133 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser Shepard]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Wreav isn't a Renegade cameo, it's just a spot to fill for both sides who've happened to kill Wrex.

Ironically, the colonist was more of a slap in the face. My Renegade who wiped out the colony had to hear from the colonist about how he saved them and there's intrusive tests being done by the company on Illium.

It was a cameo by dismissing what I had done on the choice itself, it could've easily have been fixed with Liz Bayham or her mother (I forgot her name) showing up. This would've created a familiar NPC which the Renegade player would recognize rather than a nameless nobody and the NPC could be placed regardless of the colony's status.

Agreed.

The sad part is that the Paragon alternative of the scene with Shiala actually has an entirely different alternative should the colony have been destroyed where Shiala appears in Commando armor and says she's trying to help people but she doesn't know how.

On that note, is there already footage of this? Seems about as elusive as this mythical kiss of hers, with the sole exception of there being people to attest to this one's existence.

Dave of Canada wrote...

Regardless of your decision, Turians and Humans have begun to mass produce dreadnoughts and weapons. The whole "cold war" thing about the Human Council for some reason was made choice-neutral so it exists for both sides of the coin, the only difference is that everybody hates the Human Council.

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 05 octobre 2011 - 04:09 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Dave of Canada wrote...

People in the know could've easily have mentioned it, be it from Wrex or a scientist who's working on Illium now.

Hell, some Krogan could have mentioned he heard about the news reports of no live Rachni being cloned at Noveria and how Shepard was at the facility not too long before and connected the two.

it would've been better than nothing.

It would have, but I can't shake the feeling that it'd be a little contrived.

Wreav isn't a Renegade cameo, it's just a spot to fill for both sides who've happened to kill Wrex.

True.

Ironically, the colonist was more of a slap in the face. My Renegade who wiped out the colony had to hear from the colonist about how he saved them and there's intrusive tests being done by the company on Illium.

It was a cameo by dismissing what I had done on the choice itself, it could've easily have been fixed with Liz Bayham or her mother (I forgot her name) showing up. This would've created a familiar NPC which the Renegade player would recognize rather than a nameless nobody and the NPC could be placed regardless of the colony's status.

This, I think, is a legitimate point and I sort of wish they'd done it this way.

The sad part is that the Paragon alternative of the scene with Shiala actually has an entirely different alternative should the colony have been destroyed where Shiala appears in Commando armor and says she's trying to help people but she doesn't know how.

I think the problem here is that they were like LET'S GIVE THOSE B*TCHES THE ASARI.  B*TCHES LOVE ASARIS.

Oh, no.  Sorry, Shiala, but I think you're dumb and I'd kill you more often if I didn't enjoy playing as a nice person every once in a while.

[HogarthHughes 3]

Rojahar wrote...

He doesn't approve enough for Cerberus to not be trying to kill me in ME3. I consider attempting to murder me to be the worst kind of disapproval. Ultimately, that fact just seems to prove further than Paragon and Renegade is just choosing between Right Choice and Wrong Choice.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case come ME3, but we can't know for sure yet at least.

[Sebby]

GodWood wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
Regardless of your decision, Turians and Humans have begun to mass produce dreadnoughts and weapons. The whole "cold war" thing about the Human Council for some reason was made choice-neutral so it exists for both sides of the coin, the only difference is that everybody hates the Human Council.

.........

Thanks Bioware.

Yeah it's one of the last ones that was released in advance of Arrival's release. Here it is.

http://masseffect.wi...ws_-_March_2011

03/28/2011 - Systems Alliance Reverses Stance on Turian Dreadnought Construction

“In a surprise move, respected Systems Alliance admiral, Steven
Hackett, testified today before the Citadel Council that the Joint
Chiefs of the Alliance have relaxed their attitude toward the increased
construction of turian dreadnoughts. "The Alliance is behind our
councilor one hundred percent," the admiral said, a significant
departure from the Chiefs' protests of the past. "Having recently
conducted significant joint operation exercises with the turians, as
well as smaller efforts with salarians and asari, the Alliance Navy
feels the threats of the 22nd and 23rd centuries [Earth standard] will
be external to the signatories of the Treaty of Farixen." Batarian
ambassador Nel'Tarras Tilshan reacted vehemently. "The humans appear to
be falling into a bloody-minded course, and we hope they turn back.
Dreadnoughts are not for peacekeeping, they are for devastating planets!
Hackett now sides with those who are a direct threat to the batarian
people."”

