152 réponses à ce sujet

[dimstog]

I know there must be thousands of threads like this and while I do not want to whine, I know of no other way to send feedback to the developers - apart from not buying the DLC.

I tried, I really tried to play DA2. I actually had it preordered the first day pre-order was available. But the only reason I did that was because I thought it would be in sync with the first game. Yes, the graphics are awesome, yes, the animations are great, yes, the characters seem interesting, yes, the cinematics and production value is extremely high.

But, it's not the same genre. I am sorry for saying this, but this is not anything like the fantasy RPG DA:O was. This borders on an FPS with a mediocre story, 0 replayability, limited world building and character development that is very close to the FPS mentality: "get a new gun - develop your character - plod through enemies" sort. I won't even mention the ridiculous inventory, or the very much shorter playtime - which is shameful for a Bioware game tbh.

Making combat remotely interesting apart from SFX bling bling ? Oh, that's easy, just have everyone magicaly appear around the player's group - all the time!. Honestly, I really hope your developers are spending all the time with Star Wars, cause if that's the best the can come up with...

It doesnt mean it's bad for the audience that likes this sort of thing, but it's bad for the audience that liked the genre DA:O was.

Mass Effect 1 and 2 were essentialy the same game. I very much liked them both, with all their shortcomings, whatever they were. DA:O and DA2 are not the same game.

I cant even say if DA2 is like the ME series, because I actually liked the ME series and will preorder the 3rd installement. DA3 ? Definately not if it's anything like DA2.

[whykikyouwhy]

dimstog wrote...

I know there must be thousands of threads like this and while I do not want to whine, I know of no other way to send feedback to the developers - apart from not buying the DLC.

I believe that the devs do check this thread for constructive criticism.

[xkg]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

dimstog wrote...

I know there must be thousands of threads like this and while I do not want to whine, I know of no other way to send feedback to the developers - apart from not buying the DLC.

I believe that the devs do check this thread for constructive criticism.

Haven't seen you posting anything like that in this "DA2 praising" thread:

http://social.biowar...-8432184-1.html

How interesting ... very, very.

Modifié par xkg, 05 octobre 2011 - 10:39 .

[Cyne]

It's not so bad. if you give it a chance and let go of any lingering nostalgia regarding DA1, it can be pretty fun. The combat is much improved.

[whykikyouwhy]

xkg wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

dimstog wrote...

I know there must be thousands of threads like this and while I do not want to whine, I know of no other way to send feedback to the developers - apart from not buying the DLC.

I believe that the devs do check this thread for constructive criticism.

Haven't seen you posting anything like that in this "DA2 praising" thread:

http://social.biowar...-8432184-1.html

How interesting ... very, very.

Are you commenting on why I haven't directed folks to a singular "praise" thread? Or is your comment addressed to the OP?

If the former, I'm not aware of a specific "DA2 love" thread that the devs patrol. The constructive criticism thread, from what I have skimmed and perused, is more about criticism (politely phrased, of course) versus flatout praise.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The combat is garbage of the highest caliber.

I can think of a few things that DA2 did rO.K., but combat is definately not one of them.

[billy the squid]

Cyne wrote...

It's not so bad. if you give it a chance and let go of any lingering nostalgia regarding DA1, it can be pretty fun. The combat is much improved.

No, not really, it is spectacularly mediocre in most areas and shockingly bad in some others. Whilst I don't think nostalga comes into a game which is only just 2 years old.

[Yrkoon]

Cyne wrote...

It's not so bad. if you give it a chance and let go of any lingering nostalgia regarding DA1, it can be pretty fun. The combat is much improved.

I approached my second playthrough of DA2 with this mindset.  I flat out convinced myself to let go of my DA:O-conceived notions and just let DA2 drive me where it wants to go.

That *DID* help, believe it or not., as I started noticing a few really good things about the game.    But at the same time, it was by doing that, that I  also began noticing how god-awful  and one-dimensional the combat was.  This is a bias, completely subjective  opinion from me.   I admit it.    But I simply do not like the  exagerated super-duper fast Combat in DA2.   The circus-like animations  turned me off completely, and I lament the loss of the finishing moves  (decaptications; sticking your sword through  your opponent's stomach than pulling it out as they collapse to the ground, etc)    I also found myself missing the ability to scout ahead and   plan ambushes; and  lay traps; and  zoom out the camera so that I could toss a fireball out  at the horizion to fry a pack of mobs before they even notice my party.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 05 octobre 2011 - 11:43 .

[ScotGaymer]

The best thing about DA2 is the optimised engine.

DAO has this problem when you have a number of mods installed where it has a delay during combat between an enemy hitting you and the subsequent hit points being deducted.
What it results in is a character being at full health one second and literally a moment later being dead before you can react and use a potion or cast heal. It also works the other way.

There is a delay in hp being deducted from foes when you hit them too.

It isnt noticable in the vanilla game; but when you start modding to any significant degree the delay becomes immediately noticable to the point where it renders the game unplayable.

Before you say it must be my computer - it isnt. My comp runs games that have higher spec requirements better than DAO. DA2 runs 20 times better than DAO.
It's an engine optimisation problem.

