75 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

diamondedge wrote...

Would you perhaps care to enlighten me?

You focus on only specific ascpet and the ncall the whole thing "outdated". Outdated why? Because you do not care? That is not the definition of outdated. If you cannot explain whay its' outdated, then you fail. And you didn't.

Having stats is not outdated. Having text is not outdated. Having side-quests is not outdated.
You havn't exactly described anything that isn't alos present in more "modern" games.

[bussinrounds]

diamondedge wrote...

Personally, I don't care for your "traditional" RPG. I find the concept outdated, often tedious and not all of us who like RPG games have 100 hours for often pointless exploration of some random dungeon.
Or walls of text. Or dozens of stats. And the nerves to realize it's still pretty much RNG based.

Bioware is aware of that and they - like good businessmen - adapt to the situation.

Sorry, guys.

    And give us interactive movies/dating sims with cute characters to romance:wub:, instead of rpgs ?

Modifié par bussinrounds, 06 octobre 2011 - 09:10 .

[diamondedge]

I also said:

and not all of us who like RPG games have 100 hours for often pointless exploration of some random dungeon.

Also, I'd appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. I said "dozens" of stats and "walls of text". I'm not arguing complete lack of either, but bringing them to reasonable levels. Side quests I didn't even mention.

Back to my point hi, Baldur's Gate called.

A person with reasonable amount of spare time and healthy interests nowadays simply cannot afford to play games like this any more, as brilliant as they stand in their genre. The concept of classic RPG IS outdated in modern gaming who focuses on casual player (not bad player, but player with limited time to play) simply becasue the process is very time consuming and often unrewarding. Bioware understand this, hence why we have games like Mass Effect and DA2.

Gaming is no longer the lair of those who lock themselves in the basement and play their favourite game to the point of collapsing. RPG - more so than any other genre - needs to adapt to this.

@bussinrounds: Witcher 2 says hi.

Modifié par diamondedge, 06 octobre 2011 - 09:20 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

diamondedge wrote...

Or walls of text.

diamondedge wrote...

Or dozens of stats.

diamondedge wrote...

And the nerves to realize it's still pretty much RNG based.

diamondedge wrote...
Bioware is aware of that and they - like good businessmen - adapt to the situation.

http://www.joystiq.c...hin-first-week/

Fifa 12. A "casual" game if I ever saw one. Sports games (the career modes) are actually Sports-Themed Action RPGs in disguise.

The mechanics aren't outdated and neither is the concept. Traditional RPGs aren't blockbuster games and I accept that but people actively looking at lots of text and stats as a bad thing in the context of RPGs really puzzles me. Is basic reading and maths really that difficult and only for "nerds", or is it just the way it's portrayed/presented? I'm inclined to think the latter, but people actually believe the former...

As for the Neverwinter Nights news, it was originally an MMORPG to begin with, so meh.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 06 octobre 2011 - 09:50 .

[Haplose]

San Diego Thief wrote...
..if only I had a million dollars to do my own Baldur's Gate clone

Well, that'd be a bit of a waste, seeing how the works on module remaking the first Baldur's Gate campaign, along with TotSC expansion, for NWN2 is nearing completion and I guess should probably be finished still this year...
...and will be free.

[Cyberarmy]

diamondedge wrote...

I
Back to my point hi, Baldur's Gate called.

A person with reasonable amount of spare time and healthy interests nowadays simply cannot afford to play games like this any more, as brilliant as they stand in their genre. The concept of classic RPG IS outdated in modern gaming who focuses on casual player (not bad player, but player with limited time to play) simply becasue the process is very time consuming and often unrewarding. Bioware understand this, hence why we have games like Mass Effect and DA2.

Gaming is no longer the lair of those who lock themselves in the basement and play their favourite game to the point of collapsing. RPG - more so than any other genre - needs to adapt to this.

@bussinrounds: Witcher 2 says hi.

You can complete baldurs gate games in less than 1 hour. Proof below;

http://speeddemosarc...t/FullList.html

[diamondedge]

I can complete Morrowind in 5 minutes too. I can complete Deus ex in 1 hour and a half too.

Proof: You are clueless.

Modifié par diamondedge, 06 octobre 2011 - 10:16 .

[xkg]

Cyberarmy wrote...

diamondedge wrote...

I
Back to my point hi, Baldur's Gate called.

