250 réponses à ce sujet

[Rogue Unit]

Waiting to see how pissed everyone will be when to find out your forced to be Kaidan and Ashley BFF in ME3.

[AtreiyaN7]

Oh, dear God, Shepard is friendly toward characters that I did not personally hand-pick as friends. THIS IS IS A NIGHTMAAAAARE! I CANNOT ACCEPT MY CHARACTER HAVING FRIENDS THAT I DID NOT EXPLICITLY FRIEND FIRST ON FACEBOOK OR THAT WERE FORCED ON ME BY BIOWARE!!!!! *sarcasm*

[Jaron Oberyn]

This has to happen. There is only so much that we can control with Shepard, in the end he's Bioware's poster boy for the Mass Effect franchise. They've shown that in the retail release of ME2 and the story DLC's that followed after that. Shepard is a predefined character now. As pointed out, look at Archangel. He's buddy buddy with Shepard in ME2. Or Tali. I personally hated her, but she's buddy buddy too despite the fact that I was rude to her in the first game.

These are just small examples. Look at the portions of the game where shepard is taken out of our control. You hit one dialogue choice and you win the conversation, sometimes you don't hit a dialogue choice at all, and the game takes over. This is all so that Bioware can establish Shepard as the iconic Mass Effect character. We've seen it in LoTSB with the 99% auto dialogue there, and Arrivals 99.9% auto dialogue. Mass Effect 3's demo even displayed this, with Shepard's dialogue being automatic except for about 2 examples for the kinect feature.

Even with the krogan princess. She tells shepard "you don't know me" and he says "but I'd like to". What happens to players who don't like the krogans, or don't want the genophage to end? Doesn't matter. Shepard is predefined. It happened in ME2, and it's definitely going to happen in ME3. Between people complaining about too much dialogue, and Bioware trying to make this into a pure shooter, this was bound to happen. I personally think it's sloppy work to change the dynamics of the initial game so drastically by limiting the amount of control the player has over the character, but in the end it's Bioware's call, and that's what they went for.


-Polite

[Collider]

Garrus got a major ego boost in ME2 that is easy to dislike. Especially considering that the way he acted in ME1.

[Gabey5]

agreed, my main Shepard dislikes aliens period.

He was not friends with Garrus

or liara

 I killed wrex
and was all business with alien nationals

Modifié par Gabey5, 07 octobre 2011 - 07:01 .

[Dave of Canada]

I'm hoping I can tell Liara my attitude and jokes during her hunt of the Shadow Broker was because of the Lazarus Project and I still absolutely dislike and distrust her. Hopefully I can question what's her excuse for reviving the man who insulted her every chance he got.

[Bekkael]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm hoping I can tell Liara my attitude and jokes during her hunt of the Shadow Broker was because of the Lazarus Project and I still absolutely dislike and distrust her. Hopefully I can question what's her excuse for reviving the man who insulted her every chance he got.

Not happening. The game pushes her on you from ME and continues to say in ME2: "Here's Liara, she's an awesome asari who you should totally love and definitely romance. Youknowyouwantto!"

That's a valid option for some Shepards to love and adore her, but what about people that play as a xenophobe and don't like any aliens? Since you are able to establish such a character in the first game, it was disappointing to have that invalidated in ME2.

[staindgrey]

Gabey5 wrote...

agreed, my main Shepard dislikes aliens period.

He was not friends with Garrus

or liara

 I killed wrex
and was all business with alien nationals

Yeah, this is where the automatic friends thing gets annoying.

I don't mind Shepard being friendly, but on my 100% Renegade run, my Shepard wanted Garrus to take a hike, made fun of Quarians, disrespected everything else, killed the Council... And then all the alien crewmates still loved her like they were BFFs. It kind of kills the mood of being a racist renegade.

[Undertone]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm hoping I can tell Liara my attitude and jokes during her hunt of the Shadow Broker was because of the Lazarus Project and I still absolutely dislike and distrust her. Hopefully I can question what's her excuse for reviving the man who insulted her every chance he got.

I wish I can do the same for Tali. She's so annoying...

[Ariadnee]

Aw poor Garrus - you're the only friend he has left in this screwed up galaxy

[Jenova65]

 Not everyone like Garrus......... shocking I know........... Not everyone like Liara....... even more shocking...

The same goes for all of them, the thing that people forget when they are shouting how awesome Garrus and Liara are, is this simple fact ~ IRL you aren't going to like everyone, same goes for game characters.

I don't like that Garrus is automatically my best friend in 2, I spent the whole of the first game telling him off for his renegade ways (like risking the life of a hostage to get a good shot... colour me unimpressed there) 

Same goes for Liara, I don't like her being pushed down my throat in Genesis as the LI I *should really want* oddly enough as a heterosexual woman... I don't fancy things with boobs, I fancy things with penises, it's not rocket science.. and it is rude to assume I am going love her.... 