Every time I encounter bugs and problems with DA2; I remind myself of that. As annoying as it is, at least I can actually play the game with mods without having to worry about sudden death for my character and companions.

[seraphymon]

I hate to say it bu it must be your comp, or any specific mods. At least its isnt a universal problem i would say. As i have a good share of mods for DAo and i dont enounter that problem at all, it still runs as smooth with or without the mods. DA2 acts the same way cept for the bug or whatever that aloows mobs to survive forever with 1 hp and never dying till like 6 hits or so later.

[Morroian]

dimstog wrote...

But, it's not the same genre. I am sorry for saying this, but this is not anything like the fantasy RPG DA:O was. This borders on an FPS with a mediocre story, 0 replayability, limited world building and character development that is very close to the FPS mentality: "get a new gun - develop your character - plod through enemies" sort.

This sort of comment tells me that you really didn't try or were simply unable to be immersed, there is plenty of role playing through dialogue choices and choices Hawke makes regarding companions and other NPCs.

dimstog wrote...

Making combat remotely interesting apart from SFX bling bling ? Oh, that's easy, just have everyone magicaly appear around the player's group - all the time!. Honestly, I really hope your developers are spending all the time with Star Wars, cause if that's the best the can come up with...

If you'd actually done your research you would know they have acknowledged this and fixed the encounter design to a large extent in Legacy.

dimstog wrote...

Mass Effect 1 and 2 were essentialy the same game. I very much liked them both, with all their shortcomings, whatever they were. DA:O and DA2 are not the same game. 

Wrong, ME2 is to ME1 as DA2 is to DAO, in fact I'd argue that ME2 is a greater departure because it has almost no role playing elements unlike DA2. People give it a pass because they don't really regard it as an rpg. If you give ME2 a pass but not DA2 then you're not applying the same standard to them. 

Modifié par Morroian, 05 octobre 2011 - 11:59 .

[billy the squid]

Morroian wrote...

dimstog wrote...

Mass Effect 1 and 2 were essentialy the same game. I very much liked them both, with all their shortcomings, whatever they were. DA:O and DA2 are not the same game. 

Wrong, ME2 is to ME1 as DA2 is to DAO, in fact I'd argue that ME2 is a greater departure because it has almost no role playing elements unlike DA2. People give it a pass because they don't really regard it as an rpg. If you give ME2 a pass but not DA2 then you're not applying the same standard to them. 

I don't think this is some critical analysis assignment where one has to assign exact criteria or create a control group. ME2, lost a lot of the RPG elements which ME1 had, but needed to work on, not be removed entirely. But, what remained was far better implemented and executed as well as improving the combat. DA2 suffers due to some very dubious decisions and bad execution, nay terrible in some cases.

The perception was that ME1 and 2 remained at their core similar despite the differences, DAO and DA2 the shift was more jarring in addition to things like conversation wheels and rivalry system which seemed to be lifted from Mass Effect and a myriad of other issues which have been brought up.

Modifié par billy the squid, 05 octobre 2011 - 12:14 .

[Morroian]

billy the squid wrote...

I don't think this is some critical analysis assignment where one has to assign exact criteria or create a control group. ME2, lost a lot of the RPG elements which ME1 had, but needed to work on, not be removed entirely. But, what remained was far better implemented and executed as well as improving the combat..

I don't think they did improve the combat, IMHO ME2s combat was boringly one dimensional.

[Captain Sassy Pants]

Morroian wrote...

dimstog wrote...

But, it's not the same genre. I am sorry for saying this, but this is not anything like the fantasy RPG DA:O was. This borders on an FPS with a mediocre story, 0 replayability, limited world building and character development that is very close to the FPS mentality: "get a new gun - develop your character - plod through enemies" sort.

This sort of comment tells me that you really didn't try or were simply unable to be immersed, there is plenty of role playing through dialogue choices and choices Hawke makes regarding companions and other NPCs.

dimstog wrote...

Making combat remotely interesting apart from SFX bling bling ? Oh, that's easy, just have everyone magicaly appear around the player's group - all the time!. Honestly, I really hope your developers are spending all the time with Star Wars, cause if that's the best the can come up with...

If you'd actually done your research you would know they have acknowledged this and fixed the encounter design to a large extent in Legacy.

dimstog wrote...

Mass Effect 1 and 2 were essentialy the same game. I very much liked them both, with all their shortcomings, whatever they were. DA:O and DA2 are not the same game. 

Wrong, ME2 is to ME1 as DA2 is to DAO, in fact I'd argue that ME2 is a greater departure because it has almost no role playing elements unlike DA2. People give it a pass because they don't really regard it as an rpg. If you give ME2 a pass but not DA2 then you're not applying the same standard to them. 

"Fixing" a problem in a DLC that you have to pay for, that is only applied to that DLC, is not a "fix" at all as the problem still exists in the same game.

"We can't just go back and fix it in the main game". Yes you can, it's called a patch. I know, I know, people don't pay for those though.

Some customer service. Nothing has been addressed, as the problems still stand in the core game. Anything "fixed" in DLC is inconsequential. 