[JamieCOTC]

GodWood wrote...

Ideal compromise:
All choices result in varying degrees of failure.

Reality of actual game:
All choices result in varying degrees of winning.  BW has said as much.  I'm not happy about it either. 

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 05 octobre 2011 - 04:13 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Rojahar wrote...

I don't see why some people fight tooth and nail against the suggestion that both paths should have pros and cons, instead of one always being pro and one always being con. It just seems like good writing and gameplay design to me, if Bioware is really going to trumpet there being choice and roleplaying. As it stands now, it feels like playing a Renegade is about as valid of a way to play as dying and trying to say that's your "Reapers win" playthrough.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be pros and cons to both.  The point I'm arguing is that the discrepancy between the two is not noticeable enough for me to not play renegade.  I feel like some things were handled poorly, but that doesn't mean a pure renegade run will necessarily wind up "bad."

[Kaiser Shepard]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I'm stunned, utterly stunned that people can say this when it looks like the Councilor is automatically Udina, completely eliminating one of the top three if not the top ME1 paragon choice, and it is possible that Cerberus automatically gets the Collector Base, making the ONE choice in ME2 automatically renegade.

No one seems to be able to answer that.

The answer is obviously Drew and Mass Effect: Retribution.

And the ultimate fate of the base goes both ways: Cerberus get their hand on the tech regardless of your decision, and likewise they decide to turn against you whatever you do.

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

The answer is obviously Drew and Mass Effect: Retribution.

And the ultimate fate of the base goes both ways: Cerberus get their hand on the tech regardless of your decision, and likewise they decide to turn against you whatever you do.

Still, people might feel a little cheated that Udina gets in power and Cerberus gets the tech no matter what they do.

[Sebby]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

On that note, is there already footage of this? Seems about as elusive as this mythical kiss of hers, with the sole exception of there being people to attest to this one's existence.

I haven't been able to find any footage of it, my only explanation is that the colonists dead/Shiala spared path was picked by VERY few people.

[Kaiser Shepard]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

The answer is obviously Drew and Mass Effect: Retribution.

And the ultimate fate of the base goes both ways: Cerberus get their hand on the tech regardless of your decision, and likewise they decide to turn against you whatever you do.

Still, people might feel a little cheated that Udina gets in power and Cerberus gets the tech no matter what they do.

What? So Cerberus turning on their most loyal isn't important or anything?

Seboist wrote...

I haven't been able to find any footage of it, my only explanation is that the colonists dead/Shiala spared path was picked by VERY few people.

Probably, yeah. Still, you'd think it would've turned up by now.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 05 octobre 2011 - 04:23 .

[Saaziel]

GodWood wrote...

Saaziel wrote...
Also not getting e-mails is hardly backfiring.

It isn't.
That's why nobody is claiming it is.

Not accusing you of anything , but i feel you're quoting me out of context.

The full sentence that you quoted contained this part: "so i don't get this Vindictive vibe coming from the usual suspects."

To me the cries and lamentations of The Usual Suspects, specifically on this subject , carries a significant (Damn near undeniable) undertone of coveting . And the arguments almost always flow from that : "Well they got something* , we got nothing ! Punish them Bioware!1!!1"Hence , why i feel it is vindictive.

You can disagree with my opinion, i don't claim it as fact. Maybe i got you Usual suspects completely wrong. Maybe the constant whine and complaining years after after the facts over the most insignificant of issues has a legitimate merit that is worth all this brouhaha.

* This something is Cameos & E-mail , ususally presented under the banner of "Extra content".

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

What? So Cerberus turning on their most loyal isn't important or anything?

You mean you and I aren't allowed to be pissed about the same thing for different reasons?

[mango smoothie]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I'm stunned, utterly stunned that people can say this when it looks like the Councilor is automatically Udina, completely eliminating one of the top three if not the top ME1 paragon choice, and it is possible that Cerberus automatically gets the Collector Base, making the ONE choice in ME2 automatically renegade.

No one seems to be able to answer that.

The answer is obviously Drew and Mass Effect: Retribution.

And the ultimate fate of the base goes both ways: Cerberus get their hand on the tech regardless of your decision, and likewise they decide to turn against you whatever you do.

That sure looks like they're making a "big choice," which they claimed would have consequences, into a static one in the favor of one side.