It's also pertinent that VS fans (yes we do exist and yes we don't find Liara as compelling romantically as Liara romancers do) got stiffed on Horizon too... So.. not only am I suddenly BFF with someone I don't like, but the person I did like best is canonically being pushed on me as a douche after being the person who listened most before.. If you can't see that it is taking the ''We give you choices'', and cr*pping all over it... well.... clearly it is a case if 'I'm alright Jack', basically they aren't screwing with what you want and you don't want the boat rocked. Fact.

I agree with Collider entirely....

And FWIW.......... I befriend everyone, everytime. I am not mean to any of my crew and I do all loyalties and remain on good terms with all... but just don't state that you have a choice in a game when, with certain characters you don't.... 

[Tootles FTW]

Totally get what you're saying, but I honestly can't recall an instance where Garrus was overly friendly...also, there's the fact that he only has 3 conversations in the entire game and isn't inserted into the mission briefings like Jacob or Miranda.  He references "old times", but you can interpret that as chagrin or affectionate nostalgia.  Then again, I R BIASED.  *troll face* 

I felt more an infringement on my personal space by the females in the game, honestly.  Shiala and Liara both get up in my personal space without my prompting.  That didn't bother me so much as the unavoidable kiss you share with Liara if you romanced her, as by the time you get to Illium it is possible that you've already initiated a romance with an ME2 squaddie...who might be right there in the room with you when you're smooching on Liara.  Awkwaaaard.

[Ieldra]

Actually, with Garrus it's not so bad, apart from the reunion scene in his recruitment mission. I rather resent the fact that he's *assumed* to be the canon buddy by everyone, as if it was some kind of mental disorder to dislike him. And anway, if it gets too bad in ME3 I can always go back and kill him in the SM.

And there's also Wrex. In his case, I don't mind since while I dislike the krogan, Wrex is unusually clear-sighted about his own species and I like him in spite of him being a krogan.

Liara being pushed as the canon romance is much more annoying, since I don't have the option to kill her if things get too bad and because of the way she was pushed into players' faces in Genesis. Not that I actually want to kill her, since I like her as of ME2. Just not as a romance. So please, Bioware, no assumptions and no preferential treatment for Liara.

All in all, if I don't want a character to be a friend, let me have some neutral (friendly but detached) conversation options. I don't want to be a jerk to people to get them to back off.

[Jenova65]

Tootles FTW wrote...

Totally get what you're saying, but I honestly can't recall an instance where Garrus was overly friendly...also, there's the fact that he only has 3 conversations in the entire game and isn't inserted into the mission briefings like Jacob or Miranda.  He references "old times", but you can interpret that as chagrin or affectionate nostalgia.  Then again, I R BIASED.  *troll face* 

I felt more an infringement on my personal space by the females in the game, honestly.  Shiala and Liara both get up in my personal space without my prompting.  That didn't bother me so much as the unavoidable kiss you share with Liara if you romanced her, as by the time you get to Illium it is possible that you've already initiated a romance with an ME2 squaddie...who might be right there in the room with you when you're smooching on Liara.  Awkwaaaard.

With Garrus it is more the way people on the BSN assume EVERYONE loves him and I don't *love* him, he's..... OK.... I guess, but he reminds me of a spoilt toddler with his behaviour and that does annoy me.. It is also the marketing of Garrus by BioWare, iyswim? I'm bored of him...

And I agree about the females, it kind of reminds you that in many ways the games are still being marketed to heterosexual men... and before anyone says anything, YES I do understand that they are the biggest section of the audience, but in business you have to cater for your whole audience or your audience will shrink and then you lose a lot of sales....

[Yezdigerd]

Find the topic perplexing, You only occasionally pick your friends in real life, most often they are foisted on you. and have you never known someone in RL who apparently feels closer to you then you do to them? Someone who routinely bores you giving you their laterst news about his house kids while you say "ah".

[Jenova65]

laecraft wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Waiting to see how pissed everyone will be when to find out your forced to be Kaidan and Ashley BFF in ME3.

Ohhhh, I would be so very, very pissed. Imagine Shepard and VS hugging when Shepard gets to the Normandy...I think I'd stop playing right then. Oh I can totally see it now...

VS: Shepard! Good to have you back.

Shepard: VS! How have you been?

VS: My most trusted Commander! Good to see that you didn't succumb to Cerberus influence and didn't start blowing up alien planets!

Shepard: My most loyal companion! Done anything useful while I saved human colonies and hindered the Reapers for the second time?

VS: Knew you'd never become a goddamn terrorist!

Shepard: Knew you'd never turn your back on humanity!

VS: I can totally follow your orders now. You always knew what to do best.

