[Saaziel]

I'd take wicked looking scars and eyes over cameos any day of the weak. Also not getting e-mails is hardly backfiring , so i don't get this Vindictive vibe coming from the usual suspects.

To keep with the subject at hand: I'd think the most likely Paragon choice to backfire will be the heretic Geth rewrite. That said i never completed a Me1 (full) Paragon run; So i can't comment on that. Moreover its been way to long to remember.

However , i would be very much surprise that any One decision will backfire by it self, it will probably be a series of related choices that don't add up.

Modifié par Saaziel, 05 octobre 2011 - 03:58 .

[Labrev]

Really I think the only fair thing to do is give positive and negatives to both decisions. Their should be no outright "punishing" of either side, especially since that in itself kills replay value altogether.


I have faith that the developers/writers have at least half of brains and will do this kind of thing. And I'm sure people will still complain their decisions were not positive enough but in the end, I think it's a very simple trade.

[Dave of Canada]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

The problem with that, though, is that the whole "there was a rachni queen on Noveria" thing was pretty much top-secret.  Only you, the scientists, and your squad knew about it.  And all the scientists sure as hell weren't going to talk about it.

People in the know could've easily have mentioned it, be it from Wrex or a scientist who's working on Illium now.

Hell, some Krogan could have mentioned he heard about the news reports of no live Rachni being cloned at Noveria and how Shepard was at the facility not too long before and connected the two.

it would've been better than nothing.

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Wreav and the colonist.  Also, Gianna is hardly a paragon exclusive.

Wreav isn't a Renegade cameo, it's just a spot to fill for both sides who've happened to kill Wrex.

Ironically, the colonist was more of a slap in the face. My Renegade who wiped out the colony had to hear from the colonist about how he saved them and there's intrusive tests being done by the company on Illium.

It was a cameo by dismissing what I had done on the choice itself, it could've easily have been fixed with Liz Bayham or her mother (I forgot her name) showing up. This would've created a familiar NPC which the Renegade player would recognize rather than a nameless nobody and the NPC could be placed regardless of the colony's status.

The sad part is that the Paragon alternative of the scene with Shiala actually has an entirely different alternative should the colony have been destroyed where Shiala appears in Commando armor and says she's trying to help people but she doesn't know how.

[GodWood]

Saaziel wrote...
Also not getting e-mails is hardly backfiring.

It isn't.
That's why nobody is claiming it is.

[Dave of Canada]

GodWood wrote...

Wait what's this?

Regardless of your decision, Turians and Humans have begun to mass produce dreadnoughts and weapons. The whole "cold war" thing about the Human Council for some reason was made choice-neutral so it exists for both sides of the coin, the only difference is that everybody hates the Human Council.

[GodWood]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Regardless of your decision, Turians and Humans have begun to mass produce dreadnoughts and weapons. The whole "cold war" thing about the Human Council for some reason was made choice-neutral so it exists for both sides of the coin, the only difference is that everybody hates the Human Council.

.........

Thanks Bioware.