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Captain Sassy Pants wrote...

"Fixing" a problem in a DLC that you have to pay for, that is only applied to that DLC, is not a "fix" at all as the problem still exists in the same game.

"We can't just go back and fix it in the main game". Yes you can, it's called a patch. I know, I know, people don't pay for those though.

Some customer service. Nothing has been addressed, as the problems still stand in the core game. Anything "fixed" in DLC is inconsequential. 

To be fair, a lot of areas such as the crummy corridor level design, re-used maps, combat animations, areas of choice/consequence, etc can't really be fixed in a patch. At best, you can rebalance/tweak some of the combat mechanics and take a swig at fixing some of the encounter design (does The Long Road really need waves of combat?) and some really stupid dialog (cutting the option where you warn Cullen of Anders).

In essence, you can band-aid some of the problems (a patch), but you can't drastically overhaul the core game.

It's definitely a person's right to refuse buying a DLC because you don't want to pay money for a "fix" for one aspect among many that you find fault with (encounter design) that happens in a closed-off adventure lasting only a few hours. But you can't expect a wholly different core game through patching. Especially in today's industry. That's just unreasonable.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 05 octobre 2011 - 01:36 .

[billy the squid]

Morroian wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

I don't think this is some critical analysis assignment where one has to assign exact criteria or create a control group. ME2, lost a lot of the RPG elements which ME1 had, but needed to work on, not be removed entirely. But, what remained was far better implemented and executed as well as improving the combat..

I don't think they did improve the combat, IMHO ME2s combat was boringly one dimensional.

They improved the movement, ME1 was a bit clumsy at times, But the encounters in ME2 became boring as they tended to play out the same, ie: chip away at different bars whilst moving around conveniently placed horizontal blocks. Once you get the Widow Maker sniper rifle, with Tugsten rounds and anti shield rounds on the Geth assault rifle, the game becomes a bit of a walk in the Park, even on the hardest setting.

[TEWR]

You know, I had a thought arise in my Dwarven mind yesterday. I was pondering this: Were an Ultimate Edition or what-have-you to come out in a year or so with all sorts of DLC, would it also include the DAII we should've gotten? With a much better story and whatnot?

Personally, I doubt it because they would have then released two completely different games.

[billy the squid]

I don't think they would have done so either, its a finance issue. I don't imagine EA would give the green light to spend funds on something which has recieved such a bashing, more likely to simply cut their losses and push out the DLC whilst working on DA3, what direction DA3 will take is another matter entirely.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

It's not really an "EA" thing. I doubt companies short of Valve or maybe CDPR would go that extra mile.

[billy the squid]

mrcrusty wrote...

It's not really an "EA" thing. I doubt companies short of Valve or maybe CDPR would go that extra mile.

As EA is the parent company of Bioware now, it would have the decision on whether to finance such a product, but yes it's not an "EA thing" it's a cost benefit analysis, from a purely fiscal stand point there is little point, unless they want to try and gain some good will, but there is no guarantee that it would work.

CDPR have a good reputation at the moment for going far beyond what is usual when providing patches and content, most other publishers don't.

[jds1bio]

billy the squid wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

It's not really an "EA" thing. I doubt companies short of Valve or maybe CDPR would go that extra mile.

As EA is the parent company of Bioware now, it would have the decision on whether to finance such a product, but yes it's not an "EA thing" it's a cost benefit analysis, from a purely fiscal stand point there is little point, unless they want to try and gain some good will, but there is no guarantee that it would work.

CDPR have a good reputation at the moment for going far beyond what is usual when providing patches and content, most other publishers don't.

But notice that the two companies you mention, Valve and CDPR, now fund themselves more flexibly and robustly with their own game distribution sites.  EA is starting to do this with Origin, so perhaps in the future they may be able to throw more freebies our way.

On my birthday EA sent me a 25% order discount on Origin.  They didn't have to do this, but at least it's a start.

[Joy Divison]

Morroian wrote...

This sort of comment tells me that you really didn't try or were simply unable to be immersed, there is plenty of role playing through dialogue choices and choices Hawke makes regarding companions and other NPCs.

Why is it the fault of the OP if he didn't "try" to be immersed?

If you'd actually done your research you would know they have acknowledged this and fixed the encounter design to a large extent in Legacy.

Why does the OP have to do research on a DLC he doesn't own, didn't play, and doesn;t want to comment on it?

Wrong. ME2 is to ME1 as DA2 is to DAO...

How is an opinion of a game wrong?  Why can't he like ME2 and be disappointed in DA2?

Modifié par Joy Divison, 05 octobre 2011 - 02:18 .

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The combat is garbage of the highest caliber.

I can think of a few things that DA2 did rO.K., but combat is definately not one of them.

Yeah, I think giving this game a chance actually lowered my I.Q. a few points. I know, hard to believe isn't it?

[alex90c]

Can someone tell me what RPG elements ME1 actually had?

People say ME2 "stripped the RPGness" out of the Mass Effect series by turning it more in to a shooter, but whenever I try to think of the RPG elements lost my mind goes blank.