A person with reasonable amount of spare time and healthy interests nowadays simply cannot afford to play games like this any more, as brilliant as they stand in their genre. The concept of classic RPG IS outdated in modern gaming who focuses on casual player (not bad player, but player with limited time to play) simply becasue the process is very time consuming and often unrewarding. Bioware understand this, hence why we have games like Mass Effect and DA2.

Gaming is no longer the lair of those who lock themselves in the basement and play their favourite game to the point of collapsing. RPG - more so than any other genre - needs to adapt to this.

@bussinrounds: Witcher 2 says hi.

You can complete baldurs gate games in less than 1 hour. Proof below;

http://speeddemosarc...t/FullList.html

Wow really. You can complete them thx to cheating, glitches etc.I bet there is a way to mod to game so it skip right to the end. That could be done in maybe less than a minute.

Yeah great proof and great way to play and finish your game...

[SOLID_EVEREST]

I feel like the people that say that "the future" is better than the past probably never even played some of these classic RPGs. I'm in agreeance with Naughty, though, I don't like the D&D mechanics (I strongly prefer the Fallout S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system), but I can get over that because it still has true RPG mechanics such as: good storylines, stats building, and turn-based combat. Does every single RPG have to have these mechanics, I don't think so (VtM: B shows us it doesn't), but at least implement some stat system that makes sense.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Sorry but anything with less VA than Neverwinter Nights 2 (Standard) is boring and I can't play it anymore. yea, I gave up playing BG2 mid-summer.
Stats are good ... more, better!

Fifa 12 is supposed to be a good game. Don't spoil it.

Also stop that bullcrap. No serious game can be finished in an hour.
So, Everyone got his answer.

[xkg]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

I feel like the people that say that "the future" is better than the past probably never even played some of these classic RPGs. I'm in agreeance with Naughty, though, I don't like the D&D mechanics (I strongly prefer the Fallout S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system), but I can get over that because it still has true RPG mechanics such as: good storylines, stats building, and turn-based combat. Does every single RPG have to have these mechanics, I don't think so (VtM: B shows us it doesn't), but at least implement some stat system that makes sense.

Because they both are using well developed PnP RPG's systems.
Fallout - GURPS and VtMB - WoD(the Storyteller System).

TBH I've never seen any good RPG mechanics developed strictly for cRPG game.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

xkg wrote...

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

I feel like the people that say that "the future" is better than the past probably never even played some of these classic RPGs. I'm in agreeance with Naughty, though, I don't like the D&D mechanics (I strongly prefer the Fallout S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system), but I can get over that because it still has true RPG mechanics such as: good storylines, stats building, and turn-based combat. Does every single RPG have to have these mechanics, I don't think so (VtM: B shows us it doesn't), but at least implement some stat system that makes sense.

Because they both are using well developed PnP RPG's systems.
Fallout - GURPS and VtMB - WoD(the Storyteller System).

TBH I've never seen any good RPG mechanics developed strictly for cRPG game.

I know the developers were influnced heavily by the Gurps system in Fallout, but VtM: B I don't know if it used the actual combat system of WoD (I'm unsure of that because it uses Valve's Half Life engine). Anyways, I do know that the D&D system is just annoying.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

SPECIAL is actually a homebrew system Black Isle came up with when they couldn't get the rights to GURPS. It was originally intended, but they couldn't get it, so SPECIAL is what happened instead.

Then there's Darklands, which I felt always had a pretty awesome character system. Some info here.

[Merci357]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

I feel like the people that say that "the future" is better than the past probably never even played some of these classic RPGs.

I played (almost) every cRPG since the late 80's. And yes, I enjoyed them a lot - it was (and is) my favorite genre after all.
But just stop making assumptions why someone might enjoy this or that. I don't want games to go backwards - there is the so called "golden age" of cRPG's about a decade ago, but I very much prefer the current hybrid RPGs the likes of DE:HR, TW2 or AP compared to them. At least if I had to choose a game to play right now. Nostalgia get's you only so far.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Merci357 wrote...

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

I feel like the people that say that "the future" is better than the past probably never even played some of these classic RPGs.

I played (almost) every cRPG since the late 80's. And yes, I enjoyed them a lot - it was (and is) my favorite genre after all.
But just stop making assumptions why someone might enjoy this or that. I don't want games to go backwards - there is the so called "golden age" of cRPG's about a decade ago, but I very much prefer the current hybrid RPGs the likes of DE:HR, TW2 or AP compared to them. At least if I had to choose a game to play right now. Nostalgia get's you only so far.

Games don't go backwards, though, because they follow a certain ruleset. You can always change storylines, add some new features, and definitely update graphics in order to move foward. I have to say that the hybrid RPGs are fun, but they lack the depth of the classic RPG games

[Lotion Soronarr]

diamondedge wrote...

