100 réponses à ce sujet

[Poubo]

Serogon wrote...

People, I'll say again. With the people seeing the energy going through the Warden, I am not talking about the battle on the tower. I'm talking about previous ones that did not take place on a secluded area with just a couple people there who already knew.

which was 400 years ago

seriously, if you don't know about how much a single battles story can change in 400 years, then im afraid youll not accept anyones reasoning other than your own.

[Shady314]

Serogon wrote...
The point was that people back then would see it and realize it back then, where it would then be known... and I actually can't remember now, how did we get on to the topic of people already knowing it?

And for the HUNDREDTH time something that people might have rumored about 4 CENTURIES AGO in a feudal society makes for a terrible source of information in the present.

EDIT: You got yourself on it with your dogged insistence that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE AT SOMETIME must have figured it out and would then go on to tell EVERYONE about it that they could and those people would make absolutely certain to pass it down through their children and so on to the present day.

Modifié par Shady314, 22 novembre 2009 - 10:47 .

[Serogon]

Shady314 wrote...

Serogon wrote...
The point was that people back then would see it and realize it back then, where it would then be known... and I actually can't remember now, how did we get on to the topic of people already knowing it?

And for the HUNDREDTH time something that people might have rumored about 4 CENTURIES AGO in a feudal society makes for a terrible source of information in the present.

I'm getting tired of having to explain everything to you. I'm not talking about it being rumored about back then and then thought of now. I'm talking about it being talked about then, confirmed, and known now.

[Shady314]

Serogon wrote...
I'm getting tired of having to explain everything to you. I'm not talking about it being rumored about back then and then thought of now. I'm talking about it being talked about then, confirmed, and known now.

And I am getting very tired of waiting for a realistic explanation from you of how it could possibly be CONFIRMED? No one can confirm this besides the Grey Wardens and we know they sure as hell haven't. That means I am being generous saying it could have been rumoured at some point.

[Poubo]

Shady314 wrote...

Serogon wrote...
The point was that people back then would see it and realize it back then, where it would then be known... and I actually can't remember now, how did we get on to the topic of people already knowing it?

And for the HUNDREDTH time something that people might have rumored about 4 CENTURIES AGO in a feudal society makes for a terrible source of information in the present.

EDIT: You got yourself on it with your dogged insistence that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE AT SOMETIME must have figured it out and would then go on to tell EVERYONE about it that they could and those people would make absolutely certain to pass it down through their children and so on to the present day.

i think i understand what he's trying to say, but i dont think he understands that the blights aren't a regular occurance, and that in the last blight, when the arch demon was killed the people who saw it - even if it was 500 soldiers 500 mages and 1 million peasants, and they were all watching it on a magical tv. what they saw AND WHY THE PERSON DIED would be different.

some one say that they died because of the surge of energy, the sheer amount of wounds he had suffered, or any other number of different things.

[Serogon]

Shady314 wrote...

Serogon wrote...
I'm getting tired of having to explain everything to you. I'm not talking about it being rumored about back then and then thought of now. I'm talking about it being talked about then, confirmed, and known now.

And I am getting very tired of waiting for a realistic explanation from you of how it could possibly be CONFIRMED? No one can confirm this besides the Grey Wardens and we know they sure as hell haven't. That means I am being generous saying it could have been rumoured at some point.

People in the final battle of one of the Blights see the energy going through the Warden IMMEDIATELY after they kill it. The Warden then dies. People have brains, and therefore see that killing the Archdemon kills you.

[Poubo]

Serogon wrote...

Shady314 wrote...

Serogon wrote...
I'm getting tired of having to explain everything to you. I'm not talking about it being rumored about back then and then thought of now. I'm talking about it being talked about then, confirmed, and known now.

And I am getting very tired of waiting for a realistic explanation from you of how it could possibly be CONFIRMED? No one can confirm this besides the Grey Wardens and we know they sure as hell haven't. That means I am being generous saying it could have been rumoured at some point.

People in the final battle of one of the Blights see the energy going through the Warden IMMEDIATELY after they kill it. The Warden then dies. People have brains, and therefore see that killing the Archdemon kills you.

how do they know it wasnt just a random thing? none of them were in a previous blight? 

[Shady314]

Serogon wrote...
People in the final battle of one of the Blights see the energy going through the Warden IMMEDIATELY after they kill it. The Warden then dies. People have brains, and therefore see that killing the Archdemon kills you.

Your utterly wrong that people's automatic assumption should be that the killing blow itself killed you and not the magical energy. 

But fine you know what. I'll grant you that for the sake of argument. Then ask what that has to do with telling everyone the secret that makes Grey Wardens necessary to stopping the Blight. Which is the topic you know. <_<

All you've argued is that people should know killing the Archdemon is fatal. That's like knowing joining the Grey Wardens can kill you. It's only half the story.