And how in the world would Cerberus get his hands on Collector tech without Shep's approval? Shep has the one ship with the Reaper IFF, and he/she blew up the Base (as a Par), so it should be impossible for TIM to get Collector tech...unless the renegade choice is suddenly canon.

That to me is worse than all three games being chock-full of minor Paragon extras: at least it's not the big choices that are stated will have a large impact.

Ya umm we have EDI who reports to TIM, we have Miranda who reports every thing to TIM, and then we have all the survilence equipment aboard Normandy. Ya I think it would be pretty esay for TIM to get IFF.

[Kaiser Shepard]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

That sure looks like they're making a "big choice," which they claimed would have consequences, into a static one in the favor of one side.

It is, just not in favor of any one side.

And how in the world would Cerberus get his hands on Collector tech without Shep's approval? Shep has the one ship with the Reaper IFF, and he/she blew up the Base (as a Par), so it should be impossible for TIM to get Collector tech...unless the renegade choice is suddenly canon.

EDI, and it seems like there was enough to salvage (also stated in Shadow Broker).

That to me is worse than all three games being chock-full of minor Paragon extras: at least it's not the big choices that are stated will have a large impact.

Shiala, the Rachni Queen and the Council are suddenly the minor decisions?

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 05 octobre 2011 - 04:32 .

[Sebby]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

There aren't even that many paragon-only cameos, are there? There's Rana Thanoptis, and Shiala, and the Rachni Emissary, and the Council, and that's all I can think of. Missing out on these few conversations did not make my renegade playthroughs feel like they were being punished. After all, if you killed people, you should expect not to meet them again.

When the game treats a Renegade Shepard as akin to having been on one big acid trip throughout ME1 and imagined doing all those things she thought she did, not only is it being punished but it makes importing a renegade save utterly pointless.

Which brings up another major flaw with the system, choices existing in vacuums. Saving/Killed the Rachni Queen for instance has no impact on the Krogan's perception of Shepard. Wrex ends up conveniently forgetting that Shepard freed the Queen and being extremely angry about it. I guess he tripped on acid or smoked dope with Renegade Shepard....

[unfringed]

mango smoothie wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I'm stunned, utterly stunned that people can say this when it looks like the Councilor is automatically Udina, completely eliminating one of the top three if not the top ME1 paragon choice, and it is possible that Cerberus automatically gets the Collector Base, making the ONE choice in ME2 automatically renegade.

No one seems to be able to answer that.

The answer is obviously Drew and Mass Effect: Retribution.

And the ultimate fate of the base goes both ways: Cerberus get their hand on the tech regardless of your decision, and likewise they decide to turn against you whatever you do.

That sure looks like they're making a "big choice," which they claimed would have consequences, into a static one in the favor of one side.

And how in the world would Cerberus get his hands on Collector tech without Shep's approval? Shep has the one ship with the Reaper IFF, and he/she blew up the Base (as a Par), so it should be impossible for TIM to get Collector tech...unless the renegade choice is suddenly canon.

That to me is worse than all three games being chock-full of minor Paragon extras: at least it's not the big choices that are stated will have a large impact.

Ya umm we have EDI who reports to TIM, we have Miranda who reports every thing to TIM, and then we have all the survilence equipment aboard Normandy. Ya I think it would be pretty esay for TIM to get IFF.

Yeah, except for the fact that EDI is unshackled and does what she wants now, Miranda is having loyalty issues with Cerberus, and surveilance isn't going to get TIM an IFF.

[Sajuro]

There is only one paragon choice that should backfire, if you convince Miranda to talk to her sister.

[Dave of Canada]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Is not the Udina option in-game renegade? And that BS about Anderson suddenly messing up, or resigning (he says in ME2 that he wouldn't resign) makes absolutely no sense.

It's neutral and does absolutely nothing mortality wise. The only difference is that putting Anderson on the seat allows Renegades to regain their Spectre status, otherwise they can't and they're stuck without it.

I'm not sure you can really say that the Council refusing to see you is any worse than the person who SAW A REAPER and said there it was a Reaper at the end of ME1 saying "Ah yes, Reapers."

Except it's almost exactly the same, the only difference is that you had a full conversation about it rather than hearing one line about them dismissing it and not seeing them. And everybody hates you. Everybody.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 05 octobre 2011 - 04:44 .