I also said:

and not all of us who like RPG games have 100 hours for often pointless exploration of some random dungeon.

Also, I'd appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. I said "dozens" of stats and "walls of text". I'm not arguing complete lack of either, but bringing them to reasonable levels. Side quests I didn't even mention.

Back to my point hi, Baldur's Gate called.

A person with reasonable amount of spare time and healthy interests nowadays simply cannot afford to play games like this any more, as brilliant as they stand in their genre. The concept of classic RPG IS outdated in modern gaming who focuses on casual player (not bad player, but player with limited time to play) simply becasue the process is very time consuming and often unrewarding. Bioware understand this, hence why we have games like Mass Effect and DA2.

Gaming is no longer the lair of those who lock themselves in the basement and play their favourite game to the point of collapsing. RPG - more so than any other genre - needs to adapt to this.

Again, you're assuming short, casula games are "modern" and everytihng esle is "outdated". You also assume that people these days don't have time.
I want to know who you are to talk on behalf of all those "poeple" and where do you get those statistics from?
Cause MMO's seem to be pretty popular, and people sink a LOT of time into those (to the point of collapsing), so they evidently DO have time.

Evidently, a long game isn't "outdated"..Nor is a longer game length somehow a flaw. This is redicolous to the max, and you clearly are taking smack.

There is no "modern gamer". It's a craptastic catch-all term that has no real meaning. Gamers differ in preferences, time availalbe and so on..

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 06 octobre 2011 - 01:36 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

diamondedge wrote...

I also said:

and not all of us who like RPG games have 100 hours for often pointless exploration of some random dungeon.

Also, I'd appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. I said "dozens" of stats and "walls of text". I'm not arguing complete lack of either, but bringing them to reasonable levels. Side quests I didn't even mention.

Back to my point hi, Baldur's Gate called.

A person with reasonable amount of spare time and healthy interests nowadays simply cannot afford to play games like this any more, as brilliant as they stand in their genre. The concept of classic RPG IS outdated in modern gaming who focuses on casual player (not bad player, but player with limited time to play) simply becasue the process is very time consuming and often unrewarding. Bioware understand this, hence why we have games like Mass Effect and DA2.

Gaming is no longer the lair of those who lock themselves in the basement and play their favourite game to the point of collapsing. RPG - more so than any other genre - needs to adapt to this.

Again, you're assuming short, casula games are "modern" and everytihng esle is "outdated". You also assume that people these days don't have time.
I want to know who you are to talk on behalf of all those "poeple" and where do you get those statistics from?
Cause MMO's seem to be pretty popular, and people sink a LOT of time into those (to the point of collapsing), so they evidently DO have time.

Evidently, a long game isn't "outdated"..Nor is a longer game length somehow a flaw. This is redicolous to the max, and you clearly are taking smack.

There is no "modern gamer". It's a craptastic catch-all term that has no real meaning. Gamers differ in preferences, time availalbe and so on..

Lotion is right. If anything people have more time now than before due to health and safety/working time regulations. People work in general less hours today than did 10 years ago where other than few specific industries most people back then worked far more hours on average than today due to regulation of work time to prevent stress and health problems by law and standards aswell as unions and such have come along way we have now. He is also right that people have plenty of free time to play MMOs yet they can't spend a fraction of that time playing a single player game? I'm sorry Diamond but your barking up the wrong tree. If 5 minute sessions is what your after go play Angry Birds or Tetris, or heaven forbid you play DAO or BG, PST or Diablo but in 5 minute sessions... You know using that magical thing called a save game.

There is no modern gamer, there is just gamers who like different things as it always has been and always will be. There are no less people these days who like cRPG than has been in past if anything there are more.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 06 octobre 2011 - 02:55 .

[billy the squid]

diamondedge wrote...

I also said:

and not all of us who like RPG games have 100 hours for often pointless exploration of some random dungeon.

Also, I'd appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. I said "dozens" of stats and "walls of text". I'm not arguing complete lack of either, but bringing them to reasonable levels. Side quests I didn't even mention.

Back to my point hi, Baldur's Gate called.

A person with reasonable amount of spare time and healthy interests nowadays simply cannot afford to play games like this any more, as brilliant as they stand in their genre. The concept of classic RPG IS outdated in modern gaming who focuses on casual player (not bad player, but player with limited time to play) simply becasue the process is very time consuming and often unrewarding. Bioware understand this, hence why we have games like Mass Effect and DA2.