Shepard: I can totally trust you in this war. You've proved yourself to me when the whole galaxy doubted me.

VS: I know where your loyalties lie. You'll never fail the galaxy in the crucial hour.

Shepard: I know where your loyalties lie. You'll never fail me in the crucial hour.

VS: Best buddies?

Shepard: Best buddies!

(VS and Shepard hug)

Me: *gag*

Reapers: *make Reaper noises behind the window*

Really would like to have a say in how my Shepard treats Liara and VS. Since these people are being pushed into prominent roles. Garrus can die in ME2 - just like with Wrex, him simply being alive already indicates some degree of care for the character. But since neither VS nor Liara can die, it has to be different.

Actually, only Liara has plot armour that goes through two games... Everyone else.......... EVERYONE else is killable. You in fact, have to kill Kaidan or Ashley that's why the one you saved is known as Virmire *survivor* so they don't have plot armour at all... And their roles are interchangeable which is annoying because they are different characters.
Given that Garrus can die, BioWare are making a lot of assumptions with the demo because Garrus is most likely dead in a few games.... He's not in mine, as I say I don't allow any of them to die, I am purely speaking from a PoV that the characters are made to not appeal to everyone, BioWare know that, they state that they know you aren't going to like every one, so they should accept that even in games where Garrus is alive it might not because the player thinks Garrus is their *bro* it might be because some of us would save our worst enemy in a life or death situation... 

[sevach]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Waiting to see how pissed everyone will be when to find out your forced to be Kaidan and Ashley BFF in ME3.

Very pissed!!!

I'm the same boat as other renegades, i'm not fond of having characters i don't like forced down my throat.
But hey, at least we got the chance to kill Tali.

Modifié par sevach, 07 octobre 2011 - 02:58 .

[swordmalice]

Jenova65 wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...

Totally get what you're saying, but I honestly can't recall an instance where Garrus was overly friendly...also, there's the fact that he only has 3 conversations in the entire game and isn't inserted into the mission briefings like Jacob or Miranda.  He references "old times", but you can interpret that as chagrin or affectionate nostalgia.  Then again, I R BIASED.  *troll face* 

I felt more an infringement on my personal space by the females in the game, honestly.  Shiala and Liara both get up in my personal space without my prompting.  That didn't bother me so much as the unavoidable kiss you share with Liara if you romanced her, as by the time you get to Illium it is possible that you've already initiated a romance with an ME2 squaddie...who might be right there in the room with you when you're smooching on Liara.  Awkwaaaard.

With Garrus it is more the way people on the BSN assume EVERYONE loves him and I don't *love* him, he's..... OK.... I guess, but he reminds me of a spoilt toddler with his behaviour and that does annoy me.. It is also the marketing of Garrus by BioWare, iyswim? I'm bored of him...

And I agree about the females, it kind of reminds you that in many ways the games are still being marketed to heterosexual men... and before anyone says anything, YES I do understand that they are the biggest section of the audience, but in business you have to cater for your whole audience or your audience will shrink and then you lose a lot of sales....

Good point here, but I need to make a small correction - in some businesses you have to cater to your whole audience. In the video game industry that is less of a rule and more of an option - trust me on this, I work in finance and acutally have a client who works for a developer. The money in games is where your market majority is, and that majority is heterosexual males with age ranges changing depending on whether the game is E or MA.


Back to topic - I think we really need to analyze what exactly do we mean by having "choices" in ME. We were given choices to mold Shepard, advance certain plot points and romances. Things get murky when you start metagaming and wish you had a choice for the minutae. To put those choices and have them affect the game would result in even longer development time for content that only SOME players will benefit from. Don't get me wrong, I wish it weren't like this either, but as a realist I've come to accept that there are just some situations in ME that are beyond my control regardless of what my "canon" is.

Modifié par swordmalice, 07 octobre 2011 - 04:37 .

[Asari_Party]

I'm rather amazed that some people still whine and complain about the Genesis comic, as if these three pictures made someone a Liara fan.

[wizardryforever]

While ME2 may not give you opportunities to insult Garrus/Tali/Liara, the easiest way to not be friends with them is to a) not talk to them (since you don't talk to people you hate unless you must), don't take them on missions (if you don't like them, why do you want them with you?) and most importantly, c) DON"T DO THEIR LOYALTY MISSION.

Seriously, if you do the above, you make no friendly remarks to them and they make none to you.  It's astoundingly simple.

[Zeleck]

Everything under the sun this community complains about.

I'm so disgusted.

[Jenova65]

swordmalice wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...

