11 réponses à ce sujet

[Quething]

When you go after Kelder, you fight pretty much the same thing you fight in every other ruin that uses the same damn map; undead and giant spiders. But the way the Magistrate's conversation puts so much emphasis on the "creatures" in the ruins - they're new, they're terrifying, he has no idea what they look like, even Kelder just calls them "creatures" etc etc in a way that simply doesn't make sense when any normal human in the world would just be like "oh there's a crapton of giant spiders" - makes me think that this was another casualty of the abbreviated dev cycle, and there was actually a plan for that quest to involve some other less universal and generic monster.

So... what do you guys think was originally going to be in there? It'd be really cool to get a dev in here to tell us the real answer, but I'm happy with wild baseless speculation too. Were they going to be deepstalkers? Bearskarns or some other Tainted-to-the-point-of-unrecognizability animal? Creepy maggoty Children? Some new nonhuman undead? A previously unseen variety of dragon?

[whykikyouwhy]

I figured it was a a difference of point of view. Hawke & company have seen their share of creatures - giant spiders, demons and the like, but the average Thedas citizen has not. So for the Magistrate and Kelder, both of whom probably led some semblence of a sheltered life in Kirkwall (Hightown proper, not diving deep into the mysteries of magic or the sinister nature of caves), such things are to be feared, and become much more threatening due to unfamiliarity.

[bleetman]

I had largely assumed they called them that due to the walking dead and spiders the size of warhounds not being something a city guard is going to see every day. But yes, you're right, you'd think they'd call them 'giant spiders'.

If it's connected to the Deep Roads rather than just hey let's use the Deep Roads enviornment model, and is both dangerous enough to wipe out a company of city guardsmen, I'd assume Darkspawn. It's been centuries since a Blight made its way to Kirkwall, I'd have to wonder if anyone there would recognize one by sight.

Modifié par bleetman, 06 octobre 2011 - 01:03 .

[thats1evildude]

The judge didn't see them personally, he just knew the ruins were full of monsters.

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I figured it was a a difference of point of view. Hawke & company have seen their share of creatures - giant spiders, demons and the like, but the average Thedas citizen has not. So for the Magistrate and Kelder, both of whom probably led some semblence of a sheltered life in Kirkwall (Hightown proper, not diving deep into the mysteries of magic or the sinister nature of caves), such things are to be feared, and become much more threatening due to unfamiliarity.

There's that, as well.

In general, though, DA2 suffers from a lack of variety in its monsters. I get a little weary constantly hacking through demons.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 06 octobre 2011 - 04:48 .

[Quething]

thats1evildude wrote...

The judge didn't see them personally, he just knew the ruins were full of monsters.

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I figured it was a a difference of point of view. Hawke & company have seen their share of creatures - giant spiders, demons and the like, but the average Thedas citizen has not. So for the Magistrate and Kelder, both of whom probably led some semblence of a sheltered life in Kirkwall (Hightown proper, not diving deep into the mysteries of magic or the sinister nature of caves), such things are to be feared, and become much more threatening due to unfamiliarity.

There's that, as well.

If you're a guardsman sent out to the ruins, and you get attacked by giant spiders, are you going to run back to the city and go "creatures killed everyone! Creatures, horrible creatures!" or are you going to go "Andraste's mercy! In the ruins, these huge spiders, spiders the size of horses, they ripped Johnson to pieces!"

You ask the Magister what kind of creatures and he says "I don't know what they look like, I've never seen one." Surely if they were meant to be giant spiders he would say "I don't know, like spiders but really big, I suppose."

Note also that Jansen has no trouble describing giant spiders or groaning undead to you when you visit him (or by messenger to Hubert, if you talk to Hubert for rumors before doing the mine quests), and he can't be expected to have any more experience or savvy with such things than the average Kirkwall guard.