Gaming is no longer the lair of those who lock themselves in the basement and play their favourite game to the point of collapsing. RPG - more so than any other genre - needs to adapt to this.

@bussinrounds: Witcher 2 says hi.

Riiiiiiiight, so the people who sink hundreds of hours into CoD and Battlefield  multiplayer games for weapon and perk progression are also a minority, because they're not casual? Or are those developers adapting to make the games an I win button for each match.

Or the focus of almost every sports game which contains a huge list of statistics and team management detail, personally I cand stand sports games, they drive me mad. So, I am going to demand they remove all statistical data and team management because I can't be bothered to take the time to learn how it works and I think it's boring, see, progression , the genre needs to adapt.

[Elementialomnicron]

Im mostly saddened by most games out there now, because back then i remember thrilling games like Zelda 2, or Dragon Warrior, or Double Dragon, or Contra.

I was one of those NES hardcore guy's who enjoyed a challenge and enjoyed a feeling of success after beating a game.

Most games nowadays i just dont feel the success,especially with things like COD, or Halo, or whatever.

I mean, i've tried them and they just dont give me any satisfaction.

its the same with console games too, which is why i am a PC gamer now.

Console games seem to love to go to the dark side of being a perpetual easy mode mini game-game.

I need the best of the best to grant me the feeling of success, like i completed a hard challenge and i am awesome.

that age...is forever lost, i believe.

[Chromie]

Zelda 2 is the worst of all official Zelda games imo.

[Elementialomnicron]

Ringo12 wrote...

Zelda 2 is the worst of all official Zelda games imo.

Have you ever played Zelda 2?

If yes: Then you do have reason to dislike it, but thats mostly because of the RPG element added.

If no: Then please, dont say things like that unless you actually go play the game.

[bussinrounds]

diamondedge wrote...

I also said:

and not all of us who like RPG games have 100 hours for often pointless exploration of some random dungeon.

Also, I'd appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. I said "dozens" of stats and "walls of text". I'm not arguing complete lack of either, but bringing them to reasonable levels. Side quests I didn't even mention.

Back to my point hi, Baldur's Gate called.

A person with reasonable amount of spare time and healthy interests nowadays simply cannot afford to play games like this any more, as brilliant as they stand in their genre. The concept of classic RPG IS outdated in modern gaming who focuses on casual player (not bad player, but player with limited time to play) simply becasue the process is very time consuming and often unrewarding. Bioware understand this, hence why we have games like Mass Effect and DA2.

Gaming is no longer the lair of those who lock themselves in the basement and play their favourite game to the point of collapsing. RPG - more so than any other genre - needs to adapt to this.

@bussinrounds: Witcher 2 says hi.

    I haven't played the Twitcher 2 yet and probably won't for a while. (too many classics to still play)  And with this whole thing about the older rpgs being too deep and big, and ppl not having enough time, like someone else stated if your looking for 10 min sessions or something, you should be playing other genres.  And if your just talking about them being too long in general, so the game would just take you longer to beat then, like months instead of weeks ,say.  I see that as a positive, not a negative.  I like getting more for my money, rather than less.

[Chromie]

Elementialomnicron wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Zelda 2 is the worst of all official Zelda games imo.

Have you ever played Zelda 2?

If yes: Then you do have reason to dislike it, but thats mostly because of the RPG element added.

If no: Then please, dont say things like that unless you actually go play the game.

Yes I have played it. I own every Zelda game and have the Gamecube disc with LoZ, Zelda, OoT and MM and the Wiiware LttP and all the gameboy, advance and ds games. So please don't tell me I don't have a reason to not like it.

[Il Divo]

Wasn't the appeal in Neverwinter Nights the multiplayer content anyway? After the disappointment that was the OC, that was the only reason I could think why anyone would bother with it.

[diamondedge]

Again, you're assuming short, casula games are "modern" and everytihng esle is "outdated". You also assume that people these days don't have time.
I want to know who you are to talk on behalf of all those "poeple" and where do you get those statistics from?
Cause MMO's seem to be pretty popular, and people sink a LOT of time into those (to the point of collapsing), so they evidently DO have time.

Evidently, a long game isn't "outdated"..Nor is a longer game length somehow a flaw. This is redicolous to the max, and you clearly are taking smack.

There is no "modern gamer". It's a craptastic catch-all term that has no real meaning. Gamers differ in preferences, time availalbe and so on..

I would really wish you read again what I wrote before replying.