Totally get what you're saying, but I honestly can't recall an instance where Garrus was overly friendly...also, there's the fact that he only has 3 conversations in the entire game and isn't inserted into the mission briefings like Jacob or Miranda.  He references "old times", but you can interpret that as chagrin or affectionate nostalgia.  Then again, I R BIASED.  *troll face* 

I felt more an infringement on my personal space by the females in the game, honestly.  Shiala and Liara both get up in my personal space without my prompting.  That didn't bother me so much as the unavoidable kiss you share with Liara if you romanced her, as by the time you get to Illium it is possible that you've already initiated a romance with an ME2 squaddie...who might be right there in the room with you when you're smooching on Liara.  Awkwaaaard.

With Garrus it is more the way people on the BSN assume EVERYONE loves him and I don't *love* him, he's..... OK.... I guess, but he reminds me of a spoilt toddler with his behaviour and that does annoy me.. It is also the marketing of Garrus by BioWare, iyswim? I'm bored of him...

And I agree about the females, it kind of reminds you that in many ways the games are still being marketed to heterosexual men... and before anyone says anything, YES I do understand that they are the biggest section of the audience, but in business you have to cater for your whole audience or your audience will shrink and then you lose a lot of sales....

Good point here, but I need to make a small correction - in some businesses you have to cater to your whole audience. In the video game industry that is less of a rule and more of an option - trust me on this, I work in finance and acutally have a client who works for a developer. The money in games is where your market majority is, and that majority is heterosexual males with age ranges changing depending on whether the game is E or MA.


Back to topic - I think we really need to analyze what exactly do we mean by having "choices" in ME. We were given choices to mold Shepard, advance certain plot points and romances. Things get murky when you start metagaming and wish you had a choice for the minutae. To put those choices and have them affect the game would result in even longer development time for content that only SOME players will benefit from. Don't get me wrong, I wish it weren't like this either, but as a realist I've come to accept that there are just some situations in ME that are beyond my control regardless of what my "canon" is.

I realise that... however things are changing and fast.... there are more female gamers every day and for sure, BioWare might not lose even a penny on ME3... BUT today they are making their tomorrow and they will want to cater for women.... better to start now.

That works as a general point also, maybe the video games industry has worked this way for a long time but there is no such thing as a free lunch and one day they will sit down only to be handed the bill, iyswim? 

As for development time, tbh... I'd happily sacrifice them tracking stupid choices like Conrad Verner in favour of my Squad mate decisions being tracked and having actual meaning... 

[Iakus]

laecraft wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Waiting to see how pissed everyone will be when to find out your forced to be Kaidan and Ashley BFF in ME3.

Ohhhh, I would be so very, very pissed. Imagine Shepard and VS hugging when Shepard gets to the Normandy...I think I'd stop playing right then. Oh I can totally see it now...

VS: Shepard! Good to have you back.

Shepard: VS! How have you been?

VS: My most trusted Commander! Good to see that you didn't succumb to Cerberus influence and didn't start blowing up alien planets!

Shepard: My most loyal companion! Done anything useful while I saved human colonies and hindered the Reapers for the second time?

VS: Knew you'd never become a goddamn terrorist!

Shepard: Knew you'd never turn your back on humanity!

VS: I can totally follow your orders now. You always knew what to do best.

Shepard: I can totally trust you in this war. You've proved yourself to me when the whole galaxy doubted me.

VS: I know where your loyalties lie. You'll never fail the galaxy in the crucial hour.

Shepard: I know where your loyalties lie. You'll never fail me in the crucial hour.

VS: Best buddies?

Shepard: Best buddies!

(VS and Shepard hug)

Me: *gag*

Reapers: *make Reaper noises behind the window*

While I agree with the sentiment that it shouldn't be that easy to make up with them, it does in a way illustrate the problem on canonical relationships.

I for one was equally steamed at how of all the current and former companions of ME2, the VS is the one that I got railroaded into having a rift with.  The one person I departed on unfriendly terms with.  And it's totally unavoidable. The VS are my favorite characters in the series (Ash #1, Kaidan #2 and the choice on Virmire gives me a twinge to this very day).  In ME1, they were my Shep's best buddies, sidekicks, whatever.  Everything Garrus acts like in ME2.  Now Udina treats Shepard better.  It's the anti-canon buddy!

I for one am very curious to see how friendships, rivalries, or whatever get sorted out in ME3.  Will they just assume Shep's all buddy-buddy with everytone who's A) alive and "loyal" (whatever that means)?  Will Shepard have a chance to burn bridges for good?  WIll we ever see "Because It's a big, stupid jellyfish" lines again?

Modifié par iakus, 07 octobre 2011 - 06:47 .

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

IMO, Shepard deserved what he/she got on Horizon. Cerberus? Of all the groups to work for? Yeah, I felt like I could identify with the VS more than I could with Shepard. Especially with Shep acting like "Uh well Cerberus isn't all that bad."

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 08 octobre 2011 - 01:10 .