Even beyond that, I just don't buy it. The dialog just puts too much empahsis on the nature of the monsters (you don't get to sit around and ask Jansen to describe the various mine invaders, or quiz Marethari about what you'll find up Sundermount) for it not to have been some kind of relevant plot item at some point in development. Conservation of detail, y'know? If it was meant to be "just another pit full of spiders" why waste the time and disk space on meaningless dialog about their unusual nature?

Darkspawn seems like a logical alternative. Maybe even throw some genlocks in there...

In general, though, DA2 suffers from a lack of variety in its monsters. I get a little weary constantly hacking through demons.

Back when I still hoped we might get a toolset, I had vague hopes of building a shapeshifting specialization back into the game. Then it occurred to me that there actually weren't any models to use with it, and I'd end up giving the players a choice between "dragon" and "mabari."

[thats1evildude]

Quething wrote...

If it was meant to be "just another pit
full of spiders" why waste the time and disk space on meaningless dialog
about their unusual nature?

It was just one or two lines of dialogue. Hardly that significant.

Quething wrote...

Back when I still hoped we might get a toolset, I had vague hopes of building a shapeshifting specialization back into the game. Then it occurred to me that there actually weren't any models to use with it, and I'd end up giving the players a choice between "dragon" and "mabari."

Other than re-designed monsters, the "new" creature that Dragon Age 2 added to the universe was the Rock Wraith, as both the Harvester and the Varterral popped up in Golems of Amgarrak and Witch Hunt. And while the Rock Wraiths are fairly cool, they're only encountered in one part of the game. The rest of the time, we're up to our armpits in demons.

Though I'm not keen to return to the days of stabbing poor wolves and bears to death (SMOKEY NOOOOO!). I wouldn't mind  fighting a werewolf or a sylvan once in a while.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 06 octobre 2011 - 05:18 .

[bleetman]

Actually, I've changed my mind. In the original uncut version, a cornered and desperate Kelder had used forbidden magics to shackle assorted dairy products to his person and transformed into the Cheddarster.

Yep.

Modifié par bleetman, 06 octobre 2011 - 05:07 .

[Quething]

thats1evildude wrote...

It was just one or two lines of dialogue. Hardly that significant.

One or two lines of dialog in a game that routinely gives you a maximum of six to ten per conversation, though. (Well, exchange. They're not even really conversations at that point.)

Man, I would have loved to see sylvans prowling around Sundermount. Or giant crabs along the Wounded Coast Sorry, former WoW addict moment there.

bleetman wrote...

Actually, I've changed my mind. In the original uncut version, a cornered and desperate Kelder had used forbidden magics to shackle assorted dairy products to his person and transformed into the Cheddarster.

Yep.

Bleet, this is crazy talk. Cheese is holy and beloved of Andraste, and could never be used for foul magics.

[thats1evildude]

Quething wrote...

Man, I would have loved to see sylvans prowling around Sundermount. Or giant crabs along the Wounded Coast Sorry, former WoW addict moment there.

I ran into a couple of mudcrabs not long ago. Annoying creatures.

Quething wrote...

Bleet, this is crazy talk. Cheese is holy and beloved of Andraste, and could never be used for foul magics.

i wouldn't mind encountering a cheese mage. You know, for variety.

[whykikyouwhy]

Quething wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Actually, I've changed my mind. In the original uncut version, a cornered and desperate Kelder had used forbidden magics to shackle assorted dairy products to his person and transformed into the Cheddarster.

Yep.

Bleet, this is crazy talk. Cheese is holy and beloved of Andraste, and could never be used for foul magics.

Tainted cheese. No one likes to talk about it, but it happens...has happened. It's the source of all the evil, vileness and woe in Kirkwall.

I dub thee Amgeforn.

[bleetman]

Quething wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Actually, I've changed my mind. In the original uncut version, a cornered and desperate Kelder had used forbidden magics to shackle assorted dairy products to his person and transformed into the Cheddarster.

Yep.

Bleet, this is crazy talk. Cheese is holy and beloved of Andraste, and could never be used for foul magics.

"Can good exist without evil? Can there be light without dark? And if that answer is no, could it be that if this artifact exists, its polar opposite must also exist?"