[Serogon]

Poubo wrote...

Serogon wrote...

Shady314 wrote...

Serogon wrote...
I'm getting tired of having to explain everything to you. I'm not talking about it being rumored about back then and then thought of now. I'm talking about it being talked about then, confirmed, and known now.

And I am getting very tired of waiting for a realistic explanation from you of how it could possibly be CONFIRMED? No one can confirm this besides the Grey Wardens and we know they sure as hell haven't. That means I am being generous saying it could have been rumoured at some point.

People in the final battle of one of the Blights see the energy going through the Warden IMMEDIATELY after they kill it. The Warden then dies. People have brains, and therefore see that killing the Archdemon kills you.

how do they know it wasnt just a random thing? none of them were in a previous blight? 

It's possible, but it seems unlikely that they would see someone finish off the Archdemon then immediately be obliterated and not assume that's the cause. If you saw someone stick a fork into an electrical socket then be electrocuted, you wouldn't assume it was a random occurence. And in reponse to your previous post, I'm aware that Blights aren't a regular occurence.

[Shady314]

Serogon wrote...
It's possible, but it seems unlikely that they would see someone finish off the Archdemon then immediately be obliterated and not assume that's the cause. If you saw someone stick a fork into an electrical socket then be electrocuted, you wouldn't assume it was a random occurence. And in reponse to your previous post, I'm aware that Blights aren't a regular occurence.

Going by the ending cinematic. It is NOT immediate. Don't know why you keep saying that.

[Serogon]

Shady314 wrote...

Serogon wrote...
It's possible, but it seems unlikely that they would see someone finish off the Archdemon then immediately be obliterated and not assume that's the cause. If you saw someone stick a fork into an electrical socket then be electrocuted, you wouldn't assume it was a random occurence. And in reponse to your previous post, I'm aware that Blights aren't a regular occurence.

Going by the ending cinematic. It is NOT immediate. Don't know why you keep saying that.

Did you watch the same ending that I did? Warden runs, grabs sword, slices through dragon's mouth, then plunges sword through head. Immediately after the sword goes in, energy goes through. A second later, pillar of energy. Then explosion.

[Poubo]

theres no reasoning this out...i feel like im just bashing my head against the desk

[Serogon]

To hell with it. I'm clearly not going to be able to convince you that people would realize that killing something then exploding means that the killing was the cause, so I'm done.

[Shady314]

Serogon wrote...

Shady314 wrote...

Serogon wrote...
It's possible, but it seems unlikely that they would see someone finish off the Archdemon then immediately be obliterated and not assume that's the cause. If you saw someone stick a fork into an electrical socket then be electrocuted, you wouldn't assume it was a random occurence. And in reponse to your previous post, I'm aware that Blights aren't a regular occurence.

Going by the ending cinematic. It is NOT immediate. Don't know why you keep saying that.

Did you watch the same ending that I did? Warden runs, grabs sword, slices through dragon's mouth, then plunges sword through head. Immediately after the sword goes in, energy goes through. A second later, pillar of energy. Then explosion.

I guess not. I saw something like this.  What did you see?

EDIT: LOL! I counted. 30 seconds! From stabbing to explosion.

Modifié par Shady314, 22 novembre 2009 - 11:07 .

[Shady314]

Serogon wrote...

To hell with it. I'm clearly not going to be able to convince you that people would realize that killing something then exploding means that the killing was the cause, so I'm done.

YOU don't explode. It is not immediate. My video link proves that. Glad you've realized the futility of your flat out untrue statements.

[Serogon]

Shady314 wrote...

Serogon wrote...

Shady314 wrote...

Serogon wrote...
It's possible, but it seems unlikely that they would see someone finish off the Archdemon then immediately be obliterated and not assume that's the cause. If you saw someone stick a fork into an electrical socket then be electrocuted, you wouldn't assume it was a random occurence. And in reponse to your previous post, I'm aware that Blights aren't a regular occurence.

Going by the ending cinematic. It is NOT immediate. Don't know why you keep saying that.

Did you watch the same ending that I did? Warden runs, grabs sword, slices through dragon's mouth, then plunges sword through head. Immediately after the sword goes in, energy goes through. A second later, pillar of energy. Then explosion.

I guess not. I saw something like this.  What did you see?

What...? That's exactly what I said. He stabs the sword through its head, then the energy comes.


EDIT: What the hell? Wow. I was remembering the timing of the explosion incorrectly. My statements are completely false. The explosion DOES come from you, or at the very least where you're standing. What are you talking about?

Modifié par Serogon, 22 novembre 2009 - 11:08 .

[Shady314]

Serogon wrote...
What...? That's exactly what I said. He stabs the sword through its head, then the energy comes.

But does NOT kill you OR explode until 30 seconds later!

EDIT: Yes they are completely false. Does the word IMMEDIATELY sound familiar? (Eye roll) If not re-read your asinine posts. The explosion comes from in between you and the archdemon. Anyone who saw would more than likely attribute it to the Arch not the Warden.

Modifié par Shady314, 22 novembre 2009 - 11:11 .

[Dark83]

I'm pretty sure that anything about dying is bad for morale and recruitment.

"Join the army and die a glorious death!" "Can't we just have a glorious victory?"

The Wardens are already regarded as necessary during a Blight. What would be the point of "They must strike the killing blow!" when there should be a small army of Wardens anyways?



Trying to justify Loghain's treason? But he didn't think it was a Blight anyways.

[Serogon]

Shady314 wrote...

Serogon wrote...
What...? That's exactly what I said. He stabs the sword through its head, then the energy comes.

But does NOT kill you OR explode until 30 seconds later!

What does that even have to do with anything?!? The explosion clearly comes from the energy pillar, which comes out of you after you kill the damn thing!

Maybe you should read the post, considering how "immediately" had nothing to do with the explosion, it was reffering to the energy, which WAS immediate.

Modifié par Serogon, 22 novembre 2009 - 11:12 .

[rumination888]

Serogon wrote...

To hell with it. I'm clearly not going to be able to convince you that people would realize that killing something then exploding means that the killing was the cause, so I'm done.

I saw your strawman a couple posts back, and had no reason to indulge you, but this... wow.

Wasn't the point of this topic you trying to convince us that Loghain wouldn't do what he did if he knew Grey Wardens were the only ones capable of killing an Archdemon?
And didn't Shady314 already shut down your logic by saying no one has even seen an Archdemon at Ostagar?
This was back on page 1, 3rd reply.

[Serogon]

rumination888 wrote...

Serogon wrote...

To hell with it. I'm clearly not going to be able to convince you that people would realize that killing something then exploding means that the killing was the cause, so I'm done.

I saw your strawman a couple posts back, and had no reason to indulge you, but this... wow.

Wasn't the point of this topic you trying to convince us that Loghain wouldn't do what he did if he knew Grey Wardens were the only ones capable of killing an Archdemon?
And didn't Shady314 already shut down your logic by saying no one has even seen an Archdemon at Ostagar?
This was back on page 1, 3rd reply.

Yes, that was the point of the topic. Unfortunately, it turned into something else.

[Shady314]

Serogon wrote...
What does that even have to do with anything?!? The explosion clearly comes from the energy pillar, which comes out of you after you kill the damn thing!

Maybe you should read the post, considering how "immediately" had nothing to do with the explosion, it was reffering to the energy, which WAS immediate.

??? It comes out of the demon. Now you're just being hilarious. Anyone can click the link. Watch it and see the energy comes out of the Archdemon. NOT you. You are engulfed by it. Big difference.

Modifié par Shady314, 22 novembre 2009 - 11:15 .

[Kurupt87]

i've got to agree completely with shady and the others arguing against seragon, their arguments are more logical and consider more things.

and why do you assume that normal people will be nearby the dragon? people KNOW that its the grey wardens job to kill it, and that will make them stay away, purely from self preservation. if you're a normal plod soldier/mage, then you're gonna stay the hell away from the 20 tonne, fire breathing, 20 metre long flying lizard of death, and leave it to the professionals, and be damn glad to.

plus, how accurate is a mans memory in battle? can u look back on the fights you've been in a remember everything thats happened? multiply that by it being a battle against monsters, magical balls of fire flying around, and of course the dragon...if that doesnt induce bowel loosening terror for your average man then i dno wot will. at the end you'd just be, "**** me im alive". also, ptsd anyone?

and for any normal guy that did see the end, that does remember it, he'd just be like "he hit it, killed it, and then it blew up!" kinda thing

[Lucy Glitter]

Drinking darkspawn blood would be incredibly controversial, plus the fact that there is no surefire chance of surviving... well, that would put a very negative light on the order.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Honestly, the whole "it needs to be secret !" is ridiculous and felt more /facepalm than anything.

Joining the Grey Warden is already devoting your entire life fighting Darkspawn. People ready to spend their remaining years fighting some tainted monsters are unlikely to be fettered by risks of death.

*Invokes right of conscription on Akka le Vil.*

That's right, you just got inducted into the Grey Wardens! Here's your complimentary chalice of boiling darkspawn blood. Drink up! 

What? You don't want to drink? Oh, too bad. *Runs Akka through.*

And if he's fettered by this, do you really want him in your ranks ? Not likely.

Ser Jory.

More seriously, the secrecy thing makes a lot of sense. Saying that you have to become like the enemy to fight them isn't going to go over well with just about anyone. Keeping it secret though... Well, they say "it's better to ask forgiveness than permission, you're more likely to get it."